I do not want socialism

No offense, but pure socialism will never work here, even though I believe we are on the way. A "workers paradise" will not work. Healthcare for all will not work here. what's the incentive to work harder if you won't be allowed to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

This is not a small landmass with 20 million people. The U.S. is huge with 300 million. It simply will not work. If everybody makes the same, where will the tax money come from?

This country was founded on the premise that if you work hard, stay out of trouble, help your friends and neihbors when they need it, the government will stay out of your way and let you succed. You have to simply look at public housing and welfare to see that it doesn't work.

The most important point, however, is that our constitution only gaurentes limited government. There is no promise of healthcare and jobs . Your life is how you make it, not decided by government beaurucrats who think they know more than you.

Every single president, increases government, so he will just follow the path thats already set for america.

If you do not like socialism, there is nothing you really can do, because you are virtually there.

If you dislike socialism you should read the communist manifesto.

No seriously, its not a long read and you can google it. Read the communist manifesto then take a long looks at your life and get back to me and let me know what kind of a country you think you live in.

reply to post by andy1033


Looks like you're correct, nothing we can do about it. I do believe that if the government tries something really radical, you will see a taxpayer revolt.

reply to post by titorite

I have read it, and it seems to be coming to pass here in the U.S. It will get really bad here if the government goes full blown all out power grab over the states, even though they're doing that now.

If they try a national gun registration, free housing for evenbody, I think you will see some states try to succed from the union.

I think it would be an interesting experiment to just get back to the original U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We now have way too many expensive agencies that are not necessary. We have something like 300 military bases worldwide --- expensive and not really necessary. The I.R.S. -- taxation without representation when you consider that the general public did not want the trillion dollar bailout or any other bailouts. Citizens pay way too much in taxes, in my opinion. The Fed is totally unconstitutional --- our money should be issued by the USA and gold/silver backed.

And so forth and so on. We need certain regulations to prevent poisons from being in the food and coporations (including banks) from predatory rip-offs. We need a few social programs like pensions, for example, and limits on out-of-control health care price gouging. How these regulations and limits are set up is the problem because although I am in favor of some social programs that would be characteristic of a social democracy, I think the overriding form of our government should be the original U.S. Constitution.

We need to really get back to what the founding fathers wanted to have in this country, but with limitations to safeguard each other from bad elements of society. Is that possible?

reply to post by givemeliberty or beer


America already has sectors in the government that works like socialism. It has been like that for a long time.

We are a nation that combines all systems of government to operate government from within.

It just that nobody really gives any attention of what government do unless somebody mention the word socialism.

In America we socialize debt and privatize profits. and then call it free markets and capitalism.

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
No offense, but pure socialism will never work here, even though I believe we are on the way. A "workers paradise" will not work. Healthcare for all will not work here. what's the incentive to work harder if you won't be allowed to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

This is not a small landmass with 20 million people. The U.S. is huge with 300 million. It simply will not work. If everybody makes the same, where will the tax money come from?

This country was founded on the premise that if you work hard, stay out of trouble, help your friends and neihbors when they need it, the government will stay out of your way and let you succed. You have to simply look at public housing and welfare to see that it doesn't work.

The most important point, however, is that our constitution only gaurentes limited government.ation There is no promise of healthcare and jobs . Your life is how you make it, not decided by government beaurucrats who think they know more than you.

agreed here, i have often thought about it and the only way we can avoid a slaves paradise is to create automated technology, improve our production abilities by centers where we can make anything industrial using automation
We only agree to volunteer in some function 3 months a year or something and housing is free, transport is free because we volunteer. we would be free in equal knowledge. Governments are poor excuses for people not to know something and seek a hand out, plus it turns into an elitists paradise after a bit because socialism has always been a carrot in front of the ass. I think a society based in equal knowledge and motivation started correctly minus the classism, racisms, bigotry and lack of forgiveness would thrive in better happiness. forget government totally and grow up is my solution

[edit on 20-11-2008 by mastermind77]

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
No offense, but pure socialism will never work here, even though I believe we are on the way. A "workers paradise" will not work. Healthcare for all will not work here. what's the incentive to work harder if you won't be allowed to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

No offense taken. I tend to agree with you, pure socialism will never work in the US.

If everybody makes the same, where will the tax money come from?

Not everybody makes the same. You are thinking of communism.
With socialism, hard workers earn more money and likewise skilled professionals earn more. Therefore there is an incentive to work harder so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

reply to post by styxxz


point taken.

reply to post by switching yard


That is exactly what I was trying to say. I tend to lean toward isolationist as well. I think the vast majority of Americans will simply accept what is happening and not do anything to upset their comfotable lifestyles. Our forefathers went to war with the strongest nation on earth because of a few pennies. I just can't see that happening now.

I'm thinking maybe that one guy Titor who said there would be civil war might not be too far off the mark,granted people who own nothing and have nothing to lose will go with the flow but as things get worse I think the feces will hit the recirculating blade

reply to post by marg6043



Well, one thing is sure, we have been headed towards a socialistic state for quite some time. Only those who are totally ignorant do not realize that.

