Miami judge rules against Florida gay adoption ban

Originally posted by sos37
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

There are points in Leo's post that you're just dismissing without giving any rational thought. For example, there are times when a young girl needs a mother figure to talk to - the whole "from my experience as a little girl" thing. How is she supposed to get that with two male parents raising her? Same for a boy being raised by two females. How does a household that lacks one of the two necessary parental components (male + female) make for a balanced environment? That is a legitimate concern that should not be dismissed lightly.

Also a legitimate concern is the teasing that will happen in school, although nowadays kids are teased for any sort of parents - fat parents, weird parents, jailed parents, boring parents or even no parents at all. If the kids appear vulnerable the other kids will pick on them. The answer is to teach them to stand up for themselves. A martial arts class wouldn't hurt, either. Sometimes the antagonist just needs a single punch in the face to shut them and their crowd down.

Those are fine points to bring up.....but, if you bring them up in regards to gay couples raising children, then you must have a problem with single parent households (especially ones where the other parent has little to no role in the childs life). It is a legitimate concern, right? Because that "normal" family unit is not present and it can harm the child....right?

Doesn't add up.

As for the teasing, well, that's going to happen in almost any circumstance with kids. Like you said, they need to be taught to stand up for themselves.

A loving family is just that: a loving family. It can be a Mom and Dad, just a Mom or a Dad, either and grandparents, or two Moms or two Dads. It is the love that matters....not who makes up the family.

reply to post by sos37


To be honest SOS, I believe it takes a village regardless.


Adopted children especially have issues anyhow because they can't relate their genetic makeup and traits with those around them. So they rely heavily on love.

Myself, I had huge issues relating to my parents. It wasn't until I was in my 30's and met other family members who I had never seen that I was able to relate to other people in the family.

Now my son is very much like me, and I can easily relate to him. I'm so blessed that he has a father who understands him, which I never really had.

I guess my point is that the "kids in gay families are missing something" doesn't wash much with me as kids in normal families are missing something too. I think it's just the hazard of the "single family myth".

It takes a village, or at least an extended family to raise a child. If a child has that, then no amount of teasing at school will even matter. Besides, kids are teased ruthlessly anyway.

And yes, I'd agree that a strategicially placed punch in some situations is what is required to stop teasing. Although, I don't advocate violence, sometimes and in some neighborhoods, it's the only thing which can stop the heckling.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by HunkaHunka]

Originally posted by deadline527
In my opinion there is a reason that reproduction is something only a male and female are able to do. What that reason is, I'm not sure. But, when more gay families start adopting and the children grow up with severe mental issues, it will be too late.

We as a species have been messing with nature way too much in the last decade. GM foods, Weather manipulation, Animal/Human hybrids, and now.. Male/Male parenting.

Only time will tell, but in my opinion I think we are dooming these children to a life of confusion from the start. This will make them question themselves and their own feelings towards the opposite sex, when their parents obviously are different.

Nature has its reasons, and soon enough we will see why. I just feel bad for the children who are going to be the ones that make us realize that this is wrong.

I have to agree with you Deadline, If this was the norm since the beginning (speaking of being gay).........Who would reproduce?

reply to post by rikk7111


Well that's kinda the whole thing though. It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. Homosexuality occurs naturally in many species. Although I do think each human individual has sexual orientations that are caused by both nature and nurture, given my understanding of the principles of Emergence I think that it might also be a sociological response at the macro level.

Either way, it doesn't really matter what causes it, it's enough to say that it's not only been natural throughout history, in some societies, such as greece, it has also been very accepted and integrated into society.

Greece, especially was an interesting version because one individual would appear to act both heterosexually and homosexually.



[edit on 25-11-2008 by HunkaHunka]

This recent election has made me rethink my previous thoughts on democracy and how truly flawed it really is. People have voted against women having rights, people of color having rights, and now gay people having rights. A man unheard of 3 years ago is now president. Democracy is flawed.

