How can you ask a question about Jesus w/o people thinking its an excuse to preach???

Just wondering? Because I've posted on here, genuine questions about what people think about different facets about Jesus, and for some reason always get people saying the thread is an excuse to preach.....

By that logic, isn't every post then, an excuse to talk about that post, whether its about Osama, NWO, or whatever???

And if that's so, then aren't all the boards here at ATS null & void???

I just dont seem to get this, even though I do understand that I'm sure there are people who use this sort of "trickery."

So how is one to distinguish the "trickery" from the genuine "wanting to know" what people think.

[edit on 11/20/08 by FredT]

There is a massive amount of hate toward Christianity on this site. Apparently its OK to preach about New Age Philosophy, UFO’s, Aliens, Pagan Religions, and all sorts of disputed Pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo, but not about Christianity. Of course if you cannot prove that you are talking about a Religious Conspiracy then it gets dumped to BTS anyway.

I think it's a problem of two halves. On one side you us atheists and non christians who don't recognise the bible as a "divine" item.

Then you have the devout preachy type who feel the need to "enlighten" the first group and to do so just quote scripture. This just ticks of the first group, and it happens a hell of a lot.

[edit on 20/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I think it's a problem of two halves. On one side you us atheists and non christians who don't recognise the bible as a "divine" item.

Then you have the devout preachy type who feel the need to "enlighten" the first group and to do so just quote scripture. This just ticks of the first group.

well said

we have our own opinions and dont want to be convinced to believe. I in fact think some of the more dubious new age stuff is bunk too but because I have not already read oodles and oodles about it I am prepared to read about it once or twice

You do it by asking a question about Jesus that pertains to the main topic of these forums- paranormal, conspiracies, psuedo science and the like.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by sadisticwoman]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Then you have the devout preachy type who feel the need to "enlighten" the first group and to do so just quote scripture. This just ticks of the first group.

I find it somewhat funny that the Non-believers spend so much time clicking on links in the religious forum where they stand a high probability at reading something that may be “preachy” and thus offending to themselves. Maybe you ca explain why that seem to occur here so much?

reply to post by defcon5


well in this case it was to answer the question in the title.

Originally posted by dominicus
How can u ask a question about Jesus w/o people thinking its an excuse to preach???

Preach them to death before they get a chance to?

Starting such a thread over at BTS might be a really good plan, unless it specifically deals with either a conspiracy or creationism. It's slower over there than at ATS, but you'll get plenty of answers if it's a good question.

It's also a good idea, in my opinion, to try and phrase your question in a way that doesn't set up the believer vs. non-believer fight.

So, if your question is about Jesus, you could specify what kind of answer you're looking for by specifying what point of view you mean. For instance, are you asking what the Bible says about him? Then say "What does the Bible say that ..." and then when trolls start bopping you on the head with "but the Bible was written by men not god" you can just point out that you asked what the Bible said.

Or if you want to know about the historical Jesus, ask that. Then the Bible can be treated as one source among many and you can thank people who say, "well according to Mark he ..." for their input and ask if anyone else has any information from other sources.

Christianity gets bashed all the time here (I'm allowed to say that, because I'm an agnostic ) What really gets me is that all of Christianity gets bashed for all the sins of all of Christianity. So Catholics get bashed for the crusades but also for creationism, and evangelic sects get bashed for creationism but also for the crusades. It's all very confused.

I think the most important thing to avoid being accused of preaching is not to preach – even when people try to bait you into it, which I have seen. If you can talk about what you believe without demanding that others believe it also, or telling them that they are damned for their beliefs, that's a big help. And I know that most Christians can and do avoid that, but unfortunately there are some here who don't, and most of us agnostic/atheists have run into others who don't in our real lives, so we get defensive.

And we forget that Christians run into similar persecution in their own lives, if not from atheists, then from Christians of other denominations.

I hope some of that was helpful to you. It boils down to: try the Faith forum on BTS, be specific in your question, and don't bash back even if someone tries to derail your thread by accusing you of preaching.

As Defcon said, if atheists and agnostics don't want to be told about Jesus, we should probably just stop opening threads called things like "On the Nature of the Trinity"

reply to post by dominicus


Honestly, there is only one way I have personally experienced that usually works:

Find a biblical passage yourself, that contains the words of Jesus, then ask them about that specifically.

*edit: americandingbat pretty much said what i'm thinking


[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by dominicus
Just wondering? Because I've posted on here, genuine questions about what people think about different facets about Jesus, and for some reason always get people saying the thread is an excuse to preach.....

By that logic, isn't every post then, an excuse to talk about that post, whether its about Osama, NWO, or whatever???

And if that's so, then aren't all the boards here at ATS null & void???

I just dont seem to get this, even though I do understand that I'm sure there are people who use this sort of "trickery."

So how is one to distinguish the "trickery" from the genuine "wanting to know" what people think.

When the question itself is shown to be a strawman but the people asking the question persists with it - despite increasingly overwhelming evidence that 'debunks' the initial thinking - then I think it's fair that the people being asked the question in the first place started to ponder on why the question is still being asked.

Many Christians point out that it's they're obliged to proslytise, so is it any wonder that many people are suspicious as to why at least some questions are asked? Particularly if a particular question is replied to and shown that the initial thinking on the part of the Christian asking the question isn't what they they thought it to and yet the thread and the questioning still continues as if the questioners aren't taking the replies on board.

