The Mystery of the lost Phobos Satellite

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by Nox Vulpes

 

The phobos probe also caught 'Thing' casting this shadow on the surface of mars....

that shadow is HUGE!!!!
that spaceship must be a couple kilometers long atleast!

reply to post by SuperSlovak


Yessir it is huge.

And if you'd believe some of the people here, they'd have you think it was cast by a lack of data in the imaging system

An an elongated segment of missing data casting shadow on the surface of Mars? I LOL at this theory.

*Notice how the member with the 'explanation' - the one using the old 'missing data' excuse - conveniently omitted this piece of evidence?

Coincidence? I think not...

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by SuperSlovak

 

Yessir it is huge.

And if you'd believe some of the people here, they'd have you think it was cast by a lack of data in the imaging system

An an elongated segment of missing data casting shadow on the surface of Mars? I LOL at this theory.

*Notice how the member with the 'explanation' - the one using the old 'missing data' excuse - conveniently omitted this piece of evidence?

Coincidence? I think not...

First of all, i didn't omit anything: I decide when to post, where to post, what to post and how to post. By the way, are you able to provide the source and the link to the ORIGINAL IMAGE of the shadow? It's not my bad if you IGNORE how that type of imageering works: since you are so trained and since you even LOL at my explanation, would you care to let us know what do you think is the white long object in question? Please provide us with some better explanation than mine for THAT frame and for ALL the other frames of the series: if you think i'm wrong, then PROVE it.
And how do you know what I think is the shadow? Are you some mind reader? Have you ever seen Phobos' shadow being cast on Mars' surface? (Phobos is also a martian Moon for your information, because of course you IGNORE it):
here you go, from two different sources and spacecrafts:

Image caption:

Martian Solar Eclipses
The shadow of the martian moon, Phobos, is captured here by the Mars Global Surveyor wide angle camera. Frequent solar eclipses are caused by the passage of Phobos between Mars and the Sun. The shadow of Phobos, the elliptical feature at the center of each frame, is seen as it was cast upon western Xanthe Terra. Martian eclipses are thousands of times more common than eclipses on Earth, occurring a few times a day whenever Phobos passes over the planet's sunlit side. From left to right, the three images show wide angle red, blue and color composite views. The dark spots seen on three crater floors are probably small fields of dark sand dunes.

starlite.jpl.nasa.gov...

Here you can find a high resolution of another image, this one

www.dlr.de...
Image caption:

On November 10, 2005, Mars Express spotted the shadow of Phobos crossing the surface of Mars. The shadow is smeared because both Phobos and Mars Express were moving as the image was taken over the course of several seconds. Mars Express' High Resolution Stereo Camera (HRSC) is a "pushbroom" style imager, which captures long image strips along Mars' surface one line at a time as the orbiter moves from south to north at 12,600 kilometers per hour (7,800 miles per hour). With each line advanced by HRSC from bottom to top, Phobos' shadow had shifted slightly from west to east at 7,200 kilometers per hour (4,500 miles per hour). The shadow is also darker at the center than the middle because, as seen from the surface of Mars, Phobos' diameter is much smaller than the disk of the Sun. Source Credit: ESA / DLR / FU Berlin (G. Neukum)

www.esa.int...
www.planetary.org...

The Jan/Feb 1993 issue of the Planetary Society's The Planetary Report contains a brief note written by A.S. Selivanov and U.M. Gektin of the Institute of Space Device Engineering, Moscow, on the mysterious end of Phobos 2. In the Question/Answer section on page 20, it says ):

Q:

Last year I noticed more than one mention in the media of a 'mystery object' that appeared in the last images returned by the Russian spacecraft Phobos 2. It was suggested that aliens were responsible for the object and perhaps even for the demise of the mission. What actually happened?