[edit on 25-11-2008 by RetinoidReceptor]

Go Miami judge!

homophobia is ignorant, we should be denying ignorance, etc.

Originally posted by rikk7111

Originally posted by deadline527
In my opinion there is a reason that reproduction is something only a male and female are able to do. What that reason is, I'm not sure. But, when more gay families start adopting and the children grow up with severe mental issues, it will be too late.

We as a species have been messing with nature way too much in the last decade. GM foods, Weather manipulation, Animal/Human hybrids, and now.. Male/Male parenting.

Only time will tell, but in my opinion I think we are dooming these children to a life of confusion from the start. This will make them question themselves and their own feelings towards the opposite sex, when their parents obviously are different.

Nature has its reasons, and soon enough we will see why. I just feel bad for the children who are going to be the ones that make us realize that this is wrong.

I have to agree with you Deadline, If this was the norm since the beginning (speaking of being gay).........Who would reproduce?

You can not infulence someone to be gay. You are born that way. Despite the efforts of my straight parents flaunting their straight lifestyle, I still ended up liking men. I was never confused.

There will always be straight people having straight and gay kids. Both are natural.

Fact is.. Straight people make the gay kids. Take your grievance up with them.

reply to post by deadline527

In my opinion there is a reason that reproduction is something only a male and female are able to do. What that reason is, I'm not sure. But, when more gay families start adopting and the children grow up with severe mental issues, it will be too late.

Too late for what? I can tell you My parents were straight and they nearly killed me I barely escape alive I was beaten almost every day for nothing ….. I got away from them when I was fourteen years old with the help of family court. when I ripe my shirt off, and showed my back to the judge he gasps! I had whipped marks, slashes, blisters, and heavy bruising all over my back. My mother and father were in the courtroom when I did this, my mother jumped out of her seat and scream at the judge, that I beat myself for attention! The judge asks me who did this to you son and I turn around and pointed to both of my parents and I said they did this to me. My parents have been beating me every day since I can remember, they would hog tie me some times they make me strip off all my clothes all the time, and they take turns beating me with a horsewhip. I was scared to death of my parents at that time; however, I did what I had to do. I told on my parents and I was condition not to. Had, I not told, I knew either I would be killed, or I would end up killing my parents. I was angry, I was hurt, I was lonely, I was unloved, and I was empty. I ask the judge that day in court if he would do me a favor in exchange for the favor I promises to not run away from home again as I did a lot after so many beatings.
I ask the judge to take me away from my parents and I beg him, I do not want to see them ever again! The judge granted my wish emidently! I never saw them again. My parents hid their abuse and I was silent to as well. Both of my parents when beating me would always tell me to keep my mouth shut, and if you don’t we will kill you and bury you in the back yard, and call the police, and tell them you ran away again. They will never find you and you will be long forgotten.

When I was a child going through all this I used to day dream I would have different parents and I didn’t care what color, or what sex it did not matter to me. I just wanted someone to love me! I did not really know what love was but I knew I needed something.

I have spent 16 years in therapy and medications for PST depression sleeping disorders night terrors. I am fifty years old now; most of my past has been dealt with but I cannot forget what they had done to me. I used to blame myself for years before I decided to get help. I reliesed they where the sick ones not me, I was only a helpless child.

To even think that straight parents are the “only” qualify people to raise children is absurd in it self, Please! leave your religion out of this I am so sick of people who hide behind (the good book) to make them selves feel they are so righteous, and condemn homosexuality and see that their rights as human beings are taken away to be parents.
Now that hurts!

We as a species have been messing with nature way too much in the last decade. GM foods, Weather manipulation, Animal/Human hybrids, and now.. Male/Male parenting.

Who are “you” to judge? I know of several gay couples who are raising children, and I would have given *ANYTHING* to have them as my parents.

Only time will tell, but in my opinion I think we are dooming these children to a life of confusion from the start. This will make them question themselves and their own feelings towards the opposite sex, when their parents obviously are different.

