Changing Of The Guard 'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location Alan Keyes laws

reply to post by MAINTAL


I don't think the question is of some photoshopped BC. There is no doubt he has a BC from Hawaii. The question is where he was born. I'm not disagreeing with you completely. I'm just saying that I don't think Obama has commited conspiracy to defraud.

I imagine that this is something he was probably a little worried about and is now trying to just avoid. Sorry, but the law is the law. We need to see a vaulted copy of certification of birth (the piece of paper that is signed off by the delivering doctor noting witnesses in the room including possible midwives, time of birth, etc.)

reply to post by jakyll


The officials in Hawaii have gone so far as to say that they will NOT release the documents unless Obama gives them permission to do so.

I was all for Obama, and still am, once this issue is resolved. Make no mistake about it, he is making an issue of this himself.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Thats the point, Biden (god I can't believe I said that) is qualified. He would be the president elect. Neing unable to serve means either he has been impeached or to ill to continue his duties or even been found to be ineligible in the first place. If Obama falls because of this suit. The election wouldstand. Theonly way anelection couldor would be overturned wouldbe if the preponderance of evidence showed wides pread fraud of the voters. That is not the case here. The man may be ineligible but the election stands.

Zindo

[edit on 11/16/2008 by ZindoDoone]

reply to post by ZindoDoone


You may be exactly correct. I don't know. The way I understand all of this is that the ticket would be voided. Afterall, Biden was APPOINTED to his position by someone who was ineligible to do so. I'll just leave it alone and we'll see if anything comes of it.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Also, that goes on to say that if neither the President elect nor the Vice President elect are eligible (which I think would be the case here) that the person to take over would be selected. Selected by whom? Congress? Proposterous. The new President would be selected by the people in a special election.

We would be stuck with Bush until Hilary and McCain could have an election.

I think they would have to toss Obama's entire run in addition to bringing him up on charges for fraud. He is a constitutional lawyer, a graduate of harvard, so it isn't like he can claim ignorance. They most likely would have to do a run off with Hillary since she was the runner up. Then she and McCain would go at it.

As for the riots in the streets, heh if people want to be that angry about having another crook in office after what we've been through the past eight years? Look, Obama has had his whole life sealed from public scrutiny and he has lied from the get go if this gets him disqualified.

If anything, they should be angry at HIM for putting the country through a sharade. Keyes is an extraordinarily intelligent man and has a lot of clout and I know he is ticked off the way obama cheated to get his senate seat in ILLINOIS and run un opposed stabbing the one who brought him in right in the back. Keyes will get this to the forefront and Obama's delaying this as long as he has is why this looks real bad on him.

It will kill his carreer and he can go back to Rush street hang out at the loop smokin crack again like he used to

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

I don't think the question is of some photo shopped BC. There is no doubt he has a BC from Hawaii. The question is where he was born. I'm not disagreeing with you completely. I'm just saying that I don't think Obama has committed conspiracy to defraud.

I imagine that this is something he was probably a little worried about and is now trying to just avoid. Sorry, but the law is the law. We need to see a vaulted copy of certification of birth (the piece of paper that is signed off by the delivering doctor noting witnesses in the room including possible midwives, time of birth, etc.)

Oh I was referring to the one they had shown on his website that was a fake and anyone honest with themselves knows it was. I did however make it clear in my post that getting the location was key


[edit on 16-11-2008 by MAINTAL]

reply to post by MAINTAL

Yes he DOES have a say in who sees it. Read the article, it says right there he does.

He can request that a copy be sent to him so others can see it,he can travel to Hawaii to and request to see the original for himself.But hospital officials are under no obligation to show the BC to anyone else,no matter what Obama says.



[edit on 16-11-2008 by jakyll]

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by sad_eyed_lady

 

Obama does not have a say in who gets to see the documents.Hospital officials are in control of that and they have verified that he is an American citizen.A court order is the only thing that can get them to release it for public view.

I find it hard to believe that an individual cannot get access to their own birth certificate.

This isn't the only issue. Page 14 - If he was born in Hawaii, there are four (4) other obstacles to Senator Obama’s
eligibility. In and about 1967, Senator Obama moved to Indonesia, took the last name of his stepfather,
Soetoro, and went by the name Barry Soetoro. In original legal action filed by Mr. Berg, he presented
Senator Obama’s school registration, showing him registered as Barry Soetoro, Citizenship-Indonesian,
Religion Islam, signed by L. Soetoro. From 1945, Indonesia has not allowed dual citizenship and,
therefore, Ms. Dunham-Obama-Soetoro, Senator Obama’s mother, had to relinquish her son’s U.S. citizenship in order to obtain Indonesian citizenship for him, which would make him ineligible to become
a United States President. Additionally, the United States could not allow dual citizenship with Indonesia
at that time, as Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship, and it was prohibited by the Hague Convention
of 1930, as interfering with the internal affairs of another sovereign Country.
81. In addition, upon return to the United States in and around 1971-1972, Senator Obama
would have been required to go to the then current immigration procedures to regain his U.S. citizenship.
There is no record of him ever doing that. Even if he had done so, he would be considered a naturalized
citizen and not a “natural born” citizen.
82. Additionally, assuming Senator Obama was born in what is now Kenya, at the time of
Senator Obama’s birth in 1961, (now) Kenya was the British Protectorate of Zanzibar and Senator Obama
was automatically accorded a form of British citizenship under Section 32(1) of the British Nationality
Act of 1948, effective date January 28, 1949, based on his father’s citizenship.
83. Finally, in 1981, Senator Obama traveled to Pakistan, when there was a ban for U.S.
citizens to travel to Pakistan. The only logical possibility for him to do so was by using one of his other
passports: Indonesian, Kenyan, or British.

