Credit Card Bubble is next wave of pain for U.S.

Well, I for one never got sucked into the credit card game.

I own everything I have with cash, bought and paid for. This means that I actually have ASSETS rather than debt.

I have zero sympathy to those that have run out and racked up thousands and thousands of dollars in debt. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

One way or the other, you gave into instant gratification and now you must pay the piper. Did you not read EVERY line on the back of that CC application? You would have to be retarded IMHO to sign that piece of paper.

I will not debate the "evil" of the CC companies. They are scum of the highest order. The "buy now pay later" scheme and the price you will pay is CLEARLY defined on the back. Rule number one folks: If the legal mumbo jumbo is too complicated for you to understand....DO NOT SIGN IT until you have had it translated.

They do not care if you are reduced to eating Ramen noodles and living in a tent down by the river to pay your debt. They are ruthless bastards, trust me I know.

We may see a time when those in debt up too their eyeballs will experience a lovely vacation doing time in a FEMA debtors work camp.

Damn... Talk about being a slave to your debt!

You are the cows. The sheep. You have willingly signed your future away along with that of your children and grandchildrens. If you have found yourself in this situation and are looking for someone to blaim, you need only to look in the mirror.




[edit on 19-11-2008 by bismarcksea]

This will be very interesting to see how this all unfolds. I too believe the dollar bubble will take it's turn bursting.

We have like many reduced our expenses and are putting away as much as we can. My hope has been that the dollar will stay strong.

We are ok for now but if the dollar bottoms out I just don't know. Either we use money or we use credit. It looks like many have dug their own graves with credit cards but what about the rest of us that were paying up front and saving money if the dollar is devalued we won't be any better off then our over extended counterparts.

If the dollar fails I think what we are in for will be far worse than the Great Depression Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the dollar hold it's value during the Great Depression?

It makes people feel better if they can single out one side or the other as being the guilty party feeling if we can just get rid of "them" all our troubles will be over. So much of what is going on is so complex and intertwined with deceit, manipulation and private agendas. There is no left or right as we perceive it there is only greed and power.

Maybe some of us are more guilty than others but I think the average American will all be equally screwed. Maybe a lot of people were dipping a little too deep into the credit pocket but our leaders often set bad examples for those predisposed to negative influences. Every week one can read in the paper about this Senator or that Congressman accepting favors or misappropriating funds this in no way excuses anyone but imo our leaders have set the tone.

In recent years my husband and I have wondered what happened to that image of the stingy banker of old. This man doled out cash like it was coming out of his own pocket. Loans and credit were not daily transactions. "Someone" decided to let loose the beast for whatever reason or private agenda.

Look at the credit cards lined up at colleges...These young adults have just moved out into the world, completely used to living with mom and dad and the financial security that parents provided. They have no concept of how much it actually costs to do laundry, how fast your food budget gets depleted by having a pizza during study group etc.

This is where the trouble begins, these kids who have every intention of paying it back, but all of a sudden have dug themselves into a hole.

Instead of responsible financial courses to our children they see Visa/Mastercard logos everywhere. Commercials geared toward the prestige of having "their" card, Commercials that say it couldn't have been done without that American Express Card. Hotels, will they hold your reservation without one, can you book a flight in advance without one? Do you have any purchase protection for a transaction made with a debit card? the answer is no.

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
reply to post by tgidkp

 

Just answer one question for me.

Who forced you to take out a credit card and rack up 20k in debt?

The system is entirely voluntary, and has existed for millenia. The only other alternative is Islamic Banking, where interest cannot be charged as it is considered usury. Perhaps you should move to Saudi Arabia if you feel that the current system used in the free world is "evil".

reply to post by angelonmyshoulder

Why is it some of us can clearly see the risk involved in credit ad campaigns directed at such a financially inexperienced bunch?

