Aurora XST and NASP

Originally posted by Shugo
I think they won't. I've thought about them possibly making it a bomber or fighter. I do not think theat we are going to make a bomber that goes from Mach 8 to Mach 25. Mach 6 possibly.

Boeing has a proposed double digit Mach aircraft as their idea of a B-3 bomber. Check out Intelgurl's post on the B-3 what do you think/hope it might be? thread for details. Aerodynamics dictate that most hypersonic aircraft would have the same shape. And if the USAF is making a new bomber, they will want it to go as fast as it can, because they are sick of using other nations bases.

Originally posted by SimonGray

Why does a high speed determine that such an aircraft would be an improbable candidate for reconnaissance?

At such a high speed, hypersonic reconnaissance would be an awesome intelligence weapon. The CIA would have it's snaps and be out of there before ground-based weapons could target the sucker.

I am tired and not thinking straight. I will get back to you on this.

Here is some information of the "Mysterious" Aurora, when the X-30 option was not thought of:

www.fas.org...

seekers.100megs6.com...

www.blackvault.com...

For some reason some of my links on Aurora have been cut... I'm able to get more information on the X-30 than the Aurora...

But, comparing shape, specifications, missions, engines and all of the info between the Aurora and the X-30 it's almost obvious that the Aurora has been sitting under our noses called the X-30.

I am trying to post a drawing of a triangle craft, possibly aurora, that I saw last year. People say to go to properties , right click it, but that doesn't work. How do I post without making it a link to a site?
Some of you post pictures.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by starcrystal]

starcrystal

Click on the MemberCenter tab above, on the left you'll find a place to upload pics to the ATS server. The ATS software will give it a location and name, which you then copy and paste into the 'Insert an Image' form. See the tutorial tab.

I have tried all that, and no matter whether I use the ATS url at top, or my computer, it will not post. I have the same problem trying to upload an avatar. It should be working but it wont. I am copying & pasting just as the tutorial instruction says....

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by starcrystal]

Some info I found on a possible Aurora picture:

Now we know what "Aurora" looked like.

Errors in Photo Captions (Ben Rich should be not responsible for them)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Second page, top right: Colonel Al Whitley, Stealth squadron commander,
- ----------------------- following the first air attack on Baghdad during
Operation Desert Storm in 1991.

Photo made at Nellis AFB, April 1, 1991, after return from Saudi Arabia.
(Note mission marks and nose art on front F-177A).

More info here: www.netwrx1.com...

Well, I got the avatar upload to work, or the mods helped, but still can't post the picture. I am following all instructions. The only way I'll be able to show it is to link to a web page. If I do, I am NOT spamming. I'll put it on a separate site even. If I do it, cuz I'm getting tired of fighting with this image thing....

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by starcrystal]

[Edited on 3-4-2004 by DJDOHBOY]

for some reason the extention had to be in capitals??? ( ats7346_triangle_plane.JPG)

Hope that helps

I think one thing I'd like to point out is that the NASP project was indeed a secret project. Just because they say the project was cancelled at such and such a time doesn't mean that it actually was. You have to realize the huge motivation and payoff for the Air Force, the CIA, and NASA to have such a plane. They could launch satellites and do reconnaissance with something like this, as well as fly into space and destroy other peoples hardware. That said I doubt the money or interest just dried up, especially money for something this important. My belief is that they actually built the plane and it flew, but there were technological hurdles that they couldn't overcome at the time that would allow the aircraft to go into space. It's entirely possible that they have overcome these hurdles, but are most likely doing it under a different project with a different airframe. My belief of this is based on putting things together and things I've found on the internet that indicate that this was the direction the Air Force in particular was wanting to go.

OK.

Simon, I have thought of a number of reasons why, but none of them stand up. So yeah.

Originally posted by intensity
Just because they say the project was cancelled at such and such a time doesn't mean that it actually was.

This is exactly what I considered. The shape and specifications of the plane fit exactly.

They indicated Aurora was non-existant... but, since this project was secret... no one knew about it. But, now... could it be possible that people abandond the information after finding out that the project was canceled, thus allowing them to ditch all guesses on this plane being Aurora?

As the shiny drum rolls across the stage. lol

Anyway... comparisons here to what may have completely solved the Aurora case once and for all...

