Bible Gets A Reality Check

I always thought that they where probably one and the same and I also wondered what would happen if this where true. Talk about a conundrum for all the believers!

Zindo

As soon as some of the tale is suspect, all of it becomes suspect.

Originally posted by The Last Man on Earth
As soon as some of the tale is suspect, all of it becomes suspect.

No not really, because the Bible is not a scientific narrative which requires external proof. It is a cultural narrative which justifies itself in it's telling.


That would be like saying that Aesops fables should not be followed because there was never a talking lion.

There is still much wisdom in Aesops fables, talking lion or no.

I actually saw the episode (didn't read the article), and can recommend it to everyone (except maybe the Biblical literalists, and even they would find interesting things there.) There were lots of "huh... I didn't know that!" moments -- thing which confirmed parts of the Bible and things which contradicted some of the stories.

It was well done, I thought, and not at all negative in tone.

OT’s got a reality check for them! (all in love of course!)

R- Risen Savior!

E-Exalted One!

A-Alpha!

L-Lamb of God!

I-Incarnate One!

T-Trinity!

Y-Yahweh!

= = = =

C-Comforter!

H-Healer!

E-Everlasting one!

C-Creator!

K-Kingdom Builder!

Ok so many christians dont believe the Bible is literal but the message is good...okay excuse me for asking,but did you not kind of come to the conclusion yourself its not cool to murder or rape,and loving and caring is better than hating? Why on earth do you need these books to tell you this? thats what really worries me.That people actually need it down on writing by some God to know its not alright to murder etc...

Let me inject a bit of Catholicism here if I may. We all know that popes, bishops and priests kept the bible locked away from the masses and showed great disregard for the Scriptures preferring instead their intolerable smells and bells.

Well that knowledge is not entirely correct. The Church has always had a profound and practised regard for the Scriptures as the principle source for anything the Church has ever taught. Reviewing the writings of the Church Fathers (as those outstanding theological minds of the first Christian millennium) they are all loaded and full with scriptural references, indeed often their theme is commentary on particular passages of Scripture. All this done under the inspiration of the Inspirer of Sacred Scripture - the Holy Spirit.

As a devout Catholic, and graduate in Theology, Philosophy and Oriental Studies, I find the use of Scripture throughout the history of the Church to be something of great beauty. You will be hard pressed to find any encyclical or conciliar writing which is not dripping with scriptural references. Our churches were, and are, full of the art that represents the Scriptures, our music is full of the Scriptures. Our liturgies have always, always, involved the public reading of Scripture and the clergy’s explanations of it. “Ah see!” some cry, “the clergy!!!” – well yes the clergy because they were those trained and eminently familiar with the Scriptures a book which can (and there’s plenty of evidence of this today) lead hearts and minds astray if one is proud enough to imagine that their own interpretation is the interpretation. I will bluntly say, if the Church hindered the laity’s immediate access to the Scriptures it’s a good job they did. They did not hinder their access to Scripture though. The Scriptures are an intensely powerful body of writings (if you doubt this look at the pages of history littered with conflict over it.) Reading Scripture should be done with caution and with the humility to submit one’s own immediate interpretation of a passage to the interpretation of that entity which continues to be inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit – the Church.

The article, and documentary (which I hope to see somewhere soon), do not say anything that is novel to myself nor the Church. Some we’ve known for quite some time, some theses which it suggests may be just that, some conclusions seem gob-smackingly obvious and are no threat to faith or the Scriptures. For example no actual evidence of Abraham,etc. well that’s ok, I have no actual evidence of those who discovered fire and the wheel but I’ll still get in my car and allow the internal combustion engine to move its wheels and get me where I want. The archaeological evidence for scriptural events is nice to know.

I could go on, maybe have already, but all this is fine. If anyone is interested in learning more then I suggest two documents of the Church: Providentissimus Deus, Pope Leo XIII (1893) www.vatican.va... and Dei Verbum, II Vatican Council (1965) www.vatican.va...

And, if I may, I draw your attention to my signature.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


The "Bibles Buried Secrets" show was part of the NOVA series on PBS. If you missed it, I think you might be able to watch it online. Go to PBS, click on NOVA icon then show title. They have Q & A from "experts etc.
Show mostly discussed where Israelites came from, how many in Exodus, possible location for Davids palace etc. All Old Testament stuff. Not really all that secretive in my opinion.

SAL.