I just can't seem to get past that same nagging question. Why was this whole state of credit gluttony not only promoted but encouraged? The drawbacks to this system of runaway credit certainly drew red flags so we were rewarded/controlled if you will via our "credit scores" damn number of the beast Well I guess it didn't work as well as they thought. Or did it?

This whole financial toilet flush just reeks of orchestration. I don't know just my opinion.

You make an excellent point there is a need for credit cards car rentals come to mind.

Either way this sucks. I just want some assurance if it's all going down we go down together. I want to see some of these power players getting on with the business of jumping out of some pretty high windows or being run outta town on a rail but come on instead we entrust them with billions more???

Many people did financially overextend themselves between the house "ATM" and the "charge it syndrome" - They got a lot of encouragement between the media and individual stores as well as banks calling up every other day trying to sell you a home equity loan.

My question is didn't Wall Street and the Banks do the same exact thing with their corporate credit?

Why is it that we the people have to dig ourselves out of the credit hole but we have to dig out the corporations as well?

Originally posted by Morningglory


Maybe some of us are more guilty than others but I think the average American will all be equally screwed. Maybe a lot of people were dipping a little too deep into the credit pocket but our leaders often set bad examples for those predisposed to negative influences. Every week one can read in the paper about this Senator or that Congressman accepting favors or misappropriating funds this in no way excuses anyone but imo our leaders have set the tone.

reply to post by 44soulslayer


While debt may be voluntary for some people, the "system" is not.

If the system was voluntary then what is stopping me from living under a tree and eating fruit and wearing nothing but leaves and animal furs? What's stopping me from moving to Saudi Arabia? Maybe the fact that life outside the system would suck big time.

The system, as it exists penalizes saving money. No savings account pays the true rate of inflation. So the best anyone can do with their money is invest in the stock market just to stay afloat, or spend it all.

If people are dying to get credit cards and debt, then why would it be necessary to saturate mailboxes with offers? Why would it be necessary to make promises that are not effectively kept once you read the "fine print" why would fine print even exist if it wasn't as a deliberate effort to mislead?

Every "system" favors the top players in the system. And in this system that is bound to be the wealthiest. It should be no surprise when the bottom ranking players say that the system sucks for them.

-rrr

reply to post by VelmaLu


I once read that the NWO's agenda is not just money. So the elite could bankrupt the whole system in order to put plans that they have into action. The leaders of the NWO are willing to let some of their fellow elitest fail in order to accomplish their agenda.

The NWO has enough money and whatever else it needs to survive a financial or nuclear melt down. When it's over they can pick up the pieces and even rescue some of their boys that went bankrupt when the crisis began.

Originally posted by VelmaLu
I wonder if anyone in the federal government has researched the level of pain the citizenry will endure. . . at what point will they throw up their hands and say, "I give up, take the house, take the car, we'll go camping permanently."

. . . Or, where 4 out of five members of the same family default on all their obligations, and move in with the remaining member with the least debt, just so everyone can eat.

It can't go on. People will start to get desperate. Man, the level of anxiety alone is enough to send us over the edge.

Did they not understand that we were angry about bailing out the bankers?

What happens when the banks own half the houses, and they are empty? What is going to happen when there are no more consumers. . . no one to buy the houses, no one selling stuff for people to buy on credit, or when the only people left are those who don't need credit?

Does the PTB and the elite understand that when the rest of America is broke and broken down, there will be no one to buy their gold? When your house is gone, when you don't have enough to eat, when you don't have a job, and you have no hope, are you really going to worry about taxes?

Don't they get it that they are plotting their own demise as well?

What they also fail to figure in is the point at which they stop, look around and then their mental state breaks at the pressure and stress and then they go purchase a fire arm and take all the anger and suffering from stress and they go on a head hunting mission to hunt down the people who seem to be calling the shots. It's very scary but people are getting push to that point it's only a matter of time. I see with all the lay-offs and C.E.O.s flying in to D.C. on private jets and asking for money and A.I.G. bail-outs and such where people are going to start striking back at what they deem the root of the problem.