Where do you get this garbage from? What book are you reading? Please, I do not think children have to question what is gay, and what is straight! Children are not stupid.

Nature has its reasons, and soon enough we will see why. I just feel bad for the children who are going to be the ones that make us realize that this is wrong.

Why? They haven’t in millions of years since gay men have been on earth.

Your religion is dangerous; it teaches hatred. What a shame.






[edit on 11/26/2008 by cashlink]

we humans are a disgusting and intolerant species.

We have no reason to fear or hate anyone on this earth yet we seem to always, always, find a way to spread more and more hate.

Great men have dreamed faught and died for a day in human history that has yet to come and is still off on the very distant horizon. The day when all human beings are equal. A day when there is no rich or poor, smart or dumb, working drone or fat corporate pig.

Time and time again we are faced with choices that will either further revert our species or advance it into a more advanced intelligent and beautiful species. However time and time again we make the same mistake.

There is no black, white, asian, latino, American, Arab, gay, straight, rich or poor. There is only Human. These meaningless and empty titles show our true colors. They show just how primitive and disgusting we are.

I can only hope that before I die I will see the day when we can truly all be just human.

reply to post by leo123

As usual, when gays make their demands they only think of themselves in a very selfish manner and not about the implications of what they are trying to impose upon other people.

How dare you! (Make demands!) WHO ARE YOU! Let us take away your rights, ok lets denial you the right to raise children! Let’s denil “you” the right to love someone!
I thought ATS was to DENIL IGNORANCE!

they are trying to impose upon other people.

What are they imposing on other people?

In this case, gays don't seem to care whether adopting a child is, "in THE CHILD'S best interests, all they care about is their selfish desire.

Why don’t “you” tell us what their selfish desire are?

Wow! And “you” are not selfish in anyway are you. I guess it is hard being perfect “you” and Jesus Christ.

Study after study has shown that mothers and fathers bring two totally different and complimentary dynamics into the child raising process and therefore by gays adopting children they are denying that child 1/2 of this dynamic.

Show us these studies? Straight are the only perfect people to raise children.
I want “you” to back up your argument, with proof show your sources.

Further, gays don't seem to care that children can be particularly frank and cruel and that being raised by gay parents will virtually ensure that child will be subject to ridicule and harrassment during their school years.

Children are subject to being harassed in school over anything not just by being brought up by gay parents. Please! Your, logic is ignorant.

reply to post by pluckynoonez

The Republicans and the religious right in this country do not want this. It breaks down as simple as this: if you are homosexual, it is a gateway to pedophilia, because everyone knows that many Republicans and those in the religious right like little boys.

Please show proof of this erroneous statement with sources you care to debate this?

Speaking of pedophilia, are you talking about the ones in your churches that pray on young boys like the Catholic churches the Catholic priest who are mostly straight!

I know it’s a facts that * pedophilia* are straight men and woman! “not” gay men.

everyone knows that many Republicans and those in the religious right like little boys.

Care to show your sources to back your ridiculous statement? I believe some of your venom drip on your keyboard!





[edit on 11/26/2008 by cashlink]

Originally posted by rikk7111
I have to agree with you Deadline, If this was the norm since the beginning (speaking of being gay).........Who would reproduce?

Umm... the heterosexuals?

This has to be the most bizarre recurring argument against gay rights. Do you really think that if there were no social stigma attached to being homosexual, no one would be heterosexual? Are you that enticed by the idea of homosexual love?

As a heterosexual, it just doesn't make sense to me. I like men because I like men, not because loving a woman would be stigmatized.

Being homosexual is not "the norm" any more or less than being a redhead is "the norm". In both cases more people are not homosexual or not a redhead, than are. Removing anti-gay bias from our laws and institutions, and eventually (hopefully) driving homophobia out of our society, will do nothing to change that. There will still be both gays and straights, some of whom get married and lead stable, loving lives that are ideal for child-raising and some of whom do not.

