I think missionaries should be outlawed

Think about it, missionaries have been one of the biggest causes of loss of culture throughout history. Native Americans, Easter Island, etc etc.

They show up and spread disease and then try and demolish the native's belief structures and implant their own "acceptable" religion.

Also, they go and try to shove American culture into the lands. Unfortunately it isn't just missionaries who do this. Just because Americans think something is a necessity and people need to live a certain way doesn't mean other parts of the world do.

The thing is they would have to be made illegal in every country and corner of the planet.....

But I AGREE with you in theorey.........I find it reprehensible that 'missionaries' are allowed to go anywhere and crush the belief systems of cultures. I think if certain individual people WANT to know about the revisionist historical belief systems of any religion they can REQUEST that information.......if it is not requested in writing then no missionaries should be allowed to knock at the door, OR invade the village........

Case in point: the movie out on DVD called....THE END OF THE SPEAR......where so called Christian missionaries go deep into the Amazon to try and 'save' the people and completely mess them all up.........but, from the movies POV the 'messing up' is a very good thing.



[edit on 14-11-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


Yea, when I said they should be outlawed it was more a figure of speech. I know it could never happen, Freedom of Speech and everything. I just think that they do more harm than good. They have good intentions but it has really just lost a lot of possibly useful information on humans and culture.

reply to post by flyingwoody


I live in Utah...and from the Mormon ideology your not being a good church member unless your SHARING your testimony with everyone you come in contact with. Almost ALL young Mormon men spend 2 years out in the mission field...............
I often hear this referred to as ~MORMON SAFARI~

I doubt it would ever be outlawed as big churches have BIG MONEY and without the conversion of new members they would only be growing in number by the members bearing children..........



[edit on 14-11-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

I have an aunt who is currently on a long-term missionary trip to China.

While I like her personally I have some very serious issues with what she is doing.

First of all she has taken her young daughter (probably 12 by now) with her, and there is some risk of legal or physical retribution taken against them.

I do NOT think any responsible parent should put their child into a situation where they know they could be harmed... but she prayed about it, and said God promised to protect them.

Beyond that, I think she has absolutely no right to go and try to destroy a culture that has far predated Christianity (she is in the rural areas, not the modernized places). She packages it as a "Solution" for China's problems, forgetting entirely the problems it has caused in the West.

It's hard for me to deal with because she is blood relation, and she actually beleives that she is doing a wonderful thing for the Chinese people.

That's the whole trouble with missionaries. They are already outlawed in some countries, and even if they were outlawed across the globe they would still continue underground.... like is said they beleive they have solutions and they are doing God's will

That is actually another problem I have with the idea of missionaries. I just forgot to put it in my original post.

The whole idea that a lot of times they actually BREAK THE LAW to go into these countries and risk the lives of their entire families. I can't tell you how many times I've heard something along the lines of "This is Joe and Jane Smith and they are missionaries in a country in the Middle East. We cannot disclose where they are at because of legal issues in the area at this point in time" yadda yadda yadda.

Also, I don't think the parents should take their kids not only because of safety reasons but what if the kid doesn't want to spend their childhood in the middle of some foreign country risking disease and death to spread a religion? What if the child doesn't believe? It especially sickens me when the parents decide to go into the field when their kids are young teens. It basically uproots their whole lives.

And those are usually the same people who say that God put the laws in this country in place and we have to obey them, all we can do is pray for the leaders.

Apparently they pick and choose who God put there to their convenience.

It REALLY blows my mind how some of these people take their children with them. I just do not understand. It's much like dressing in bright red and then walking through a gang's neighborhood that wears blue. It's preposterous to think of a parent doing that, but most of the time the irrisponsibility is overlooked, even applauded, when it is 'The Lord's Work.'

I would agree. It is a crime against humanity and something should be done. On the same hit list up even higher is child indoctrination.

GW:
I wouldn't want to take away a parent's right to teach a child as he sees fit but many of them with a religious slant miss the point completely.

Most of them do not go to the extreme of dragging their children off to hostile countries though, let's keep that in mind.

reply to post by asmeone2


Yes well in my book a it's a parent's responsibility to teach their children morals, principles and the virtues and importance of freethought.

If they can't or won't do so, they are both inequiped and a failure as a parent.

reply to post by Good Wolf



But WITHOUT Child indoctrination then 3/4ths of the 'Members' just would not exist.....they would never agree to not doing it as a regular practice.

People become zealots because of the hard core teachings they had pounded into their youthful minds....as adults they fall back on "I have ALWAYS been taught such & such so I KNOW its a fact....."
Those people never quite take into account that many years in the past everyone KNEW the earth was flat because thats what they were being taught as children....


[edit on 14-11-2008 by theRiverGoddess]

reply to post by theRiverGoddess


It's a sad reality. Indoctrination is a disease of humanity.

I posted this in another thread.

Indeed. Asking oneself "Why do I believe what I believe?" can be a disturbing experience, and a life changing one at that.

When I asked myself that, the answer was "because I always have, I was indoctrinated as a child."

As they say, the truth will set you free.

And as noobfun says about denial of truth, "De nial is a dangerous thing to be in, there is crocs in there. ^_^"

Originally posted by flyingwoody
Think about it, missionaries have been one of the biggest causes of loss of culture throughout history. Native Americans, Easter Island, etc etc.

They show up and spread disease and then try and demolish the native's belief structures and implant their own "acceptable" religion.

Also, they go and try to shove American culture into the lands. Unfortunately it isn't just missionaries who do this. Just because Americans think something is a necessity and people need to live a certain way doesn't mean other parts of the world do.