-Len Seymour, Elko, Nevada

A:

The "mystery object" was actually the shadow of one of Mars' moons. The spacecraft Phobos 2 reached Mars orbit and began to approach the martian satellite Phobos in February 1989. In the middle of March, Phobos and the spacecraft were several hundred meters apart, and they moved synchronously in the same orbit. At that time there were several surveys of the martian surface by the Termoscan equipment on board the spacecraft. The survey of the martian surface was made with a constant Sun-to-spacecraft orientation. The centerline of the image is in the anti-Sun direction to an accuracy of one to two scan lines. Since the spacecraft was near Phobos and the Sun-Phobos directions was approximately the same as the Sun-spacecraft direction, the Phobos shadow on the Mars surface can be seen in the Termoscan field of view. The length of this shadow was about 21 kilometers (13 miles). Termoscan's field of view on the martian surface was 650 kilometers (400 miles) wide, and the resolution was 1.8 kilometers (about 1 mile). The moonlet's shadow came into Termoscan's field of view when the spacecraft was 200 kilometers (about 120 miles) away from Phobos. At this point the termoscan instrument was pointed at Mars' surface in the same direction as the Sun's rays. The factors that influenced the form and dimensions of the shadow included Phobos' orientation (Phobos has an irregular shape); distortion from Mars' surface curvature, especially near the planet's limb (the edge of its disk as seen from the Phobos spacecraft); and the dispersion of radiation and other atmospheric processes.
Another factor -- and probably a more important one -- was deviation of the axis caused by the spacecraft's instability. The spacecraft's axis moved about 40 minutes of arc during the experiments.
If the spacecraft's orientation and the distance from it to Phobos had been
perfectly constant, Phobos' shadow would have been an even line. But because of the deviation of the spacecraft's axis, Termoscan's lines moved ahead of the shadow or dropped behind it as the shadow moved on the planet's surface. The scanning line overtook the shadow, going through its center, then passed it .
This process caused 250-to-300-kilometer (155-185-mile) motion on the Mars surface in the direction of motion, and the shadow was elliptically stretched in the resulting picture.

www.geocities.com...


Next time, think TWICE before blaming someone for something that doesn't exist, especially when your knowledge in the topic being discussed is ZERO: perhaps you will avoid some poor figure like this one.
Thank you for your post.


[edit on 27/11/2008 by internos]

reply to post by Canadianduder


Wow , i cannot believe you accused internos of saying the image malfunction caused the shadow on Mars...

from what i have read, that theory was never even brought up and i think you owe internos an apology and more

******************************************************************

reply to internos...

Excellent job on all the information you have provided internos and the animation of the photo's was very impressive :



[edit on 27-11-2008 by easynow]

Here are some more picture of the "thing" casting shadow on thr asurface of Mars. Some will claim it is just a moon of mars, but they will also tell you that you didn't see anything in the Russian Phobos Image either

You really have to use discernment on this one - there many who will try to mislead you in the search for the truth.

Cigar Shaped Shadow - clearly from Cigar shaped object.


*Notice how elongated it is. Who could have made such a massive spacecraft - and why...


*One thing is for sure, there are people with an interest in stopping us from finding out just what this "thing" really is. I have no doubt some of them are here, now. Quite possibly even reading these very words.

Pay no mind to these 'types'... they don't want you to find the truth. Deny ignorance.


[edit on 27-11-2008 by Canadianduder]

reply to post by Canadianduder

but they will also tell you that you didn't see anything in the Russian Phobos Image either

do tell us what you see in the photo that we are missing ?

or are you just making statements here to cause trouble ?

Cigar Shaped Shadow - clearly from Cigar shaped object.

can you show us in detail where the sun and the object were at the time to make this perfect shadow replica ? if that is your theory then show us your evidence to back it up.

*One thing is for sure, there are people with an interest in stopping us from finding out just what this "thing" really is. I have no doubt some of them are here, now. Quite possibly even reading these very words.

