At what point, if any, does the soul leave the body?

In the Tibetan traditions, it is understood that the part of soul animating a body takes three days to withdraw completely.

In our culture we also allow three days before burial or burning the body.

As yet, we have not determined a point where death occurs, apart from the stopping of major physical functions which indicate life is ending in the body.

The continued growth of hair and nails after physical death must be some kind of cellular process that takes longer to finish. I don't think this activity constitutes being not dead.

The Soul cannot leave the body during life! But the subtle energy body called the Astral can, and does regularly leave a body while we sleep. This is so for all people, who will remember strange dreams if they remember anything from their nocturnal adventures. I think this is a form of stress or pressure relief for us while embodied.

The soul does not reside in the body completely, as it is far too huge and far too active on other levels of awarness to confine itself so. Instead, a small portion of Soul will surround and enter to animate the foetus prior to birth. The remainder of the Soul will continue to function in other realms as it always has.

This is only based on my experiences over more than 30 years of adventures within the astral and beyond those confined realms into what I call Soul Level Awareness.

reply to post by Tayesin


Tayesin ,are you aboriginal? that was a fascinating post!

I know almost nothing about native Australian beliefs ,but what you wrote backs up so many things that other cultures adhere to ,it just widens the picture and yet brings it all together at the same time, Cheers!

@ Tayesin
"The Soul cannot leave the body during life! But the subtle energy body called the Astral can, and does regularly leave a body while we sleep."

I think that lots of people just never thought of the difference between both before reading this thread. We keep trying to explain things and assume that the soul is the only non physical or visible form of energy connected to our body. Now this explains a lot.

"But the subtle energy body called the Astral can, and does regularly leave a body while we sleep."
But there are dreams who are just dreams... is that the astral body still leaving the physical body to go to a different level than when it seems to travel on the same level as our physical body?


@theindependentjournal
"The Bible says that when the body dies the soul returns to the Father who made it."
And then what? Some say that the bible says that there is no soul but just the "body" that sleeps somewhere.
I say the bible is too confusing if you want to use it to explain anything related to that topic.


@metamagic
"The soul never enters of leaves because it doesn't really exist independently other than as a pattern or ripple in the spirit field."
I always thought that "God is everywhere" meant more than just what it says.
"thought is the basis of all physical manifestations."


@invisiblewoman
"The Tibetans say to stay away from the blinding bright light and chose the softer one ? I don't know what that means at all ,but that's what they tell the souls that they are guiding"
Yup I want to know as well lol

"In the holographic universe you exist in all times and your WHOLE existence is transmitted everywhere "
"and everything and everyone is one "
I red something about it, that and different "dimmensions"
Now I bet there is more than just the astral body and soul that is connected to our physical body.


@elysiumfire
"Je pense, donc je suis" (I think, therefore I am)... it provides proof positive that 'something' is (in terms we understand) thinking. Whatever that 'something' is...is still somewhat debatable."
Yes... the brain could just be transfering and transforming that "something's" messages to the body... hm.



Well, all that leaves me with those questions:
Whats the function of the soul, whats the function of the astral body, what other invisible forms of energies are connected to our physical body,
Whats the brain's functions compare to those and how is it all linked together?

Also, animals have no soul? Or do they? Or what do they have? I can't imagine them having no other form of energy than their body. I'd call it a machine... lol.

About the soul leaving the body well to say that it is leaving the body does not necessarely mean that all of it was inside the body but at least it was connected to it. And I do believe that something if thats the soul (could be a different form of energy than the soul that does that? dunno), takes generall 3 days to leave the body. There is for sure something about that 3 days that is true.

I have brain cramps now.

Interesting question first of all.

Here is my thoughts on it, based off of my bible from God.

It clearly states that everyone is resurrected at the end of age- 1000 years after Christ's return. But how can a body be ressurrected once dead and decayed, especially ones who are cremated, dismembered, and so forth? Easy answer is that the SOUL is ressurected. The soul stays with the body from time of death, to Judgement day when EVERY human from adam and eve, to the last person to die, even the living at the time, will be resurrected. A soul does not go to "hell" or heaven (Kingdom of God) after the body dies. Think of it like a surgeory for those who've had one. The time from when you go under and when you wake from it, seems like an instant. Same is with death. Once you die, it's an instant to when you (your soul) is resurrected for Judgement Day. It's even proven that NO MAN may enter the Kingdom of God until Jesus returns. For more info on where to find this, please email me at [email protected]. Anyways... that is sufficent proof to me. So when you die, you (your soul) go nowhere until Judgement Day, when it is then resurrected and Judged to either have eternity in the Kingdom of God or your soul is destroyed (that's right, there is no hell. Email me again if you'd like to see scriptures that says this)

But how can a soul survive in a dead body? I think the answer lays with the String Theory that is popular these days. I don't want to explain the complexity of this theory for those who don't know it, so please research it. But for those who know and understand the theory, the membrane we all live in (4D world: Time, Up/Down, Left/right, Forward/backward) is what the body lives in and what we see in everyday life. There is said to be more membranes and I believe one of them is the Kingdom of God, so possibly, another must be a membrane where the spiritual world exist that is not in the Kingdom of God membrane. It would make sense, since we can not see it (would be a demension) and it would not enter the Kingdom of God membrane but stay "with the body" until Judgement Day- if that makes any sense?