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by 44soulslayer

 

While debt may be voluntary for some people, the "system" is not.

In 1992 my mother gave me her house. I didn't have any credit whatsoever good or bad since I had made a point of avoiding it.

Well the house needed the work and I owned it outright so I went to the banks for a line of credit to work on it with... the banks wouldn't even talk to me. They wanted to see a credit history... You would have thought owning the house outright would have been enough... but no... I ended up having to go through finance companies and it became a nightmare.

Originally posted by anachryon

Consumer greed is as much a cause of the current economic crisis as is corporate greed.

Greed is a given - it's human nature. Different social systems moderate it in different ways. Western Capitalism exploits it. Corporations expend vast resources stimulating consumer greed through advertising. They have to in a debt based fractional reserve monetary system that is dependent upon ever-expanding consumerism. Ultimately, as we are seeing, this is not sustainable in the long term.

Do we bicker at each other about who's guilty for borrowing too much or do we challenge those who uphold and defend a system that cannot function without creating ever-increasing debt?

Don't be too smug about being out of debt. If you're a US citizen as of today you owe $34,950. That's your share of your government's $10,576,928,649,984 national debt. Er... that number just went up again.
Not your personal debt? So who d'you suppose is going to pay it?
U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

As well as the credit card debt, the commercial real estate debt is now getting coverage:

Investor worries swelled after Credit Suisse analysts said two big, new commercial loans were near default. That fanned fears that credit deterioration that has already saturated the residential mortgage market and worsened in credit cards was heading to a major new area, commercial real estate.

Reuters Wed Nov 19, 2008

Hi Grover, my wife applied for a CC about a month ago ( Vanquish ) after losing her part-time job, and was refused because she had never had any debt in her life ( age 62 ) Reason given was that she was an ' unknown ' and had no credit rating. Is this not in effect punishment for not running up bad debts ? Strange days indeed

I must chime in and tell my story of debt. You see, I came from a working family just outside of Detroit. I never had a lot of money and started my first job at the gas station when I was 14. We had to lie about my age to get me the job.

And no, this is not a 'poor old me' story, nor is it a 'mightier than thou' story either. It is just my story of a lesson learned.

I worked throughout high school. My wonderful, amazing parents insisted that I go to a parochial school. I was not one of the poorest kids there (the ones that get assistance) nor was I near average or the elite, as you will. I was just the lower to middle class kid at a parochial school. That school got me into a good state college. And that is where it began.

First, student loans. There was no way in hell I could afford tuition, and my family could not either. Thank goodness for these student loans.

Second, credit cards. I remember it vividly... I had just opened my student credit union account so the money I made in the cafeteria at the International Center could be deposited and tied to my student ID card. I could then use that card like a debit card all over campus.
.... but there I am in line to purchase books - ouch! so expensive! Ah, but right next to the book store is the MBNA desk! They were giving away vouchers for free pizza if you apply for an MBNA credit card. Problem solved!

I applied. Started racking up my first debt. The snowball effect soon followed after having trumped up charges brought to me by the campus police. (They insisted that I was a drug dealer because I smoked pot - filed 2 felonies against me - that is expensive to fight!) By the time I was out of college, I not only had a ton of student loans to pay off, but I also had $15k in credit card debt. Best of all, the banks kept raising the limits despite my paying only minimums. Is that their fault? Not necessarily - I mean, I am an adult and should therefore be responsible. But what kind of lender would keep lending to a high risk person? Bad business if you ask me.

So I start paying things off so I can start saving to settle down and get a house... but 9/11 happens and my company goes under. Debt crawls back. By 2003 I was $35K in the hole to credit cards!

Fast forward.... I only use my checking account debit card now. ONLY. I will use a credit card if I need to rent a car, but otherwise it is cash only for me. I still have about $17K left to pay... and I am paying $1K/mo now. It is a pain. It is a hindrance... but it is the price to pay.