X-30 side:

found on the FAS Site
Prior analyses of scramjet propulsion systems had concluded that they would only be able to achieve speeds of about Mach 8. At this speed, the thrust emerging from the rear of the plane would be balanced by the heat generated by atmospheric drag and the high temperature of the air as it entered the front of the engine. Thus limited to a maximum speed that was only one-third the orbital velocity of Mach 25, a scramjet-propelled vehicle would need rocket motors to achieve the remaining speed needed to reach orbit. Analyses concluded that such a vehicle would be heavier and more complicated that a conventional rocket.

However, the Copper Canyon project discovered that higher speeds could be achieved through the imaginative use of active thermal management. By circulating, and thus heating, the scramjet's hydrogen propellant through the skin of the vehicle prior to injection into the engine, energy generated through atmospheric drag was added to the thrust of the scramjet, enabling it to accelerate beyond the Mach 8 thermal barrier. Initially, there was optimism that this active thermal management approach would permit speeds of up to Mach 25 using air- breathing engines alone, eliminating the need for rocket propellants to achieve orbit

Now the specifications I've managed to scrape up are as follows:

Speed: Roughly Mach 23 or 17,549 MPH (sorry don't do km/h)
Altitude: out of atmosphere 200,000+ feet
Engine type: Scram Jet or Pulse Detonation Wave Engines
Main Mission: Reconnasaince
Armament: None

Aurora XST side:

Adding a link first for an error made in a previous post: www.fas.org...

specifications found on BlackVault
Speed: Maximum operational speeds are reported to be in the range of Mach 5-8.
Ceiling: May have an operational altitude of 150,000 feet (28.4 miles) or higher.
Engine type: Scram jet or Pulse Detonation Wave Engines
Armament: Possibly Phoenix Missiles
Main Mission: Reconnasaince

All together specifications
Speed: Roughly Mach 15 or 11,445 MPH
Ceiling: 185,000+ feet
Engine type: Scram jet or Pulse Detonation Wave Engines
Armament: Possibly Phoenix Missiles
Main Mission: Reconnasaince

Average the two:
Speed: 14,497 MPH or Mach 19
Ceiling: Out of Atmosphere
Engines: Scram/Ramjets or PDWE's
Armament: Probably Phoenix Missiles

Most Likely to be a recon/interceptor.

Another candidate for current sonicbooms and being mistaken for Aurora (X-30) which has now in my eyes been de-classed, is the X-43A Hyper-X, what's the problem with the X-43? Why isn't it thought to be Aurora? Take a look at the links and specs below you'll know why.


The X-30 was not supposed to be fired as a rocket. Nor was it a rocket.

www.air-and-space.com...

www.fas.org...

The multi-year NASA/industry Hyper-X program seeks to demonstrate airframe-integrated, "air-breathing" engine technologies that promise to increase payload capacity for future vehicles, including hypersonic aircraft (faster than Mach 5) and reusable space launchers. The X-43 will be the first free-flying demonstration of an airframe-integrated, air-breathing engine and will extend the flight range to Mach 10.

Close but, not close enough.

I think it's pretty much safe to say that the Aurora is in fact the X-30.

Another thing... look at the picture at the bottom of the FAS Site of the X-30...

Then take a look at the Aurora on this page.
www.freewebs.com...

Can you say Match?!

Starcrystal, your picture looks like a TR-3 Black Manta

TR-3

u know just wonderin u ever wondered if this was a smokescreen ? a bit far fetched but how come there is so much info on it and the USAF hasnt put a stop 2 it?

Well, info on it is kinda self explanitory...The SR-71 is what it is supposed to replace, so it would have to be faster, higher flying, and stealthy. Kinda of self explanitory.

Looking further into the matter now it seems that there is a slight possibility that there was at one time a plan for nuclear devices to be carried on board the Aurora.

Now technically we know that Aurora's main mission was to be Recon. However, it is possible for the plane to be used as something different.

Looking into new information I have found from online sources... I think the Aurora Project was turned over in 1996 to plans for the Hyper Soar program, which StarChild has recently posted about.

I think the main idea of Aurora exists now within the Hyper-Soar and the X-43 Hyper-X. Though I am still very doubtful on the X-43 being a spin off of the Aurora or the X-30, it is still a possibility. I think if we look further into the Hyper-Soar program we may find some back door to connections between the HS and the Aurora.