Again, the String Theory is a theory and may never be proved but this is simply a probability to how the soul can stay with a dead body- either way, it does until Judgement Day.

reply to post by Anonymous ATS


That leaves too many questions.

"But how can a body be ressurrected once dead and decayed, especially ones who are cremated, dismembered, and so forth? Easy answer is that the SOUL is ressurected. "

I thought that the bible clearly was saying that the physical body was ressurected. That's what those who believe in our ressurection say that this is clearly what the bible says anyway. To me that makes no sense though. Neither do most of what you say makes sense to me.

"It's even proven that NO MAN may enter the Kingdom of God until Jesus returns."
I just love how you say "proven". I would agree if anyone would have tried, failed and came back to tell me that they failed.

"(that's right, there is no hell. Email me again if you'd like to see scriptures that says this)"
I agree, I don't think there is hell but I did not take that in a book or on the net.

"Again, the String Theory is a theory and may never be proved but this is simply a probability to how the soul can stay with a dead body- either way, it does until Judgement Day."
I'll search, because I'm very curious... brb

Well I just red some about the String Theory and when you talk about membranes you could just say dimmensions... but there are so many theories that could explain each of our opinions and really your post leaves me with too many questions and doubts.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by GoldenGirl]

reply to post by they see ALL


Mediums John Edward and Colin Fry have both been confronted with strange cases where the subjects they were reading in their demonstrations were NOT PHYSICALLY DEAD. In one John calmly went on passing on messages to relatives who had their mouths open in surprise. The messages proved who it was. They could contain themselves no longer but burst out with, .... is still alive, but in a coma. With Colin (or it might have been the other way around) a similar thing happened only in this case the messages were coming through clearly and lucidly from a relative who had alzheimer's. I know too that my late wife Ede was gone on the Sunday, though her body didn't cease until early wednesday morning. In between there were times when she was seemingly quite aware of basic things.

Then there was the time when John Edward was 'reading' a young woman who could hardly stop from smiling at John's confusion. Eventually he asked if she was a Twin or there was somebody very very close. He was picking up her energy as a double. She was a recipient of an organ transplant and was already aware of the other person coming through and changing her likes and dislikes.

reply to post by they see ALL


If you study the esoteric material that is readily available, it mentions that there are subtle "threads" that are connected to the brain and to the heart. When we sleep, the consciousness thread detaches from the brain, and we (obviously) are no longer conscious, allowing the soul to detach from the heavy physical form and inhabit the astral body (or the mental body, depending upon one's development). The life thread remains attached to our heart. However, when it is time to leave the body, the life thread detaches from the heart, and the heart stops beating (this normally occurs after the consciousness thread detaches from the brain). At that point, there is no brain activity, and no heart activity, because the human soul has moved on to astral, mental, or intuitional levels of beingness. Check out the books of Helena Blavatsky, Helena Roerich, Alice Bailey, or Torkom Saraydarian.

The dimmensions are not membranes. The theory is clear that what we live in (4D) is one membrane because the strings connect to it. There is for sure, at least 1 more membrane because of the other 7 dimmensions existence but is possible there is more than just the 2.

For scripture evidence on heaven, hell, and the resurrections, I'd have to go through my notebook at work and I'm currently at home. So tomorrow, I will post where to find this information. But for a quick explanation without scripture (just for today), let me try to explain what it says.

David, a prophet, had spoken of Jesus who would be in hell for three days before he would ressurect and go to the Kingdom of God. (BTW: he appeared as a being body after death to the desciples, then like that, he disappeared. Could've went to his spirit form, in which humans can not see- would explain the string theory).

Peter later recalled this passage b/c it was confusing to people then, that David was speaking of himself, but Peter explained that David was speaking of Jesus. As for Jesus being in hell for three days? Hell in hebrew means shal, and in greek, shal means grave. So, when ever someone spoke of hell in the bible, it meant a grave. Jesus could NEVER go to hell. Peter further explained that David is still dead in his physical body, in hell (his grave). So, how can a prophet of God not be in Heaven and still be in his grave? Jesus himself said that where he will go when he dies, NO MAN may go where he is going (Kingdom of God). So, again, this proves there is no burning flamed hell where God sends evil doers for sinning. Hell is a grave and when Judgement Day comes, those who's names are not in the book of life, their spirits will be destoryed and the punishment is no eternity, no nothing. Just like athiest believe when they die, nothing happens. That is what will happen to people who's name is not in the book of life.