I learned... hell, I learned my lesson real good. Sure, the CC companies are evil for targeting young consumers and encouraging them to go into debt but at the same time I think there was a period where the problem had not emerged yet and people were ignorant as to how quickly you can get absolutely overtaken by stupid consumer debt. It is bad.

It is my bed, and I sleep in it. I own very little - no home, no car, no real assets. I work in the city, have a good job and rent. If the s**t hits the fan within the next 2 years (which looks likely) and I cannot keep paying $1K per month to get rid of this debt then I will have to suck it up and file bankruptcy. Right now I have a near-800 credit score though, so I would rather just suck it up and get this debt behind me ASAP so I can start building real wealth.

If a credit card crisis emerges, can I get a bailout? You know, maybe $15 to $17K? Thanks Sam!

My mother-in-law who passed away in 2002 had received some credit cards un-solicited in 1994 from Standard Bank. She thought she could use one. Although she never used it but she was paying $ 40/00 a month. In 1999 Standard bank was baught by Bank One. My mother-in-law was a retiree living off meagre pension. She was one of those Americans that trusted her Government very much and used to taught me oftern that" we have laws in this country." In 2001 I found that she owed $2500 to Bank One and was making her sick because she couldn't pay that sum. So I got involved and wrote letters to CEO in Chicago hearquarter but they didn't move from their position. To begin with they didn't want to communicate with me even though I sent a copy of authorization to work on behalf of my mother-in-law. They never explained why my mother-in-law owed them $2500 on top of $ 40/00 that she was paying every month. So I filed a complaint to the Federal Government in Texas who had jurisdiction over Chicago. As far I know they were working for the banks and never satisfied me. At the end they closed the case because the bank told them that it is old account. I never trusted the Banks or the Government. Never had credit card. Today I carry only debit card because I am forced into it. I never cared for credit ratings, but the auto Insurance raised my premium because they couldn't find my credit. Living in USA for over 35 years that own my own home, have a family and baught cars etc. but they cannot find my credit or credit rating. This is control that I am strugglling not to fall into. If we stay together as Americans, we can fight the BS.

reply to post by angelonmyshoulder


WWI bubble
WWII bubble
stock market bubble
Great Depression bubble
Korea bubble
Vietnam bubble
anti-communism bubble
private prison bubble
dot-com bubble
terrorist bubble
financial bubble
stock market bubble - cont
credit card bubble
fascism bubble
capitalism bubble
THE Fed is a bubble, pop it now! Restore the currency-issuing power to the U.S. treasury, remove the currency-issuing power from the private bankers and return it to the public!

Note: all these bubbles are owned and created and destroyed by the private shareholders of the fed/city of london. which is why I say the war against terrorism is
(the private owners of the fed/city of london) vs (the rest of us)

Who are the real terrorist bubble makers, the bankers or their victims?


[edit on 19-11-2008 by counterterrorist]

reply to post by 44soulslayer


I think being self-righteous will back fire pretty quickly, as everyone is going to get into trouble. The system is broken and was destined to be so. it was badly designed in the first place. The proof is before our eyes.

My hope has been that the dollar will stay strong.

We are ok for now but if the dollar bottoms out I just don't know. Either we use money or we use credit.

reply to post by Morningglory


The dollar's rise IS temporary. The more it stays strong, the more jobs will be lost to other countries. Remember, Germany, China and Japan are still manufacturing powerhouses. You're not.

reply to post by eldard

I fully agree there will be more job losses. I suggest the reported rate of unemployment is actually higher as it does not include those whose benefits have run out or those who do not qualify.

During the Great Depression unemployment I believe was about 25% - 30%. The dollar held in light of that rate of unemployment. Certainly there were less dollars in circulation with so many out of work. But a dollar was still of value.

So what are you implying are you saying the fact that we are no longer a manufacturing powerhouse will negatively impact the value of the dollar in this modern economic climate as opposed to that of the Great Depression?