Pay no mind to these 'types'... they don't want you to find the truth. Deny ignorance.

it seems your implying that there was another object besides Phobos that is making the shadow.

do you have any evidence to support your theory that this "thing" even exists ?

i really find your attitude quite fascinating since you have shown nothing as far as evidence to support your accusations.

we all want the truth and to deny ignorance but if you are going to imply that there are people here trying to keep you from finding this truth you are truly a confused individual and are you are embracing ignorance.

reply to post by easynow


Look man. I just got here. Give it a rest already.

Please stop attacking me and my ideas. They are just ideas you know - thoughts I shared with you. I guess that was a mistake....

You know what I just won't post in your thread anymore. Thanks for putting words in my mouth and thanks for accusing me of attacking people. Thank you for that. You have made my day.

Originally posted by Canadianduder
reply to post by easynow

 

Look man. I just got here. Give it a rest already.

Please stop attacking me and my ideas. They are just ideas you know - thoughts I shared with you. I guess that was a mistake....

You know what I just won't post in your thread anymore. Thanks for putting words in my mouth and thanks for accusing me of attacking people. Thank you for that. You have made my day.

nothing wrong with sharing your thoughts and opinions but you have implied that internos was leading everyone down the wrong path.

internos is one of the smartest and most knowledgible person on these type of subjects that i have seen anywhere and if you would have approached your presentation of your ideas differently i am quite sure everyone would have enjoyed engaging you in the discussion.

also it's not my thread and you can do whatever you like

Ok please keep in mind Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

Lets try and keep to the facts and keep to the topic and hand, Bickering solves nothing,

Thank you,

Asala

Hey guys, after reading page two I feel like I have some how missed something here. From what I feel I have gathered, heres what I have to say.


It does make sense that the moon can cast the shadow, my only obvious problem with that though, is the shape of the shadow does not reflect a 'circular' shape being shadowed. Yes I know Phobos is very mis-shapen, but it could NEVER be mistaken for cigar shaped.

Now my other issue is with the shadows first sent back by phobos two. The scientists did NOT even debate that what they were seeing was a shadow. As I mentioned earlier, people wildly speculated, but to the scientists and their level-headed observation, a shadow was the only possibility because elements of the background appeared to show through it.

So, it's agreed that its a shadow. Now, (forgive me if I am wrong, cause I am trying to catch up with this thread) but Internos, your claiming this is obviously a shadow of the moon Phobos.

Well, if thats the case, why wouldn't the scientists have immediately drawn that conclusion? Doesn't it seem appropriate that the experts guiding the mission would instantly understand what was happening?

Instead, it seems, the scientists agreed it was a shadow, agreed it was no extraterrestrial shuttle on the surface of mars, but what they couldn't agree on, was the cause of the shadow.

BUT HOW? If it truly were just the shadow of the moon the scientists wouldn't have even let a debate take place. they simply would have squashed it.

Again, forgive me for being out of touch with the thread, but I also don't see how a camera anomaly could have created the structure in the final image sent by the orbiter.


*Food for thought* If for arguments sake, it is the shadow of the cigar shaped craft near the moonlet phobos, then where is phobos shadow in the pictures? And vice versa, if you claim one or the other, then where is the other?

And for anyone who hasn't, seriously check out the 7 minute video which explains the series of events better, I linked to it in page one of this thread.


EDIT: I think we may have a difference in images that people are refering to. In the images posted by internos, that show the shadow, those appear to very circular in nature, and not cigar shaped like the original phobos 2 pictures which were sent back before its disappearance. Those photos he has posted seem to obviously reflect a shadow of the moon.

But, my opinion shifts when I see the shadows originally sent back which show a much more elongated shadow which appears to be a shadow of something else.

It's worth noting tho, that if the lightsource is at a low enough point against the object casting the shadow, practically any shape can be cast as an elongated shadow, but the nice round edges seem to disagree with that thought process.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by king9072]

We have so many wonderfull programs today doing all kinds of things. Can we punch in the date (date stamps from the pictures) in a program of some kind and see where the moons positions is compared to Mars and see where the shadow would hit ruffly?? and check the data towards the pics maybe?