Too many do not keep up with current affairs. They scream that we live ina Democracy, but the facts are contrary to this statement. The 1960s pretty much threw Democracy proper out of the proverbial window.

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
No offense, but pure socialism will never work here, even though I believe we are on the way.

If you mean having the likes of a government run health care system with no private sector involvement at all then I am incline to agree with you .

what's the incentive to work harder if you won't be allowed to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

If I could afford private health insurance here in New Zealand I would certainly opt for it . Health Care aside there is many things for people including myself to work towards . Bear in mind that I can only speak for myself on this next bit . I desire to better myself regardless of the NZ health system .

If everybody makes the same, where will the tax money come from?

Look its not about everyone earning the same amount its about ensuring a level playing field so you don't end up with a ruling elite . At its worst a ruling elite can breed extremists as was seen in the lead up to 1917 in Russia . Clearly you have to certain measures such as Superannuation

This country was founded on the premise that if you work hard, stay out of trouble, help your friends and neihbors when they need it, the government will stay out of your way and let you succed.

Thats all good in all expect for such a idea to work you cant have corporate socialism which rules the US and is far worse then any government run health care system .

So I hope you've never used the library, never had the mail delivered to your house, don't and won't receive Social Security, don't ever have to use the police or fire department and you didn't go to public school. Just a few examples of the socialism you're so scared of.

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
reply to post by andy1033

 

Looks like you're correct, nothing we can do about it. I do believe that if the government tries something really radical, you will see a taxpayer revolt.

LOL. I'd love you to say all that # to the people of Latin America who have gone through all this before. You know what direction they're going to now? Socialism. So centuries after capitalist like what we've had these last eight years the people finally had enough and are rising up to take care of themselves. If you want more of the same of the last eight years that'll be #.

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
reply to post by titorite

 

I have read it, and it seems to be coming to pass here in the U.S. It will get really bad here if the government goes full blown all out power grab over the states, even though they're doing that now.

If they try a national gun registration, free housing for evenbody, I think you will see some states try to succed from the union.

You're kidding right? I don't think you've really read the manifesto if you think that #.

Originally posted by switching yard
I think it would be an interesting experiment to just get back to the original U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights.

We now have way too many expensive agencies that are not necessary. We have something like 300 military bases worldwide --- expensive and not really necessary. The I.R.S. -- taxation without representation when you consider that the general public did not want the trillion dollar bailout or any other bailouts. Citizens pay way too much in taxes, in my opinion. The Fed is totally unconstitutional --- our money should be issued by the USA and gold/silver backed.

And so forth and so on. We need certain regulations to prevent poisons from being in the food and coporations (including banks) from predatory rip-offs. We need a few social programs like pensions, for example, and limits on out-of-control health care price gouging. How these regulations and limits are set up is the problem because although I am in favor of some social programs that would be characteristic of a social democracy, I think the overriding form of our government should be the original U.S. Constitution.

We need to really get back to what the founding fathers wanted to have in this country, but with limitations to safeguard each other from bad elements of society. Is that possible?

1) With the military bases I think it should be up to not just the U.S. but with the other countries as well. If other countries don't need the U.S. there for security (like Germany perhaps) then the U.S. should respect those wishes and leave but still have an agreement to help each other out if they need.

2) IRS- The IRS also lets churches (rightwing ones of course) get away with all sorts of crap like the Mormon church doing politics with the Prop 8 and spending all that money and not getting in trouble. I remember in 2005 a guy at a church in California did a sermon on peace and didn't mention politics at all or any current events and he got in trouble by the IRS. If you're going to have that at least be consistent.

3) To get our money back we need to become a producing country again and sell items and not out source.

4) Where it concerns food poisoning and all that we need someone who does their job. We also need to pay off our debt to China and these other countries so people don't be afraid to be critical of such things.

Getting back to what the founding father wants is tricky since they all had their own visions. The only way to know for sure is the Constitution.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by givemeliberty or beer

 

America already has sectors in the government that works like socialism. It has been like that for a long time.

We are a nation that combines all systems of government to operate government from within.

It just that nobody really gives any attention of what government do unless somebody mention the word socialism.

In America we socialize debt and privatize profits. and then call it free markets and capitalism.

Uh no. As a communist I can say this is not socialism. If it is it's corporate socialism and not socialism as intended by Karl Marx because it's doing nothing to help the average worker.

Originally posted by styxxz

Originally posted by givemeliberty or beer
No offense, but pure socialism will never work here, even though I believe we are on the way. A "workers paradise" will not work. Healthcare for all will not work here. what's the incentive to work harder if you won't be allowed to enjoy the fruits of your labor?

No offense taken. I tend to agree with you, pure socialism will never work in the US.

If everybody makes the same, where will the tax money come from?

Not everybody makes the same. You are thinking of communism.
With socialism, hard workers earn more money and likewise skilled professionals earn more. Therefore there is an incentive to work harder so you can enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Uh no that's not even in communism. Socialism is communism except with the whole government. What you said with socialism is the same in communism. Communism is just the socialist utopia and nothing more.