I look at the bible as many things. First and foremost is the fact that the bible is the word of God. Second its a history book. 3rd a prophecy book. 4th The truth book.

reply to post by ExistenceUnknown


Too may things wrong here, sorry to burst the bubble but crapola should be scooped out and discarded should it not...

Bible has many authors, really and the Scientists just figured that out, no kidding? Aint they Johnny on the sot now since that is a known fact to most Biblical Scholars. There are 10 Authors in Genesis God wrote Chapter one and from then on you can tell the new author by the CODE WORDS "This is the generations of" then you will know the Author just changed.

There's no evidence for Abraham, OK I will give you that but there's no evidence against him either is there? And evolution is bought by so many and yet it has NO evidence. And let me state that this was the argument used in the early years of this nation that the Bible contained fictional people, until that is Archeologists found things that proved EVERY King the Bible said did in fact exist and reign.

Watch a show Called Exodus Decoded, it is by the History Channel, I think you may learn much about the exodus of the Israelis and just about all of the evidence in the show comes from Egyptian hieroglyphs and written history.

I aint commenting on the Ashtoroth comment, they are just wrong and confusing Tammuz and the Catholic Religion with the True God. All you have to do is look at Easter and Christmas to see how easy it is to get people to celebrate pagan rituals by claiming it has something to do with God. Just because they claim it is so, don't make it so.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
What I don't get is why christians don't welcome this kind of thing more often. I mean this is real scientific study being conducted on the bible. If Christians are so sure the bible is true and correct why not welcome this background check? Another thing I don't get is how some of you christians will quote the bible LITERALLY to prove your points and then when its questioned the only response I see is "Isn't it the message of the bible thats really important"

[edit on 20-11-2008 by ExistenceUnknown]

come on...you know better than this. The funnymentalist say literal and the rest (or most) say message. Two different groups so two different responses.
...Me, I am the founder of the Consistent Christian Movement. (CCM)
we believe that the Bible is nearly as realible as a history book as any that we have. It is written by the victors, it is myopic, a snap shot of a group of people or experiences it gets lost in translation, it gets interpreted over and over and re-written like a one huge game of telephone.
Maxmar's first post in this thread is as pithy as it can get. That is what Christianity is about and what the CCM stands for. The Bible has some great stuff in it,use your heart and brain to understand what is and what isn't but remember that you can't fool yourself, or rationalize the hypocrisy found in the Bible and expect to have some understanding of who God is.....The CCM loves any type of historical or fact finding story's involving the Bible. It proved to us that Judus was probably the most honest friend Jesus had, we like that since Jesus Christ Superstar is our favorite movie...yeah the CCM has a favorite movie....
.....(hey, there are some of you not finding this CCM thing funny, relax, I just made that up to explain my type of Christianity, I'm kidding, don't send checks or money orders!)

Originally posted by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by theindependentjournal
reply to post by ExistenceUnknown

 

Actually the first several chapters of Genesis were a synopsis of the Sumerian myths which came before.

Sorry friend you're dead wrong here and there is no way either of us can prove it. I say the Sumerian stories and Gilgamesh was PUBLISHED before Moses Published the Pentateuch. Just because one Publishes first does not make it the originator, ask Stephen King who just released a book of short stories most of them were written 40 years ago and never published...

Adam to Moses kept a written historical record and they passed it down every generation, it was not until Moses that it was Published as a complete set.

On he flood story what I find interesting is evolutionists say it never happened but over 270 different cultures have the same story nearly. 8 souls on a boat with animals world flooded. In fact the Chinese character for Flood is the symbols for water and 8 souls together, and possibly a boat I forget the exact details.

reply to post by theindependentjournal


God wrote chapter 1? and gave it to who? in what language?

Someday, the religious are going to have to come to grips with the obvious: As Science learns more, Religious texts get proven inaccurate.

Originally posted by nj2day
reply to post by theindependentjournal

 

God wrote chapter 1? and gave it to who? in what language?

To Adam and what language, well I could guess but it would only be a guess. Paleo-Hebrew that is my guess.

Originally posted by ExistenceUnknown
What I don't get is why christians don't welcome this kind of thing more often.]

I challenge you to watch the History Channel show Exodus Decoded then come back and tell me what you think about Real Archeology and the Bible and how accurate the Bible is Historically speaking...

[edit on 11/25/2008 by theindependentjournal]

reply to post by theindependentjournal


You can of course, back up the assertion that Adam kept a personal journal, documenting history right?

I mean, we can only assume we have the original records right? verifiable by archeology?

Originally posted by nyk537
Why is it that so many people feel compelled to "discredit" the Bible?