To be fair, it is not entirely on the shoulders of Americans. Most of the missionaries I see in the field are from Catholic organizations operating under the auspices of the Vatican. These and others are very often European or South American, and the goal isn't to spread "American ideals", but rather the current cultural ideals fostered by the Abrahamic faiths. We had a discussion about this very subject earlier in the week, and this was my post at that time. The beginning is a response to someone's question of "But don't they have the choice of accepting the missionaries' beliefs?":

"I suppose this would depend upon your understanding of true choice. I work in developing regions as an aid worker under the auspices of secular governmental or nonprofit organizations (depending upon the directive). Our subjects are those who are living in poverty, often in areas affected by war and always affected by disease. The church presence is usually found in these areas, and the common result of their interference is increased cultural instability due to the introduction of new religious competition. The purpose of their invasion into these areas is not merely humanitarian aid but rather, as you would guess, religious conversion. These populations are very often married to sundry ethnic customs and have rarely been introduced to the Christian god. When strange foreigners invade these lands and begin to teach that the ethnic customs (these beliefs that the population has followed for so long) will doom the believers to torture for all of eternity, lest they follow the one true god, a god whom the missionaries can lead them to, what do you think these "lost souls" will do? These are fragile populations--they are quite malleable and susceptible to conversion. The Christian missionaries often bring the promise of new schools, medicine, and food, and all for the low price of your soul. You, living in a hovel with who knows how many children of your own, would be foolish not to accept. It would be a mistake to call this a "choice". It is not a simple decision between believing and not believing. There is great coercion involved here.

People engaging in Christian missions do not understand the harm they are bringing upon these regions--for them, only the good is apparent, only the benefits that they believe will be incurred upon a society graced by Christianity. I believe those in the upper arms of Christianity understand how insidious the mission work can be, but the followers are very rarely enlightened to this fact. When those of us in the field of secular aid, particular those involved in peace negotiations, enter the regions where Christianity has taken hold, we are often presented with the task of cleaning up after the propaganda spill that these missionaries leave in their wake. The progress takes several steps back; there are severe consequences upon the physical health and the societal stability. In regions where people are already warring over gods, what rationale could compel you to introduce yet another god into the mix? It is either foolishness or a machiavellian cruelty, and it leads to yet more death in areas that already have more than their fair share. Those few who act to propagate the faith while fully understanding the harm they may cause cannot be considered anything less than of malevolent intent--they are despicable creatures indeed.

As for the apparent surprise among some of you at the idea of aggressive conversion, it is well within the doctrine of Christianity. As Christ said, "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." A good Christian would not ignore this directive."

For centuries, missionaries have been an essential tool in the conquering of lands by European forces. Without them, it is questionable what level of success would have been had in many regions. There are mountains of customs, beliefs, folk tales and the like that have been all but erased by the ideas introduced by mission work--this is the goal, however.



[edit on 14/11/08 by paperplanes]

although i am decidedly against missionary work, i think it is pretty normal to want to share one's own truth with others. and when approached carefully and respectfully, i think its a good thing.

i am one of those (apostate) mormons whom decided to not go on the required two-year mission. i knew that the choice i had made not to go was going totally against the grain. but it sustained one of my own most basic truths:

truth is like beauty in that everyone can recognize it and no one needs it explained to them.

truth does not require a spokesperson.

I'm curious as to how many of you posters have been on a medical mission sponsored by a church.

I have been associated with a dental team and a medical team and have visited many countries.

We are asked to help by the churches in the areas where there is very little medical or dental care.

We pull teeth that are causing great pain, we give worm medicine to children whose stomachs are worm ridden.

We treat many diseases and also give away clothes that have been donated by businesses in the USA.

We teach sanitation and wound care.

We are not taking disease into these areas but many of us have to be treated when we get back to the states. I contracted Dengue Fever swimming in Haiti. That was no fun. I was very ill.

We didn't go to preach, we went to teach. Some of the older ladies would have bible school but it was in an established christian church in the areas where we worked.

My last mission was in southern Mexico. We went to help rebuild a school and also treat children for worms.

It may be a surprise to many but the mission trip prior to the Mexico trip was to a church in Maine, USA. We went to convert a large building at a church into several classrooms.

I would love to hear of your experiences with missionaries that made you so against us.

Missionaries have changed. We go where we are invited to go. We go to help rebuild and heal.

i personally agree that pushing pushing beliefs on anyone is wrong. also that i personally like carl gustav jungs ideas of psychology and that noone should force their beliefs orideas or expextations on their children in any way. in order for one to become the best person they can be they should strive for complete individuality. ppl forcing their children into their beliefs or lifestyle is contradicting this. its ok to give ur kid advice and try to guide them on the rite path. u need to let them do what they believe without too much enforcement. eventually they'll ffigure it out on there own. awareness is important. dont lie or hide things from kids, educate them about the world. lifes most important lessons cannot be taught by school teachers only by you. give them freedom and wisdom and they grow as ppl faster. parenting style is probably the root of all our problems in the world, although most ppl wont admit it.. none should force their beliefs on others

If the message exudes spiritual Truth, then people will naturally gravitate towards it.

Think of how the great sages are described; they attract followers with merely their presence. People see their Truth and they desire to know it.

The fact that the growth of many modern religions requires a persistent door to door salesmen approach of the message, should speak for itself.

Good point LL.

Another member of ATS and I were having a discussion that there are perhaps 1 or 2 million "enlightened" people on Earth, and most of these are in uncivilized countries. The same places where most missionaries head off too. It's not enough that organized judaic religion commants almost 2/3 of the world's population, they have to actively hunt down those pockets of people that still hang on to ancient tribal beleifs.

No respect, I tell you.

On a more humorous, albeit darker note:

Let's keep missionary work legal.

But remind them of our right to bear arms and our right to defend our homes from intruders

j/k

but seriously call first.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Nice thought, but it hasn't really worked thorugh history...