UK National Debt vs US National Debt

Hi all, I'm trying to get around some figures for UK national debt but I'm just coming up with some discrepancies that I could do with someone explaining to me.
Whenever you see a news article or a TV newscast it goes on about how the UK national Debt is between 600 billion and 1.3 trillion although when I look over at the national debt records on Wikipedia it’s listed at 10 Trillion (en.wikipedia.org...)

US : $13,703,567 million, UK : $10,450,000

Now I do know that the pound against the dollar isn’t that low so can someone just quickly explain to me the discrepancy between the two? I’ve had my thoughts that the government and media are just using spin and the metric system to make the figures appear lower (UK Billion = 1,000,000 million, US Billion = 1000 million)

How is it that everyone is going on about the debt in the US when he in the UK we have almost as much debt but 5 times less the population, hardly any resources and a miniscule amount of land?

Why isn’t the media correlating the debt figures correctly when using the UK and US debt in the same sentence, yes the UK is 10 trillion dollars in debt!

Somebody please explain.

there is no way in hell that the uk are 10 trillion in debt, no chance at all, your also quoteing wikipedia which is a big no no.

I thought it was around 1.5 trillion...definetly not 10 trillion lol

Two lines

reply to post by Europe


I call Metric Spin, if we are in that much debt we are screwed, here is another link to similar information. The government has screwed us and we are going to pay big time!!!

www.indexmundi.com...

Our debt to GDP ration is 370%!!!!!!!!

[edit on 27/11/2008 by spitefulgod]

You are forgetting that we are still paying for 2 world wars as well, on top of any other debts we may have.

reply to post by Wotan


So between us and the US we have nearly half the worlds total debt and we are in recession.

Just this week
Woolworths & MFI have gone into administration
Homebase & Argos have has massive losses and they are on the way out

When businesses fail the lost tax will have to be picked up by us, I'm absolutely dreading the tax hikes that are coming in the next 5 years.

[edit on 27/11/2008 by spitefulgod]

Double Post

[edit on 27/11/2008 by spitefulgod]

We paid off WW2 debt in 2006 did we not?

Two lines

so assuming "we the people" are ultimately the ones paying of our countries debts...

id be interested to see how much debt a child born today, automatically inherits...

My opinion on why the U.K stats look worse...
Look at that dear old lady of the throne... She costs them loads...

Originally posted by Zeus187
so assuming "we the people" are ultimately the ones paying of our countries debts...

id be interested to see how much debt a child born today, automatically inherits...

My opinion on why the U.K stats look worse...
Look at that dear old lady of the throne... She costs them loads...

Actually, the Queen costs each taxpayer 64p each per year. Its the lot in Government that costs us taxpayers with some of their hairbrained schemes and stupid ideas - One only has to look at the so-called IT solutions that they have tried to install in Government Departments that has cost the taxpayers millions and are still not up and running.

reply to post by Zeus187


reply to post by Zeus187


U.S. debt per person : $42,343
U.K. debt per person : $189,855

The Queen costs the people 64p per year per person

64p a year per person??
i pay taxes in NZ, im pretty sure she costs me more than that per year...

I don’t really understand economics all that well but the difference could be in whether you’re talking about internal or external debt could it not? If I understand things correctly government borrowing is solely within the UK economy so would come under internal debt which would be around £600bn whereas our external debt (money owed by government and public to entities outside the UK economy) is £10 trillion. However I believe that this £10 trillion would be offset by debts owed to the UK so wouldn’t all have to be recouped by tax payers.

That of course could be total rubbish.


Zeus187,

I'm pretty sure you don't pay anything for her. The governor general on the other hand...

[edit on 27-11-2008 by Mike_A]

Interesting thread. It's only because ATS is a US-based site that US debt and economic troubles are emphasized. I'm afraid to say it, but I believe we here in the UK are in more dire straits than anyone in the world. Like the OP said, we have less resources. We have also just become the most densely populated major European country. Besides all that, look at the strength of the pound - it's non-existent. I'm just waiting for it to drop far enough that our government buys us into the Euro, thus dimishing the pound-based wealth and increasing the pound-based debt.

Originally posted by spitefulgod
Hi all, I'm trying to get around some figures for UK national debt but I'm just coming up with some discrepancies that I could do with someone explaining to me.
Whenever you see a news article or a TV newscast it goes on about how the UK national Debt is between 600 billion and 1.3 trillion although when I look over at the national debt records on Wikipedia it’s listed at 10 Trillion (en.wikipedia.org...)

You have been curious about the UK national debt and consulted Wiki. But the Wiki figures refer to the external debt, which is not the same as the national debt, even though both terms are related in what they describe.

Here is the difference:

External debt

The amount that a country owes to foreigners, including the debts of both the country's government and its private sector.


National Debt

Although this term looks like it should mean the amount that a country owes to foreigners, in practice it is used instead to refer to the amount that a nation's government owes to anybody, including its own citizens. Thus it is the total of a national government's outstanding government bonds.

From the above, you can see the principle difference that separates both terms. The external debt refers to both the government and the private financial obligations to the lenders abroad, and it includes the trade deficit among other things, for example. The national debt is created solely by the government borrowing money from anyone.

That means the external debt is usually larger then the national debt

& for whatever reason I can't fathem, the UK pays the EU £50-60 Billion each year & gets nothing in return.

This goverment is beyond a joke, Gordon Brown is trying to act like a messiah of sorts to get us out of debt.. He was the one that got us in it in the first place when he was the chancellor

If the UK were in that much debt in relation to its GDP, wouldn't the EU be fining the absolute sh*t out of them?

Its one of the main clauses in the EU, countries must keep their books balanced to within +5% of their spending/income, if they are over 5% for more than three years, the EU commission fines them until they are back within normal parameters.

I only know this because Ireland is at risk of receiving fines in 2011 if the Government doesn't pull their thumbs out.

There is also the matter that the UK is not completely immersed in all things EU, maybe that rule does not apply.

$10 trillion/£5 trillion does seem like a excessively large amount for a country of 60 odd million.