US Supreme Court to Conference on Obama's Presidential Eligibility

Originally posted by DOHC
On June 24, 2003, the Hawaiian Declaration of Independence was hand delivered to the White House in Washington, D.C.

If Hawaii was not a state, they would not have to declare their independence.

Perhaps this will pan out and Hawaii will become independent and secede from the US, but at this time (and in 1961) Hawaii IS a state of the US.

This claim is absurd on the face.

Even if your information is 100% true, and Hawaii was made a state illegally, they were STILL made a state and would have to secede to "rectify" it. In the meantime, it is still a state. Hawaii has had representation in our government (Senators) and participated in the US because it has been a STATE since 1959.

FURTHER, even if Hawaii ISN'T a state, they became a US territory in 1898.

US Constitution Net: Natural-born Citizen

Who is a natural-born citizen? Who, in other words, is a citizen at birth, such that that person can be a President someday?
...
Separate sections handle territories that the United States has acquired over time, such as Puerto Rico (8 USC 1402), Alaska (8 USC 1404), Hawaii (8 USC 1405), the U.S. Virgin Islands (8 USC 1406), and Guam (8 USC 1407). Each of these sections confer citizenship on persons living in these territories as of a certain date, and usually confer natural-born status on persons born in those territories after that date. For example, for Puerto Rico, all persons born in Puerto Rico between April 11, 1899, and January 12, 1941, are automatically conferred citizenship as of the date the law was signed by the President (June 27, 1952). Additionally, all persons born in Puerto Rico on or after January 13, 1941, are natural-born citizens of the United States. Note that because of when the law was passed, for some, the natural-born status was retroactive.

US Code1405: Persons Born in Hawaii

A person born in Hawaii on or after April 30, 1900, is a citizen of the United States at birth.

The Constitution of the STATE of Hawaii

How's that?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Yeah, he's just throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks. Easy way to debunk his claim:

The U.S. recognized Hawaii as a state, so legally, from the U.S.'s standpoint, Hawaii is a state. Unless Hawaii does something to change that, then it will remain a state. And my guess is, even if they did, anyone who was born in Hawaii while it was a state will be grandfathered in.

It is truly amazing the dumb things people will say when behind the protection of a computer.

Not even worth wasting your time arguing with people like that.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by MissysWorld


I love the part where it discusses why no one has touched this story - including crazy old Rush Limbaugh. You know when Rush doesn't touch a story it must be bad.

Somehow the author of that article missed the main reason why no one is touching the story:

There is no reason to. The best evidence provided so far has been, "Well, I haven't seen it, so it must not exist!" A COLB has been provided, and the State of Hawaii has verified his birth there. Nothing else to say about it. Meanwhile, I don't even know what to say about the whole Indonesia claim.

Good luck, I guess. Hard to prove a case without any proof.

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I don't, nor do my parents have an original copy of my birth certificate. It's been lost over the years.

Your parents were issued a copy. It was lost and not replaced. That's ignorance on your part. How can someone loose such an important document?

Oh. I forgot. Ignorance.

[edit on 26/11/08 by Intelearthling]

reply to post by Intelearthling


Bleh. Why are you so cocky? Do you even have a point?

You're being cocky while promoting a conspiracy theory that has less backing that bigfoot. They lost their BC, big deal. It means nothing.

You want to talk about ignorance? Your being on this thread is laughable.

Honestly though, before someone jumps on me for attacking. What kind of dick calls someone's entire family ignorant for not having a document. Have you met them?

Perhaps they have certified copies and don't need the original?

[edit on 26-11-2008 by Irish M1ck]

reply to post by Irish M1ck

Yeah, he's just throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks. Easy way to debunk his claim:

The U.S. recognized Hawaii as a state, so legally, from the U.S.'s standpoint, Hawaii is a state. Unless Hawaii does something to change that, then it will remain a state. And my guess is, even if they did, anyone who was born in Hawaii while it was a state will be grandfathered in.

It is truly amazing the dumb things people will say when behind the protection of a computer.

Not even worth wasting your time arguing with people like that.

Please debunk my claim...........
Show me where I have not proven That the Hawaiian Island's were NOT illegally overthrown by a private Corporation with the unlawful use of the
United States Military and Government for gains and profits.

Your just blindly following and not reading or comprehending for yourself because if you were reading once again you would have seen that I did state,

I still don't think this will have any actual effect on his (Obama's) eligibility, since the U.S. CONSIDERS Hawaii a state"

Also it is just your opion that people will be Grandfathered in not fact, that would be for the courts to decide.