Now for those who ARE in the book of life? Just like the prophet David, they will just die and suddenly awake for Judgement Day and live in eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven.

As for the resurrection, it doesn't say the physical body. Plus, only spirits can live in the Kingdom of God post Judgement Day, so how can a physical body then be resurrected if it can never enter the K.O.D.? It can't, so therefor, it's the spiritual body- the soul.

As for the String Theory, it's best to find the 3 hour video called "Elegant Universe" to get a detailed explaination of what it is. You can find it on youtube or PBS.com.

Again, I will repost tomorrow with the actual scriptures of what it says about heaven, hell, and the resurrection.

Oh and BTW, I was the guy who posted earlier about all the above info, I just didn't know I wasn't logged in at the time.

reply to post by GoldenGirl


I think they think they have their own existent immortality, just like we have, they are part of everything and everything is part if the Totality,it's not just past or up or down it's everything
thoughts
experiences a complete micro to macro ,future past and now, it's EVERYTHING the universe is, we are all the same thing

there is no them or us because we are all of it together ,bugs, trees, all animals ,bacteria, subatomic, particles, light, sound and the past and the future are all one thing

We should be careful how we judge others because in a real sense there are no others

I say that because I am hyper aware of this ,not that I know how I got this way

reply to post by invisiblewoman


I agree. God is everywhere, when we hurt someone we hurt him directly, we have those connections with people that we can't always explain, I did experienced being inside of someone else's body... that could explain it too?

I connect easily with certain people to the point where we think the same at the same moment and will say it at the same time VERY often many times a day. anyone that knows me well is used to it and it can be annoying even. It started to be stronger when I started to understand that in some way we are all 1.

As for the resurrection, it doesn't say the physical body. Plus, only spirits can live in the Kingdom of God post Judgement Day, so how can a physical body then be resurrected if it can never enter the K.O.D.? It can't, so therefor, it's the spiritual body- the soul.

There are some problems making this "true"
In the KOD there are also angels, angels are real figures in flesh.
There are several passages in the bible where it states about angels comming from heaven, sodoma and gomora for example where angels are real characters.
And another one where it states that god sends his sons "the sons of god" to mate on earth.
Finialy jesus ascended to heaven as a real charecter after he walked out of his grave as the grave was empty with out a body after the event like the bible describes it.
So you got major contradictions.If heaven is a spirit world realm then real characters as in flesh and blood would not reside there.

Maybe we just get new bodies.

[edit on 27-11-2008 by pepsi78]

Well Jesus was special and could do things no other could do. Bringing his physical body out of this membrane we live in, would be his proof that he was the son of god. Just because Jesus did something, doesn't mean everyone can.

Also, when Jesus appeared in front of the diciples, he had to say "It is me, Jesus". Why would he have to say this? They knew what he looked like! It's because he was there in his spiritual form. Now to match up with string theory (if you know it), this could be because God allowed the electro-magnetic waves in that region, to allow this membrane of the spiritual dimension to appear to them- then quickly took it away, as Jesus suddenly disappeared.

As for Angels, what makes you think this wasn't the case also? No physical being, can be in the KOD. Even John, had to be in a spiritual condition when brought to KOD for Revelations.

As for the "other two sons of god", never heard of this story. Do you have the scripture so I may read it? I am very interested to know that God sent two angels to mate, even when there was already an Adam and Eve who was responsible for populating the world.

As for Angels, what makes you think this wasn't the case also? No physical being, can be in the KOD. Even John, had to be in a spiritual condition when brought to KOD for Revelations.

Because there is a whole hatcery /class of angels in flesh described in the bible.

for example:

Then one of the cherubim reached out his hand to the fire that was among them. He took up some of it and put it into the hands of the man in linen, who took it and went out. 8 (Under the wings of the cherubim could be seen what looked like the hands of a man.)


It becomes more clear in this pasage
Revelation 4:6–9
Also before the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal. In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox.
As you can see it describes "living creatures"

As you notice it states "living creatures"in heaven, so it would not make sence.

Because this thread is not about a religion class I wanted to make a point on something else.What if we see things from another dimension as a spirit world but if we could get there we would notice it's not a spirit world.

Say for example the other dimension will see our dimension the same and same go's for us.If you see a creature from another dimension, maybe you see it like that because it's still in that dimension but if it could cross over you would see it materialise in front of your eyes.