--
D

reply to post by king9072


They are all extremely serious questions:
let's divide the Phobos incident in three parts before we all get crazy
Two images, returned to earth, and a STRANGE series of malfunctions.
Regarding the images, we have two different ones:
the first one, is this, presented by Marina Popovich:

THIS is the image in the OP: Mars is NOT even visible in this one: it has all the classic indications of missing data:

here, this shot speaks by itself:

I STATE that this is the results of missing data, i've already explained why, period. IF anyone has something to argue with it, then he/she's free to do it, BUT don't blame me to spread disinfo, because it's NOT fair.

The second image is the one of a shadow being cast on Mars:
now this was more complicated, because a shadow can be a shadow of anything, alien spacecrafts included, WHO really knows?
Anyway, martian eclipses are thousands of times more common than eclipses on Earth, occurring a few times a day whenever Phobos passes over the planet's sunlit side: that would mean that basically we are talking about some event way less rare than evey ordinary sunrise and sunset on earth. The differences between our moon and Phobos, made the rest.
The photo in question is this one,

and some ordinay photos of Phobo's shadow are these ones:



Since on The Planetary Report, published a brief note written by A.S. Selivanov and U.M. Gektin of the Institute of Space Device Engineering, Moscow, on the mysterious end of Phobos 2 that looks to be compelling,
see
here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
and here
www.geocities.com...
may i ask what is the problem with that explanation? It's like to say:
"Hey, look: they told me that our Moon is rounded, but i see another shape"


I've believed in the genuinity of both photograps for some LONG time, and my conclusion is that the first one IS the result of missing data, the second one is likely Phobo's shadow, but since i wasn't on Mars that day I can't confirm it.
Anyway, it's SAD that we're focusing on them, because the REAL conspiracy is in the END of Phobos 2: some failures occurred in some unexpected way: but really, everyone shoud read about it before even touching the topic, IMHO.


[edit on 27/11/2008 by internos]

reply to post by internos


You make a very good point. Heres my only problem with it.

If it as you claimed just missing data. Why did the russians not say anything when this first happened? Why did they skip the international conference held shortly after the incident? And why did it take years before a Russian Colonel finally released the famous last photo?


What always strikes me in every conspiracy theory is that people always claim that the answers to the mysteries are so simple, cut and dry, black and white and that everything has a logical, simple explaination. But the fact remains that yet another government did its best to surpress a certain piece of information, now why would they do that if the answer was so simple?

If it were just missing data, why would they not attend the conference and after that point, admit publicly that "hey, we lost phobos 2, we don't know exactly why, heres the last photo it sent back, notice the missing data at the bottom"

Instead, like every other conspiracy in history (so it seems :p ) powers that be, suppress or hide a piece of information which is repeatedly (at a later point) explained away - in the most basic, simple way.

Additionally, (apologies if you have answered this already Int) but, why if its missing data, does it appear to change its size in relation to the resolution of the photo, appearing larger then smaller in different phots.

Originally posted by king9072

If it were just missing data, why would they not attend the conference and after that point, admit publicly that "hey, we lost phobos 2, we don't know exactly why, heres the last photo it sent back, notice the missing data at the bottom"

Perhaps they lost Phobos 2 because they messed up big time, and really didn't want to talk about it?

As far as I know they had already lost Phobos 1 because somebody messed up, so they wouldn't excactly look like geniouses if they had to admit that they did it again...

Just a thought.

Originally posted by king9072
reply to post by internos

 

You make a very good point. Heres my only problem with it.

If it as you claimed just missing data. Why did the russians not say anything when this first happened? Why did they skip the international conference held shortly after the incident? And why did it take years before a Russian Colonel finally released the famous last photo?


What always strikes me in every conspiracy theory is that people always claim that the answers to the mysteries are so simple, cut and dry, black and white and that everything has a logical, simple explaination. But the fact remains that yet another government did its best to surpress a certain piece of information, now why would they do that if the answer was so simple?

