(terrorism) More US Deaths follow Iraqi Butchery

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Braatz]

What's the result of all this occupation nonsense supposed to be? To establish an estranged, democratic nation surrounded by terrorism sponsoring nations?

The killing will go on and on and on...

Were these men who were killed and mutilated mercenaries? Were they carrying firearms?

I am totally aghast what was done to them (mob mentality obviously), but what were they doing in Fallujah knowing what kind of sentiments there are there?

Wouldn't you figure that within 3 minutes there would be some backup there? Like some American APCs showing up afterwards? All the footage I saw of the crowds and I didn't see any military.

The US needs to get the hell out of there, get some UN soldiers in there.


jako

What were they doing in Fallujah?

They were guarding food shipments.

(there is lots of banditry).

The food was for the people.

cant stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

nobody invited you into iraq. it was an invasion remember.

They dont want your food, they prefer their dignity of not being a conquered people

So the solution is to get out??? The horse is gone, the barn door is open, what should be done?

Everybody on both sides seem to have a surfeit of rhetoric but very little in the way of an actual plan.

the solution is the destruction of israel, your puppetmaster

The solution is to make israel get the hell out of the west bank for ever

Nice rhetoric but really, one thing at a time. Should the US up and leave Iraq before or after they destroy Israel?

See if you're gonna convince me, you need concrete plans not abstract slogans

Nice rhetoric but really, one thing at a time. Should the US up and leave Iraq before or after they destroy Israel?

See if you're gonna convince me, you need concrete plans not abstract slogans
Yes the U.S. should up and leave Iraq, The invaders will leave in disgrace just like the President has led in disgrace.
Who is supposed to destroy Israel,the U.S. or Iraq? You weren't very clear on that point.
All this support of Israel is the cause of these problems anyways,maybe we should destroy them or at least pay them back for 911. OOps,i forgot.thats what we are doing in Iraq.

They should have had a gunship slaughter the cheering crowd and do the same EVERY time. The Iraqi would run out of cheering butchers long before we ran out of bullets

Well, this is a war...Things like that happens...on both side. Do you know how our soldiers took care of the leading people of Iraq (except Saddam because, we wanted to show him)? That's something we won't see on TV because, we are probably just as barbarian as they are. Like others said, the US invaded them, they are not happy about it and I can understand it. let's imagine that Iraqis would come and invade the US and destroy our cities and all. WOuld you be happy about it? If you would be able to catch a few iraqis, would you just say "hi, nice to meet you!" I'm not so sure, you'd want some revenge and altho you might be religious, it would no longer count and you'd probably become as violent as they were. The line between sanity and insanity is very thin sometimes...

Originally posted by Jakomo
Were these men who were killed and mutilated mercenaries? Were they carrying firearms?

I am totally aghast what was done to them (mob mentality obviously), but what were they doing in Fallujah knowing what kind of sentiments there are there?

Wouldn't you figure that within 3 minutes there would be some backup there? Like some American APCs showing up afterwards? All the footage I saw of the crowds and I didn't see any military.

The US needs to get the hell out of there, get some UN soldiers in there.


jako

I got this headline from debka. On who these people were.>>>>Three of four Americans ambushed and dragged through Fallujah streets identified as two Army veterans and one Navy SEAL employed by Blackwater Security Consulting: Jerko Zovko, 32, Michael Teague, 38 and Scott Helvenston, 38. The remains of all four were recovered and handed over to US forces.

Originally posted by Ashlar
the solution is the destruction of israel, your puppetmaster

I wouldnt say the destruction of Israel, exactly. I'd say that the Likud party needs to be added to the global list of terrorists, we need to stop doing business with them and we need to stop giving them money and weapons for their mock crusades. Screw Sharon.

Originally posted by deevee
Nice rhetoric but really, one thing at a time. Should the US up and leave Iraq before or after they destroy Israel?