"The U.S. recognized Hawaii as a state" The U.S. also recognized there was a lone gunman in the Kennedy assassination. Do You Believe Everything Your Government Tells You?

It is truly amazing the dumb things people will say when behind the protection of a computer.

Not even worth wasting your time arguing with people like that.

You have just pointed your own finger at yourself by stating such silliness without reading and understanding completely what I put fourth in documentation.

reply to post by DOHC


Really? Last time I checked, there were 50 states, and everyone born in Hawaii was a US citizen. I can't even argue with nonsense like this.

Texas was basically annexed illegally too. Are all people in Texas not Americans too? This entire country was stolen from other people.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by DOHC
On June 24, 2003, the Hawaiian Declaration of Independence was hand delivered to the White House in Washington, D.C.

Was in reply to a question asked by maybereal11

post by maybereal11
Please show where in the ACTUAL law linked to below where Hawaii declared independance?

If Hawaii was not a state, they would not have to declare their independence.

If you would just take some time and read about the history and what happened and how it happened you would not be asking such a question as it is all there in documented history for you to read, But to give you a quick answer it would be because Hawaii was illegally overthrown and the island natives were not allowed to vote on the bill in 1898 when Hawaii became a US territory and by the time 1959 came Hawaii was over populated with western culture that vastly out numbered the natural natives and so many were just fed up with the white mans laws and double speak that the thought their vote would not count and as a form of protest did not vote.

Even if your information is 100% true, and Hawaii was made a state illegally, they were STILL made a state and would have to secede to "rectify" it.

And they are and have been, for may years, trying to do just that, it's all there in the doucumention I posted, Just take some time to read and learn because this is really becoming redundant that I have to keep explaining over and over and over again what is there for you to read.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


Please debunk my claim...........
Show me where I have not proven That the Hawaiian Island's were NOT illegally overthrown by a private Corporation with the unlawful use of the
United States Military and Government for gains and profits.

reply to post by DOHC


As I said, even if Hawaii isn't a state, they were a territory and Obama, being born in a US territory, is a natural-born citizen of the US.

So, what is the significance of your assertion that Hawaii isn't a state as pertains this discussion?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by DOHC


Please prove that Hawaiians are not considered American citizens. I think, being that it is your claim, that it is your job to do so.

It's a difficult task (really, it's impossible because you're wrong), but get to it.

reply to post by Irish M1ck


You stated

Yeah, he's just throwing crap at a wall and hoping it sticks. Easy way to debunk his claim

I stated

Please debunk my claim...........
Show me where I have not proven That the Hawaiian Island's were NOT illegally overthrown by a private Corporation with the unlawful use of the
United States Military and Government for gains and profits.

And you have not proven me right or wrong, you have provided nothing excepr more redunance by asking....

Please prove that Hawaiians are not considered American citizens. I think, being that it is your claim

You think?, Try reading and you will find once you open your mind and eyes that my claim is....

The Hawaiian Island's were illegally overthrown
and I have backed it up with enough information to prove it

Now don't keep spinning this around you said theres an easy way to debunk my claim.

So put your thinking hat on and Show me where I have not proven That the Hawaiian Island's were NOT illegally overthrown by a private Corporation with the unlawful use of the United States Military and Government for gains and profits.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

As I said, even if Hawaii isn't a state, they were a territory

If you would just take some time and read about the history and what happened and how it happened you would not be asking such a question as it is all there in documented history for you to read,

But to give you a quick answer it would be because Hawaii was illegally overthrown and the island natives were not allowed to vote on the bill in 1898 when Hawaii became a US territory and by the time 1959 came Hawaii was over populated with western culture that vastly out numbered the natural natives and so many were just fed up with the white mans laws and double speak that they thought their vote would not count and as a form of protest did not vote.

The fuzzy logic principal

Someone that wants anything that's yours and uses any type of
weapon (verbal or physical) to threaten you or your family's
life or freedom to obtain said property, the perpetrator would then be
considered the legal owner of said property because you freely
gave said property to the perpetrator even though the perpetrator
admitted to taking it by force and offered an apology.


[edit on 26-11-2008 by DOHC]

From today's msnbc online:

firstread.msnbc.msn.com...

The justices are unlikely to take up these cases for a host of reasons, not the least of which is the invitation to overturn the results of an election in which more than 66 million Americans voted for Obama. An equally high hurdle is the issue of whether Berg or Donofrio have the legal right to sue claiming a violation of the Constitution.