There are several thing that could hapen when we die.

A) Nothing hapens, it corossed my mind, I don't want that to be the true answer as nothing would make sence in a universe full of universal laws and rules.We as creatures live a very short time, not enough time to see anything as it really is.If this is the true answer then life it's self is pointles.It go's like it never was and it's very scary.For example buterflys live for one day.What happens to buterflys?Is there a heaven for them?
It seems that one day for them would not be fair at all and it would be pointless.There is a posibility that there is nothing and this is all, right now till you die and then comes nothing.


B) When we die our energy is shifted in to another dimension on a higher plains becoming somthing else that is needed there, maybe another creature.Energy can form matter, the atomic bomb is a perfect example.
This would also explain what happens if we take the bible in to account.
Jugement day, when energy turns in to matter.I think each energy signature has a distinctive patern to infinitem everything in this universe is unique.I also think we need a body, in order for energy to gain knolege it needs a recipient, remember that people with out memory are vegetables.
The brain keeps the information and not the energy.Information is stored in the brain cells but energy delivers it.

This brings me to another point.This is so easy, no one has studied this factor, maybe I should post this somewhere else.But what is a soul? Maybe it's the electrical curent runing in our brains, brain cells store information but do not act as a transmiter when energy(electrical curent)
travels to the brain parts where it is needed.Neurons will store information, but the information gets there by independent movment of energy.Since electricity is the closest to pure energy this might explain some things.That electrical curents running within our head do travel independent and are not guided by anything.This energy is responsible for delivering information in to the neurons.As there is no other factor to guide this energy this is I supose ground zero where everything starts to make the body function.

So far I have not seen and documentary or any specification on this.
What happens to the electical energy in our brains once we die? Since energy can not die off then I supose it go's somewhere else.





[edit on 27-11-2008 by pepsi78]

reply to post by redled



there is still no evidence to say that the mind is part of the brain, there for you could say is the mind aprt of the soul.

the body just been a body, and the real us is the soul.

if ya get me

we all have a soul - suprise!


us humans use a relative small percentage of our brain on a daily basis.. so what is all the rest of it there for you ask? that is our subconscious and our neuro-system lying dormant while you live your everyday normal activities.... absorbed in the physical world.


Our bodies are only vehicles people. We have this opportunity to become enlightened and active our levels of consciousness (past lives, bio-electric batteries, longevitiy, and healing powers). This is why we have "ghosts" or "immortals" on this planet is due to the fact that through an enlightenment, your soul can leave the body completely.


there is a chemical (this is western medicine straightforward for ya) produced in our brain known as di-methyl-tryptamine. this chemical secretes from our brain at REM sleep and also at near death experiences. It is this chemical that monks and enlightened individuals across the world/multiverse that are able to see into this spiritual-world.



no worries though if you do not believe any of this.... the ascension has already begun for many.

love and light!

power in unity.


survival

my personal view is that the body is simply a vessel for the soul. The soul is the essence of the "being". therefore, the physical body may well seem to exist for some time without a soul to "direct" it.

btw... the idea of cadavers growing hair/ fingernails is a fact of natural dehydration of the shin. The hair and nails pre-existed beneath the surface of the skin but the dehydration of the flesh pulls it tight and reveals what was already there.

Originally posted by Aislin
The question of when the soul leaves the body is of interest to me.
Different cultures or religions have a specific time you must wait before burying or cremating a body. Since I have decided to be cremated when I die, I am now wondering if I should wait a certain time period before having this done. What does everyone think?

according to sylvia brown u need to wait couple of days before cremation so the soul has time to "adjust"

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by they see ALL

 

The Bible says that when the body dies the soul returns to the Father who made it. S I guess my answer to your question would be at the time of brain death and heart stoppage. They can keep brain dead people alive on a machine so I think it would require both brain and heart stopping to really be dead.

Just my opinion from the WORD.

I heard about the english man who got proficient at leaving the body and soul travel to france signing documents there for a proof and coming back to his body in england in cople of minutes. he eventuially died after one of his obe but the doctors said his body was in coma like state while soul was traveling ;so it tells me when u r vegetable your soul is not there. it may come back if it decides to

What kind of foods does Ghosts eat? Soul-Food!!! Which movie do Ghosts hate? Ghost Busters. What is the favorite place where Ghosts likes to be? At the Pub. Why didn't the Ghost goto the dance? It had no body to go with. What did one Ghost say to the other Ghost? 'Would you be my soul-mate. What dance move does Ghosts like to do? Soulo dance. Why was there only a Ghost left after the plane crashed landed? Because it was the soul survivor.

[edit on 30-11-2008 by gordonwest]