The Essence of Jiddu Krishnamuti

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I'm afraid I don't really like to delve too deep into philosophy anymore because it always leads me to the same lonely and reality smashing conclusion. How can you be comfortable with that, really?

That is the precise issue with philosophy and thought in general.
The teaching here is to enable one to free one's self of the layer upon layer of philosophies and mind created concepts thus revealing the "truth" within. Thus the ambition, for lack of a better word, is not to add new information but to strip the existing one away.

reply to post by snc24


No, haven't read it, but I'm interested, Can you summarize?

reply to post by schrodingers dog


That's exactly right. JK is more about throwing off concepts, than taking new concepts and mind-structures on. He was not an academic in any way, and always tried to simplify questions and cut through terminology.

reply to post by schrodingers dog



No I know the truth (as much as one can know truth, that is.... but I could be wrong or hallucinating). It helps, I'll admit... but whenever I'm alone with myself and my mind gets wide... I know why there is duality.

What would you be if there was no existence that duality creates?

You would be a completely empty no-thing.

Have you ever remembered eternity before?

Maybe I just haven't grown accustomed to the overwhelming feeling of it.


[edit on 17-11-2008 by dunwichwitch]

reply to post by dunwichwitch


Perhaps this will bring some comfort:

That Which Thought Never Touches

The human condition is characterized by a compulsive and obsessive personal relationship to thought. At its best, thought is a symbolic representation of reality; at its worst, thought takes the place of reality. Our thoughts describe and interpret both the external world and our internal experiences. To conceive of a life lived any other way is incomprehensible to most people. Thought tells us who we are; what we believe; what is right and wrong; what we should feel; what is true and what is false; and how we fit into this event called "life." We literally create ourselves and our lives out of thought. Further, we associate the end of thought with sleep, unconsciousness, or death. It is this very personal relationship with thought that is the cause of all the fear, ignorance, and suffering which characterizes the human condition, and which destroys the manifestation of true Love in this life.


As long as your experience of self and life is defined by the mechanical, conditioned, and compulsive movement of thought, you are bound to a very, very limited perception of what is real. But imagine a relationship to thought that was impersonal. This would mean that you were no longer compulsively defining and interpreting yourself and your experience by the movement of thought. If this were the case, you would no longer be limited by the conditioned perspective of thought. Suddenly your entire perspective would shift away from thought to that which was the very ground and source of all thought. A source which, because it wasn't being compulsively interpreted by thought, would be experienced as it actually is for the first time.


Why is this so important? Because when you are able to perceive this Source, you are actually in direct experiential contact with the truth of your own being. Out of that contact the possibility is ripe to suddenly awaken to who and what you really are--the Self--pure consciousness.


The Self is the context within which thought arises. Manifestation in the world of time arises as a wave out of the ocean of eternal consciousness. But the human condition is defined by a very personal and compulsive relationship to thought, which makes this realization impossible unless you are able, either suddenly or gradually, to let go of the compulsive need to know and understand with the mind. You must become more interested in the context within which thought and all experience arises than in the false security of thought itself. Most people find this very difficult because facing the context, which is prior to all knowing, is literally stepping into the unknown, which is the last place most people want to go. Why? Because thought always seeks security in itself, which is the known.


Fear and insecurity always wait for any and all who dare to probe the depths of the Unknown. The true seeker of liberation must have an uncompromising desire to discover Eternal Truth, a desire that outweighs any tendency to hesitate and contract in the face of fear. It is only when the fear of the Unknown is openly embraced that it begins to transform into the positive energy and intensity necessary to awaken from conditioned existence.


It is not uncommon in the presence of a powerful teacher, and under ideal conditions, to have a glimpse of enlightenment. But all too often most seekers are unwilling to surrender to the overwhelming implications of that revelation. The profound intimacy and vulnerability inherent in true freedom marks the destruction of the ego's boundaries to such an extent that all beings and all things become the content of one's own Self. To most seekers this is simply too much because the limitlessness of the Self leaves no room for any separateness from the whole. It is this complete lack of separation from the whole which is the very definition of selflessness and love.