Many are under the impression that somewhat fail-safe procedures have since been adopted to avoid future economic failure. Imo at that time they could not foresee our present state.

Our citizens/government carries the burden of heavy debt unlike any previous generations/administrations. I believe this "fiat currency" is a modern innovation seems like we have always had silver or gold backed currency.

I do see great economic differences today that will surely come into play in ways yet to be fully realized or appreciated.

I'm not all doom and gloom I always have a plan "B" c,d,e,f & g if I have to. I was hoping the dollar would hold but I have no faith in how our currency is currently backed.

Credit it seems is in the toilet so the dollar is our only foothold. What do you see happening? I would be interested in hearing more.

I see this happening. I found myself in Credit Card hell too. I was laid off from work in 2001. I made two more large payments from my severance package. Seems the insurance I had taken out on my card had changed the rules. In the original contract that I signed I was to report unemployment within 90 days. In their revised policy they changed that to 10 days. When I called and explained the situation before being late they basically said to "!uck off".

I argued with them and pleaded to just give me time to find a new job and it would be taken care of. Well, well they upped my interest rate to 60%. In the end my original balance of 3000 (one notebook pc and a few computer parts) ended up 15000. I apologized and basically told the guy there is no way I could or would even try to pay that off.

Remember that I had a contract for insurance that I signed. I made a case with them that I never signed and approved the revised contract. Either give me the insurance money to pay back on the debt or cancel the debt. They canceled the debt. It took two years but, they cleared the account.

I still have a credit card but, my use of it is limited to what I can pay back in a month. It could've been worse I know many that use their cards to make house and car payments. Those same folks get even more cards to pay off the old cards.

Scary Scenario!


[edit on 21/11/08 by toochaos4u]

So what are you implying are you saying the fact that we are no longer a manufacturing powerhouse will negatively impact the value of the dollar in this modern economic climate as opposed to that of the Great Depression?

reply to post by Morningglory


Currently no. The only real reason the dollar is strong is because investors see it as a safe haven (along with the yen.) The exporting countries except Japan will not be that much affected as long as the dollar is strong because they can keep on selling to you for as long as possible.

When the dollar tanks it would be interesting to see if you'll be forced to start making things you need again and this should help (in creating some jobs) a bit. We can only guess. Also another question is if other countries will be able to afford American goods?


[edit on 21-11-2008 by eldard]

I think some folks on this thread (44soulslayer, et al) are being judgmental for a couple of reasons.

a) They have made enough money (or have it handed to them from daddy's trust fund) that they don't have any empathy for those who have not had the privilege.

b) They are young enough and have had so little life experience that they have never lived under a bridge, at the Salvation Army, or had their employer declare bankrupcty, making off with a month's pay and all of your retirement (can't sue a company that doesn't exist, can ya??) I've had every one of those adventures.

c) they have a psychological need to say "that's not me; I'm better than that person" in order to cover up the financial realities upon which their own comforts are predicated.

Some folks are greedy and irresponsible. Some folks are uneducated.

Some are caring for a child dying of cancer. You can blow off the chemo, since it quit working months ago. Makes her throw up all the time anyway. But you'll do anything to buy her the pain pills, won't you?

So you use the credit card because the pain pills are---non-formulary on her plan. Even though you cannot afford 30% interest, or whatever the hellbanks decide to change it too, once they find out that you're being terminated for all the absenteeism you racked up traveling back and forth to MD Anderson in Houston.

Personally, you can stay at the salvation army once you default on the home loan. But you're wife and kids cannot since it's men only. Maybe you're wife can say that she's afraid you'll hit her, and can stay at safe place with the kids for 6 weeks or so.

But they won't let your daughter stay at safe place because she's too sick. And the hospital won't take her except in the ER, and then they expel once a doctor declares her stable. CPS will take her, and put her in a group home and let her die alone, apart from anyone but some strangers who cannot even rember her name.

Yep, it's all your fault for using a credit card to forestall the inevitable for 6 weeks.



At least it's not you.

.