As far as there being a long backlog of hetero couples looking to adopt – that's true, but there is also a long backlog of children waiting to be adopted. And being straight is hardly proof that you will be a good parent.

It seems to me that whether or not people will be good parents is dependent on so many variables that each case has to be looked at individually.

Yay Miami

reply to post by leo123


So, to be clear, those of you against gay adoption, would rather see a child not get adopted and spend their formative years in a goverment facility, or in Florida's case, completely lost within the system?

I'm just curious. Has anyone ever observed other mammals running off as gay lovers together? Do lions of bears spend their lives gay? I truly am asking this and I'm not trying to come off as a jerk.

If you can't procreate it is not a natural bond for family. Just observe the natural kingdom of animals. I don't have a problem if people want to be gay but I certainly can't ever view it as a natural thing.

reply to post by libertytoall


Homosexuality is commonly observed in animals. Here is a good link to Animals who show homosexual behavior.

Link

[edit on 26-11-2008 by round_eyed_dog]

Homosexuality does occur in all species, but it is certainly not normal, it is genetic flaw.

Put another way, if it was "normal" that species would become extinct in short order.

I really am not too concerned about the adoption part of this. I'm not a child psychologist. Whatever is best for the children should be first and foremost.

What I am concerned about is this:

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I'm glad to see this and hope to see more of the courts intervening where the electorate has lost their way.

Originally posted by RetinoidReceptor
Democracy is flawed.

One judge just overruled the citizenry, yet again. And that judge is praised for it, yet again.

Anyone else get this? ONE person just declared all the others are wrong and will do things their way. And yet, when Joe Stalin, or Lenin, or Hitler, or Mussolini, or Kim Jong (mentally) Il did this, it was an abomination?

OK, let's try it this way: you just won a legal battle. A judge ruled in your favor over the electorate. Congratulations! Now, when that same judge rules against you on something, will you be as happy about it? If that judge had ruled against gay adoption, when the electorate had said it would be allowed, would you praise the judge for their ability to see beyond what the people wanted?

Remember that this ruling was based on 'equal protection under the law', not on the best interests of the children. It was based on the desires of the prospective adopting parents. Is that not a concern, that the ruling was based on the adults' desires and not the children's need? Or is any excuse OK as long as the result agrees with what you think? Do the ends justify the means?

Remember this warning: when control of the law is taken from the majority and placed into the hands of the few, the law is out of control. A law which is out of control will be abused by someone in power; that has never failed in the history of mankind. Be careful what you ask for; you just might get it.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by sadisticwoman
Go Miami judge!

homophobia is ignorant, we should be denying ignorance, etc.

sadisticwoman:

This discussion has nothing to do with ignorance or homophobia. Bring up these cards only re-enforces my comment that gays make demands like this in a selfish manner and could care less about the implication of their demands upon others.

I repeat again, this discussion is about, "what is in the CHILD'S best interests".

reply to post by leo123


wow, you need to learn how to read, there are SO many posts that attack us, why dont you try to deny your OWN ignorance, and not just everone elses

Originally posted by outrider
reply to post by leo123

 

wow, you need to learn how to read, there are SO many posts that attack us, why dont you try to deny your OWN ignorance, and not just everone elses

You types still don't get it, do you? None of my posts have been about attacking gays, they have been about speaking for the children and giving them a voice. However all the replies I have received from gays have been about attacking me and totally ignoring what I said, so it makes one wonder just who the ignorant ones are.

To me there is only one focus here and that is what is best for a child and as far as I am concerned anybody else's "rights" takes a distant, DISTANT second regardless of WHO they are.

Let me give you a comparison. In custody cases women are awarded custody of the children in something like 90% of divorces. Is that fair to men? No. But is it very likely the best for the children? Yes. So as far as I am concerned even though fathers getting a totally raw deal here is completely unfair, their "rights" take a distant second over those of the children.