If you don't believe what it says, fine, but why go out of your way to "prove" to others that what they believe isn't true?

Seems kind of silly to me.

I don't see many threads trying to disprove any other religious texts.

Agreed. However, then what about the missive for all Christians to go out and gather in the sheep? To push the Word on the masses. To educate them in the path?

You see, it's a bit hypocritical.

However, I'm not a Christian basher. I'm a recovered Christian who truly does believe in His message but has, with due dilligence and honest review, found the Bible to be riddles with inaccuracies and flaws.

So, when you get on people for trying to point this out it is simply them doing what they feel is right. To try and educate the masses to the errors that can be found throughout the Bible. The same that the Christians do in furthering Gods Word.

History Channel had a thing called Banned from the Bible II on last night. It was great. The link posted is for Part I, but the user has links to the 2nd part, each contain 12 videos.

The show was really good. It talked about how the writers of the bible knew of other texts that talked of the same story, but how they felt that some of the texts stories should not be included in the bible.

Last night's episode talked in the beginning about how Adam actually had two wives and Eve was not the first, in fact the first wife was raised from the ground just like Adam, and when Adam asked her to sit below him she would not, she felt she should be as equal as Adam. So she went back into the heavens and is said that she had to lose 100 children a year for this sacrifice or something along those lines. She also was blamed to be the one that caused young men to have their discharges in the night. God then created Eve for Adam, because yes he complained, and this time Eve was made from Adam's Rib making her fully subservient to Adam.

Anyway not sure if it is the same as the PBS deal, but it really was a great watch!!



[edit on 25/11/2008 by nisei]

Originally posted by Solomons
That people actually need it down on writing by some God to know its not alright to murder etc...

Well I think that is a valid point now I would like to explore this one, can I?

Why would people need a God to tell them right from wrong, hmmm well I think maybe the best way to tackle such an intriguing question would be to answer it from the evolutionist view, can I?

First let me ask you and all, how do you know right from wrong, where did it come from? Now let's move on...

If evolution is correct and we are all basically the accidental happenstance from natural selection and mutations, is there a right and wrong. If survival of the fittest is the test of the day, me killing you makes me the Fittest I know because I survived and you died. So am I right? of course I am under the counterview.

Now let me move a bit farther into this discovery of whee right and wrong comes from, can I?

Let's say your answer is instinct, that is to say that you say it is just instinctual to sane humans not to murder and rape and steal and lie. I have a question for you... How can you trust your instinct when you are NOTHING BUT AN ACCIDENT? Maybe the insane ones are the sane ones, maybe the mass murderer is the fittest for it is he that survived.

God had to write it down for us so we would know HIS Law, also remember that little diddy about Cain and Abel so it did seem that he needed to tell them in writing as they had done it before. Now if God had written down that commandment before any man had murdered another that would be ridiculous would it not. For instance if I made a rule in my house that we can't cut up puppies and smear their blood on ourselves, but I made this rule before my children ever did anything like it. Would they not think I was nuts? Now let's suppose that one of my children did have a puppy and cut it up and smeared it's blood on themselves. Now suppose that child comes back and asks me for another puppy, would it be right then to lay down the rules as above to that child and would I no look insane as in the first example?

God wrote His Law down because mankind has since the garden been breaking and forgetting the Law. Yes I agree that it seems to be common sense but history proves otherwise. Now if evolution is correct you have to question the accident called your brain and if it is right or wrong on this matter, sorry no pun intended.

I guess the simplest answer to your query is this - YES some people and most people need to be told not t lie and steal and kill and rape...

Thank God he did this for us or who knows where we would be by now, probably somewhere around "Are goat human marriages legal in Massachusetts?

Thank you for your query I love explaining things like this and to be able to do it from two sides is fun.

To those that will most undoubtedly say God didn't write it I will say now, yes he did he used his finger to write into the stone, watch the Ten Commandments with Charlie Heston that gets it right.

Actually who knows how many times God wrote with his finger in the Bible? That is for the Biblical Literates and students...

reply to post by nj2day


Watch the show and tell me what you think, the show uses no Bible history to tell about the exodus. The Archeologist who did the show, it was produced by some famous director producer I forget his name offhand, anyways in this documentary he says if all hose Jews left Egypt there should be Egyptian history on it and he goes looking... I will not ruin it for you and show you what he finds JUST IN EGYPT on the exodus story I will let you watch it and make your own opinions based on what you see...

I look forward to your response after watching it, if you like you may U2U me your thoughts.