It is also said that the Hyper-Soar is to be the B-3 Bomber... with a name such as hyper and as stated earlier it is possible to travel at double mach speeds and have a capable bomber. This could also mean release of a Recon version as well.

I'll be filling you folks in on information I get, when I recieve it... in the mean time you can check out StarChilds thread on the Hyper-Soar:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

A research project has been opened to investigate whether or not Aurora exists.

You can find it at the thread link provided:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I advise all people who read this thread to read the Research Project.

Continuing research on the X-30 itself, finding additional information and links, a few of them claiming Mach 30 possibilities amazingly.

The National Aero Space Plane

As a part of a five-company team, Pratt & Whitney is pursuing and refining propulsion technologies for the National Aero-Space Plane (NASP). Designated X-30, this huge aircraft will operate from conventional airfields on Earth and fly at hypersonic speeds _ up to Mach 25 or Mach 30 (15,000 to 17,000 miles per hour) _ and be capable of achieving low Earth orbit.

A scaled propulsion system has been tested at a speed of Mach 8 and other components as high as Mach 14. Additionally, an engine cowl cooling device has been tested at temperatures it would encounter at Mach 20.

The team is made up of two engine companies, Space Propulsion and Systems and Rockwell's Rocketdyne Division, and three airframe companies, General Dynamics, McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell's North American Aircraft.

www.saveinhere.com...

If the information is considered perishable; that is, subject to change quickly, it might be downloaded during the mission via satellite to Helendale or sent directly to NPIC in Washington, D.C. where CIA and other interpretation agencies could act upon it.

Coupled with this type of information is Keyhole and Joint STARS, both of which provide instant, high-resolution vertical and oblique images and electronic information of any location on Earth virtually at the speed of light.

A lead to a cover name for the X-30 known as "Cassiopeia" which information of this datastream here:

www.goingfaster.com...

Looking more to the bottom of the page:

The other interesting thing to note is what the "Cassiopeia" apparently is. While the design will be unfamiliar to some, to others, they will recognize the classic lines instantly (as I did). Named for yet another character from Greek mythology (notice that NASA names their ships while ANSA apparently does not (in the movies, that is)), the "Cassiopeia" is none other than the prototype design concept for the United States NASP National AeroSpace Plane, better known as the X-30 or the "Orient Express". I won't bore you with details on the X-30, suffice to say that it was cancelled long ago and that there are plenty of websites out there dealing with information on it if you are interested (and you should be, it was an amazing project). The NASP / X-30 / "Orient Express" was a single stage surface to orbit and back to surface reusable design intended to not only service space stations, but also to be a hypersonic commercial passenger liner that would have made the Concorde look like a single engine Cessna in comparison for speed. There was a rather bland movie done along the lines of the old "MAROONED" movie, where a NASP type vehicle suffers a malfunction and is stranded in orbit with all the passengers aboard. I think the name of the movie was "Starflight One" and it starred Lee Majors (of "Six Million Dollar Man" fame) as the pilot. It might be an interesting brain dead adventure if you have nothing better to do, or worth renting if you find it purely for the nostalgic value and to see how one of these vessels might have operated.

Additional info on the Mach 25 theory:

National AeroSpace Plane (NASP)/X-30
The NASP, NASA designation X-30, was a TAV. It was to airbreath to Mach 25 (orbital speed). Ref: Hannigan, Russell J., "Spaceflight in the Era of Aero-Space Planes," Krieger Publishing Co, 1994.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

NASP Derived Vehicle (NDV)
The NDV Ref: Hannigan, Russell J., "Spaceflight in the Era of Aero-Space Planes," Krieger Publishing Co, 1994.

The USAF and NASA obviously had the plan the idea the ability to make and commence a plane. But, since the operation got canceled it slowly faded away. However one thing arises, is the possibility it wasn't canceled at all, possibly renamed.

If it was renamed, could the Aurora or Senior Citizen be the new codename or actual name for the plane? The possibility is there, though we can't actually confirm the likelyness.

If so, then the plane that needs to be tracked is the X-30 and X-33 plane models and save our Aurora information that we have for comparison.