In dismissing Berg's complaint, a federal judge in Pennsylvania found that he failed to meet the basic test required for sustaining a lawsuit, because he couldn't show how the inclusion of Obama's name on the ballot would cause him -- apart from others -- some particular harm. Berg's stake, the judge said, "is no greater and his status no more differentiated than that of millions of other voters."

Other courts presented with similar challenges have reached the same conclusion, ruling that there is no general legal right to sue over the Constitution's eligibility requirements. Federal courts typically reject claims of legal standing based simply on a litigant's status as a voter or taxpayer.

The Obama campaign had hoped to end the controversy last spring by releasing his actual Hawaii birth certificate. But that prompted further questions about its authenticity, which were compounded when state authorities in Hawaii said they could not vouch for it, because they were constrained by the privacy laws.

Then, on Oct. 31st, the director of Hawaii's Department of Health issued a statement, proclaiming that he had personally seen and verified that the state has "Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record," which shows that he was born there.

[edit on 26-11-2008 by grover]

reply to post by danx


Uh, noone is disputeing Obamas' citizenship? Hello? Yes we are! If he in fact was born in Kenya, like his grandmother says, and if he in fact went to school at a mosque in Indonesia, he would not be an American at all. Maybe that is why his politics are so radically left. He NEVER went thru the government program to attain his citizenship, that I have heard or he has stated. So how would he be a citizen? Magic? He would be the first!

reply to post by grover


Interesting that that was posted today.

But, do the justices know that Hawaii is not a state?

reply to post by MAINTAL


I have read that McCain was not born in a military hospital in Panama because at the time of his birth the military hospital had not been built yet. He supposidly was born in a hospital on Panamanian soil outside the base.

Originally posted by Gregarious
Uh, noone is disputeing Obamas' citizenship? Hello? Yes we are! If he in fact was born in Kenya, like his grandmother says, and if he in fact went to school at a mosque in Indonesia, he would not be an American at all.

The 14th Amendment states:

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside...

You do know that you can be a US citizen without having been born in the United States, right? Arnold Schwarzenegger is a US citizen, for example.

Anyway, I'll prove to you that Obama is a US citizen:

From the State Department's Foreign Affairs Manual 7 FAM 1100:

The term "nationals of the United States", as defined by statute (Section 101(a)(22) INA) includes all citizens of the United States, and other persons who owe allegiance to the United States but who have not been granted the privilege of citizenship (...)

Nationals of the United States who are not citizens are entitled to the consular protection of the United States when abroad, and to U.S. documentation, such as U.S. passports. They are not entitled to voting representation in Congress and, under most state laws, are not entitled to vote in federal, State, or local elections except in their place of birth.

Furthermore, Article 1 Section 3 of the United States Constitution:

No Person shall be a Senator who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty Years, and been nine Years a Citizen of the United States, and who shall not, when elected, be an Inhabitant of that State for which he shall be chosen.

Since Obama is a Senator, and he was required to be a US citizen for at least 9 years at the time of election, he is a US citizen.


Again, I will stand by what I said:
No one is disputing that Obama and McCain are US citizens, if they are (you apparently are?), they don't know what they're talking about, or don't seem to understand the difference between being a US citizen and a "natural born citizen".

Originally posted by Gregarious
reply to post by danx

 

Uh, noone is disputeing Obamas' citizenship? Hello? Yes we are! If he in fact was born in Kenya, like his grandmother says, and if he in fact went to school at a mosque in Indonesia, he would not be an American at all. Maybe that is why his politics are so radically left. He NEVER went thru the government program to attain his citizenship, that I have heard or he has stated. So how would he be a citizen? Magic? He would be the first!

Wrong, wrong ...

1. Even if Obama was born in Kenya, he would still have been born American, because his mother was American, and fulfilled the requirements of that time for passing on citizenship to her child.

2. Barack Obama II's grandmother did not say anything. His father's step mother was the lady on the tapes, and she stated in one tape that Barack Obama senior, Barack's grandfather, was born there and, in another, that Barack was a "son of the village", which connotates blood ties to the village, not birth in the village.

3. It was not even possible for Barack to lose his American citizenship in Indonesia. It was not even possible for him to acquire Indonesian citizenship there as he was only there four years.

4. Barack did not go to school in a mosque ...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I hope you are kidding.... what do you mean Hawaii is not a state it became a state August 21st 1959. Obama was born almost 2 years later on August 7th 1961.