The aim of spiritual practice is to discover in your own present experience That which the movement of thought never touches. This does not mean to suppress the thinking mind, nor does it mean to attempt to understand by using thought. What I am pointing toward is the Unknown: the already, ever-present, silent-still-source that not only precedes thought but surrounds it. You must become more interested in the Unknown than in that which is known. Otherwise you will remain enslaved by the very narrow and distorted perspective of conceptual thinking. You must go so deeply into the Unknown that you are no longer referencing thought to tell you who and what you are. Only then will thought be capable of reflecting that which is true rather than falsely masquerading as truth.


What I am talking about is a condition where the mind never fixates; where it never closes; where it has no compulsive need to understand in terms of ideas, concepts, and beliefs. A condition where you are no longer referencing the mind, feelings, or emotions for security in any way. What I am talking about is the complete surrender of all separateness until liberation becomes a permanent condition, and you are forever lost in the freedom of the Absolute.

adyashanti





[edit on 11/17/2008 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


I came close to buying a book of his recently--a slim blue book about meditation--but decided not to. I may go back and pick it up. Do you know the book I'm talking about?

reply to post by Silenceisall


Is it this one? True Meditation

I find the recordings of his live satsangs the most useful.
I have a series of them on my public folder.
He also has a lot of free recordings available on his website.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


That's the one. I'll check out the recordings. Thanks.

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
I'm afraid I don't really like to delve too deep into philosophy anymore because it always leads me to the same lonely and reality smashing conclusion. How can you be comfortable with that, really?

I never have been. As much as infinity and god mind are great, don't get me wrong, I just find that dwelling there too long makes everything crap.
People wanna find the answers, the ultimate truth... but sometimes when you find the truth, you really wish you'd never known or wanted to know.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by dunwichwitch]

I feel that any "truth" found that does not uplift you, means there is another, higher level of truth to be discovered.



[edit on 17-11-2008 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by dunwichwitch


The point is not to dwell there. You cannot even, in the flesh. Know it and move on allowing what is true to guide your actions.

Thanks for that americandingbat. Please let me know what you think when you get around to reading him. As I wrote earlier, As One Is is a good intro.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by Silenceisall]

reply to post by Silenceisall


Krishnamurti not an avatar, never claimed to be, just another wiseacring bienpensant nobody...to each his own, but I myself can avoid making pronouncements about God until the day I can perform minor miracles (better than the ones I do currently) ...

Originally posted by nine-eyed-eel
reply to post by Silenceisall

 

Krishnamurti not an avatar, never claimed to be, just another wiseacring bienpensant nobody...to each his own, but I myself can avoid making pronouncements about God until the day I can perform minor miracles (better than the ones I do currently) ...

JK never made claims of miracles and never professed to know God.

He was not a Guru but a teacher of Ontology

Jesus said "I and the Father are one" and then later went on to profess how he came so that others can be one with him and God.

Tats the awesome part of being a Christian Mystic, you eventually get to experience this directly, instead of just reading about it and trying to analyze something that is beyond comprehension.

Imagine waking up everyday and not knowing where God ends and you begin, and vice versa.

reply to post by nine-eyed-eel


No one said he was an avatar....especially not him. He had a documentaed awakening experience, but he never claimed to be the voice of god.

reply to post by dunwichwitch


I'm afraid I don't really like to delve too deep into philosophy anymore because it always leads me to the same lonely and reality smashing conclusion. How can you be comfortable with that, really?

I never have been. As much as infinity and god mind are great, don't get me wrong, I just find that dwelling there too long makes everything crap.
People wanna find the answers, the ultimate truth... but sometimes when you find the truth, you really wish you'd never known or wanted to know.

[edit on 17-11-2008 by dunwichwitch]

wow im with you there.i always find though once its fully digested it becomes as comfortable as your old reality.at the end of the day there can be only one truth.either way i get you.

[edit on 23-11-2008 by capstan]

I'm currently reading, The First and Last Freedom.

I'm only 80 pages into it....but...

Society is the collective relationships between self and others. Because of this, any attempt to fix society with an external system--systems are belief based and serve to divide and cause conflict--will stagnate, crystalize and, ultimately, be destroyed. To fix society we must first understand ourselves in respect to our relationships.

I was half asleep when reading so I surely missed quite a bit of the message. I just can't get enough of this guy.

-Dev