At that point in time, it's little wonder that some people are wondering whether the 'question' was actually just a mechanism to create a platform for preaching.

I've just gone and read through the first 3 pages of the thread that I assume the OP is referring to, and I want to add to my comments above.

The title of that thread is "Why do so many people hate Jesus?"

I saw a lot of atheists/agnostics give you the same answers over and over again: "we don't hate Jesus, we hate Christians."

That seems like a perfectly good and reasonably respectful answer to me, even in some of the angrier forms that it was expressed. I personally suspect that the people you encounter in real life who react poorly or angrily when you bring up Jesus are similarly reacting not out of hate for Jesus himself (the man or character or god, whatever the individual believes) but out of dislike for organized christianity, and probably with some specific bad experiences to tie that dislike to.

You got a couple responses that were very interesting (I think Nohup was one, I forget the other) in that they specified a part of Jesus' teaching that they had philosophical issues with (feeling that a religion that relies on an "other" to save us causes complacency and laziness). That's a really interesting point, but you didn't even thank them for it, or engage it in any way. It looked almost as though you didn't notice that they had answered your question – like it wasn't important whether anyone answered.

You also gave very little weight to all the people who had taken your question at face value and replied genuinely that it wasn't Jesus they had a problem with but Christians.

I'm not suggesting that you actually did make that thread as a platform for preaching, but I am suggesting that it might help to be more clear in your own mind what your asking and what answers you are willing to hear before you post such a loaded question that attributes a feeling to others. And it never hurts to thank people for answering even if you don't like the answers given

edit to add: in my first post here, I said one important thing is not to preach, even if you're baited into it. I definitely saw that process starting in the "why do people hate Jesus" thread – you were starting to talk much more about your experience of God and Jesus and enlightenment, rather than about our feelings, which was what you asked people for. There's nothing wrong with a thread about your spiritual awakening, although I think it would be better off in the Gray Area, BTS Faith forum, or maybe Psychology and Metaphysics. But your OP implied that it would be a thread about the feelings of non-believers, yet it started to turn into a thread about your feelings.

[edit on 11/20/08 by americandingbat]

Originally posted by americandingbat

The title of that thread is "Why do so many people hate Jesus?"

I saw a lot of atheists/agnostics give you the same answers over and over again: "we don't hate Jesus, we hate Christians."

I hate hate.

I don't hate Jesus (actually I am a fan)
I don't hate Christians.
I don't hate Christianity.
I don't hate Christian Churches.
I hate hate.
Christianity breeds much of it. I hate that.

Nicely put, Mr. Lunacy.

And may I add that those are some mighty purty sheep you got there?

reply to post by americandingbat


Thank you

I used tearless animal dye! *tested in human trials*

On the other hand look at this, minutes after posting in this thread someone went over to a thread on a Christian topic simply to put in a off topic, uncalled for, insulting, one line post simply to inflame folks talking about prophecy. No good reason, nothing quality added to the thread, simply a chance to take a knock at Christianity.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by defcon5
There is a massive amount of hate toward Christianity on this site. Apparently its OK to preach about New Age Philosophy, UFO’s, Aliens, Pagan Religions, and all sorts of disputed Pseudoscience mumbo-jumbo, but not about Christianity. Of course if you cannot prove that you are talking about a Religious Conspiracy then it gets dumped to BTS anyway.

is true that there is a massive amunt of hate towards christianity on this site?? how come...? and whats BTS by the way...

reply to post by defcon5


I agree that Christianity-bashing and Christianity-baiting and Christianity-taunting all go on here at ATS, probably even more than bashing, baiting, and taunting of atheists and agnostics by Christians (although we get that too).

But that kind of comment doesn't need a response.

If my second response on this thread seems too harsh, I apologize. I really was just trying to explain to the OP where I thought the thread had veered off into believer vs. non-believer, and how he could have responded differently to avoid further accusations of preaching, if that is a concern to him.

edit:

@tinkerbel: BTS stands for BelowTopSecret, which is ATS's more lighthearted sister site. Anything non-conspiracy gets talked about there. It's a lot of fun, I definitely recommend checking it out. You do have to login separately, but your username and password are the same there as here.

As for why there's a lot of hatred toward Christianity here, that could take years to explain

Very often, people's only real life experience with Christians has been very unpleasant, and they project the judgmentalism and hatred that they find among some Christians on the religion as a whole. In addition, you can blame the more offensive of the anti-abortion and anti-gay rights activists for some of the anger towards Christians and Christianity. Then there's all the churches led by preachers who encourage their flock to give tons of money to support their lavish lifestyle. Finally you have the fact that many New World Order theorists link that conspiracy in with the high levels of the Catholic Church, so that's another reason to hate Christians . . .

[edit on 11/20/08 by americandingbat]

reply to post by defcon5


Defcon5 with all due respect, that is a can you do not want to open...

We could flood this thread with examples from both sides.

I personally could flood this thread myself with off topic posts from Christians that just wanted to throw scripture at someone or tell someone how immoral they are.

Seriously not a door you want to open.

[edit on 20-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

reply to post by thinkerbel


BTS is “Below Top Secret”, it’s the forum for off topic stuff. I very seldom visit it, so to be its like the black hole of posts.