Even if Obama was a natural born citizen, he lost that right and status becoming a citizen of Indonesia and attending islamic school there as a citizen of Indonesia. He could only become a citizen again if he has a certified oath of allegiance done on or around his 18th birthday.

Even if he did produce this document, he is a naturalized citizen and ineligible for office as POTUS. He could run as Arnold did for state and take a state office.

He took the Indonesian passport and used it traveling as an Indonesian citizen.

Period. There is no disputing this, and document validity has no bearing.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

Yes he DOES have a say in who sees it. Read the article, it says right there he does.

He can request that a copy be sent to him so others can see it,he can travel to Hawaii to and request to see the original for himself.But hospital officials are under no obligation to show the BC to anyone else,no matter what Obama says.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by jakyll]

Medical records can and are required by law to be released to any party given permission by the owner of said records. The only difference is a different party pays per page vs you yourself would owe nothing. Quit lying to everyone here Jak. You spread your lies on every thread Ive seen you on. This is the entire reason I asked for a higher than ten person ignore list. Its almost as if ATS wants people spreading lies and disinfo all over the boards.




[edit on 16-11-2008 by Memysabu]

Originally posted by AmericanDaughter
I realy don't get it. It doesn't seem fair and makes me angry that barry soetoro can get by with not stepping up and doing the right thing, Especially If he is a citizen. This makes him look giulty as sin, which MANY believe he is. If he's a citizen he is being Absolutely Disrespectful to those he "represents" and doesn't give a **** about our feelings; some Possible future prez (fits right in)
If not a citizen it is Necessary we find out ASAP. If he isn't a citizen, What about all that money he decieved people into giving?
Either way he's being a jerk! I just pray he's an American jerk but I truely don't think so.

Yeah that is what is so ironic about Barry is that he was always complaning about the secrecy surrounding the Bush administration and promised if he got elected, their would be much more transparency around the oval office. Since then, we have not been able to see a damn thing about this guy, not even his legislative pages, his thesis, details to his membership in the Democrats for Socialism in Illinois, his client list, how he paid for his occidental college tuition and his harvard tuition, etc,. McCains life was an open book compared to this.

That is one reason I couldn't bring myself to vote for him, I just didn't like all the cloak and dagger subterfuge going on with him

This comes down to what makes someone a natural-born citizen.

According to the 14th Amendment,section 1401;

1)Anyone born inside the United States.
2)Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe.
3)Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
4)Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
5)Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
6)Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
7)a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
8)A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Are Obama's parents represented by any of these?

Originally posted by Memysabu

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by MAINTAL

 

Yes he DOES have a say in who sees it. Read the article, it says right there he does.

He can request that a copy be sent to him so others can see it,he can travel to Hawaii to and request to see the original for himself.But hospital officials are under no obligation to show the BC to anyone else,no matter what Obama says.

[edit on 16-11-2008 by jakyll]

Medical records can and are required by law to be released to any party given permission by the owner of said records. The only difference is a different party pays per page vs you yourself would owe nothing. Quit lying to everyone here Jak. You spread your lies on every thread Ive seen you on. This is the entire reason I asked for a higher than ten person ignore list. Its almost as if ATS wants people spreading lies and disinfo all over the boards.
[edit on 16-11-2008 by Memysabu]

Yeah I catch Jak in quite a few of em myself but he is doing what most Obamanoids do when they think it looks like they know what they are talking about. Ive read all the half dozen or so other lawsuits and I guess five states will be requesting same including his own soon. It's starting to snowball and what is so irritating is Obama could have avoided all this LONG ago, so the axiom is true, if you don't have enough time to do it right, then you will find the time to do it over again. hehe

Originally posted by jakyll
This comes down to what makes someone a natural-born citizen.

According to the 14th Amendment,section 1401;

1)Anyone born inside the United States.
2)Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe.
3)Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
4)Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
5)Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
6)Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
7)a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
8)A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.

Are Obama's parents represented by any of these?

sorry those don't apply to obama and if you would simply read the berg case or the one provided by the OP you wouldn't be putting so much shoe leather in your mouth. Try considering the possibility that perhaps you don't know as much as you think and that WE know more than you think. I know that is difficult for someone like you but do try, it might save time and save face.

Reading the interpretations of the constitutional information with regards to this issue have been truly interesting and enlightening.

Maybe, just maybe, with Alan Keys involved it will get some attention.

Someone, please just tell me that Nancy Pelosi would not be the 'fill in' for the POTUS? Please?

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


What a good post sad_eyed_lady. A clear description of the situation and hope you don't mind if I use it in an email.
Btw, I've been meaning to tell you that I like your avitar

reply to post by Memysabu


Who's lying.

I wrongly assumed the laws around medical records are the same in the US as they are in the UK.

Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
The case also raises the circumstances of Obama's time during his youth in Indonesia, where he was listed as having Indonesian citizenship. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship, raising the possibility of Obama's mother having given up his U.S. citizenship.

The fact that this issue was raised TOTALLY discredits it for me.

I, a homemaker and rural resident, with 2 minutes of research, found out that a parent CANNOT "give up" his or her child's US citizenship and I have posted the information at least twice on this board. So, the fact that this is being included in this inquiry or whatever it is, indicates that this is a which hunt to me.

His grandmother said, "Barack is a son of this village."

Sorry. Not credible.

Originally posted by OuttaHere
I absolutely LOVE Alan Keyes, I have voted for him in the past. I am also thrilled that HE, as a black conservative, is the one who has brought this lawsuit.

i agree.

did the supreme court not subpoena Obama's birth records?

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


That is correct. His mother cannot give up his citizenship. So, if he is found to be a natural born US citizen there is no longer an issue and we can move on.

For the time being, it seems that people want some validation. They should get it. I for one am tired of this drama.