See if you're gonna convince me, you need concrete plans not abstract slogans

Pull back to southern iraq/kuwait. Get out of the Sunni triangle with the exception of Baghdadn. Get the UN into Baghdad, only-- minimal US forces. Stop doing armed raids. We havent even given these people a chance to try and establish a government for their country. We need the UN and less military presence and a little bit of time.

And dont try to install that puppet, Chalabi. That wont go over well.

[Edited on 2-4-2004 by GanjaGoddess]

Good article on Blackwater USA< the mercenary company that these guys worked for.

www.motherjones.com...

"When Blackwater opened in 1998, the business of war didn't look like such a sure bet. "This was a roulette, a crapshoot," recalls Jackson, a former Navy seal. During the Gulf War, the Pentagon had begun replacing soldiers with private contractors, relying on civilian businesses to provide logistical support to troops on the front lines. Blackwater's founders were banking on predictions that the military was eager to speed up the process, privatizing many jobs traditionally reserved for uniformed troops. Their investment paid off: Since the attacks of September 11, the company has seen its business boom -- enough to warrant a major expansion of its training facility this year. "To contemplate outsourcing tactical, strategic, firearms-type training -- high-risk training -- is thinking outside the box," Jackson says. "Is this happening? Yes, this is happening."...

The push to privatize war got its start during the administration of the elder President Bush. After the Gulf War ended, the Pentagon, then headed by Defense Secretary Dick Cheney, paid a Halliburton subsidiary called Brown & Root Services nearly $9 million to study how private military companies could provide support for American soldiers in combat zones. Cheney went on to serve as CEO of Halliburton -- and Brown & Root, now known as Halliburton KBR, has since been awarded at least $2.5 billion to construct and run military bases, some in secret locations, as part of the Army's Logistics Civil Augmentation Program. In March, the Pentagon hired Cheney's former firm to fight fires in Iraq if Saddam Hussein sabotages oil wells during a U.S. attack....

Because the Geneva Convention expressly bans the use of mercenaries -- individual soldiers of fortune who fight solely for personal gain -- private military companies are careful to distance themselves from any associations with such hired guns. To emphasize their experience and professionalism, many firms maintain websites brimming with colorful PR material; the industry even funds an advocacy group, the International Peace Operations Association, which portrays military firms as more capable and accountable than the Pentagon. "These companies want to run a professional operation," says the group's director, Doug Brooks. "Their incentive is to make money. How do you make money? You make sure you don't screw up."

... The lack of oversight alarms some members of Congress. "Under a shroud of secrecy, the United States is carrying out military missions with people who don't have the same level of accountability," says Rep. Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), a leading congressional critic of privatized war. "We have individuals who are not obligated to follow orders or follow the Military Code of Conduct. Their main obligation is to their employer, not to their country."

Good stuff to know.

Good article on Blackwater. They will serve a very useful purpose in Iraq and other hotspots.

Several news articles this morning saying that the slaughter of these 3 men and one woman seems to have positive effect for US; condemnation of the slaughter has coalesced support world-wide, opposite of what these murdering terrorist cowards wanted or expected. Retaliation in Fallujah will be severe.

john

[Edited on 25-4-2004 by Braatz]

Has anyone noticed the mainstream media has serious amnesia. It was widely reported the day of the atrocity that a WOMAN was one of the victims. Suddenly, no one mentioned it again. Now they say it was four men. I believe there was a woman with them and they're covering it up.

BTW, the victims were security, as noted above. They were not guarding food shipments to Iraqi civilians, as it was suggested in a comment above.

Also, a few days before the Fallujah incident, women and children in the city had been murdered, most likely by these mercenaries. No wonder the people were so torqued up. Anyone who just lost their family members in such a senseless brutal way would be.

They have released the identity of all four men.

Jerko "Jerry" Zovko, 32; Scott Helvenston, 38; Michael Teague, 38; and Wesley Batalona, 48.