Simple? NO, it's not. I've thought ten times before posting in this thread because i was aware that it would have been difficult: but to escape is never a good solution. Well let me tell you one thing now: there's a clue that seems to confirm what you say, but i have to ask you to provide some reference regarding this Colonel(?) releasing the images with such a delay (NOT ufologic websites, official ones): if you cannot, i will try to help: we have six russian speaking fella members: they will help us.
Anyway, here:

Read date and time:
14:57:17... right?
now, go here and find it
www.planetary.org...
THAT photo is missing. My problem is the following;

the chances to get some straight line perfectly parallel to some edge are 4 over 360:

we have a series of shots, taken right before the alleged "missing photo" that look suspiciously identical:

we have shots like this one,

and this one

how comes that despite Phobos 2 was travelling (and we're NOT talking about some mile) the alleged spcecraft stucks in its position, just moving vertically? And how do you explain all the other horizontal lines? All spacecrafts?

If it were just missing data, why would they not attend the conference and after that point, admit publicly that "hey, we lost phobos 2, we don't know exactly why, heres the last photo it sent back, notice the missing data at the bottom"

Instead, like every other conspiracy in history (so it seems :p ) powers that be, suppress or hide a piece of information which is repeatedly (at a later point) explained away - in the most basic, simple way.

Additionally, (apologies if you have answered this already Int) but, why if its missing data, does it appear to change its size in relation to the resolution of the photo, appearing larger then smaller in different phots.

Trust me: i want the truth: check my profile and you will find out that i DO believe in the existence of some ALIEN intelligent form of life. But this doesn't mean that i'm ready to believe to everything

reply to post by internos


Was never trying to discredit your info, those were just the questions that arose from our debate.

The colonel (pronounced, kernel) was the only person to ever release the famous last photo and it was done at the Russian Consulate in San Fran, but it wasn't held until some years after the incident. She's the one seen holding the famous photo, and as for you saying to find the image. I don't believe the Russians ever 'officially' released it, rather it was done through this lady.

The only debate left is if the photo is in fact genuine, but it seems to be generally agreed that it is genuine.

And as I said, sometimes we don't know why something has happened, who was behind it, or why, but the resulting situation usually shows who has hidden something or has been misleading (as obvious with 911). Some facts may not ever be proven, but being able to show that deception has been used, highlights the possibility that there is more to the situation than what appears.

Thats the only reason why I felt so 'onto' this subject. It just seemed too suspicious.

The russians don't release the photo saying that "something that should not have been there... was", then skip conferences, and don't ever officially release the photo. Until an ex-military official holds a press conference to display the picture. So it just seems all too suspicious.

It reminds me of Roswell, where at first they say "its an alien flying disk", then suddenly recount saying that it's simply a weather balloon, then change back to their original story.


If things are so cut and dry with logical explanations, how come stories ALWAYS seem to vary (as with any con. theor.)?

My 2 cents, good discussion Internos, you've been a worthy adversary

(I haven't been fact checking as I wrote this, please forgive any mis-quotes or information thats slightly off as I have written this post completely off memory)

[edit on 27-11-2008 by king9072]

even if the shadow can be explained by being cast by one of the moons...
you still have that huge cylinder floating around.
I hope its aliens. show us a better world please.

I think a couple of posters were leading up to it, but I will clarify.

What if the data drop outs were added afterwards to discredit it that way? As a matter of fact, any picture of a UFO could be discredited with only the tiniest fragment of doubt.

However, Interno's is most likely right, that is of course if the glitches were genuine, which is likely.

Marina Popovich is indeed a colonel, retired.
en.wikipedia.org...

imho, internos is correct - the focus should be
on how phobos 2 ended, not on the pictures
presented here which appear to only lack data...

also, it is interesting that phobos 1 ended
'accidentally' due to an operator error.

also, from other pictures of phobos
it seems that the "shadow" object
discussed here doesn't appear to fit
a known picture of phobos's shadow on
mars surface. both pictures differ.
yes, angles could differ but that i suppose
can be easily calculated by NASA.

arc.iki.rssi.ru...
see the 6th picture from top down.