Intelligent Design and Plasticine

*Note, the videos posted in this thread are by a youtube user VenomfangX. He has the most popular youtube Christian channel, as well as being a Young Earth Creationist. He is also a known censor and a liar. And on with the show.*


1. I would base it on the fact that little ball had a creator because its an approximate replica of how Earth is viewed from outer space.

2. No, we haven't seen Earth form. However, we observe other solar systems form, giving us insight into our own. In addition, evidence collected from ancient rock strata and the moon give corrborating evidence to the age of the Earth and how it eventually formed.

3. "The Earth formed 4.6 billion years ago from abunch of asteroid's colliding together" A lie and straw man argument.
A
4. No it isn't "religious" to believe the Earth is billions of years old. It's what every Scientific model says.

5. Most of the rest of the video is him giving the blind watchmaker argument in varying ways. Well Venom, heres a little observation, WE CAN SEE YOU SO THERES NO ARGUMENT TO THE VALIDITY TO THE EXISTENCE OF A CREATOR!

Part 2


1. Once again, it always baffles me religious people get a deer in a headlights look whenever you ask "Who created God?" If you want to try to get into the field of Science, you can't have an answer be "He poofed from nothing."

2. Everything did not come from nothing. The Big Bang(Which has nothing to do with Evolution) was a rapid growth of space time from a singularity. What caused the initial expansion of space time? We're not sure. But to say it came from nothing is BS.

3. False Dichotomy between God and the current state of the Universe as the only two possible explanations of the Universe.

4. And here we go with Venom misunderstanding Einstein's famous E=MC^2 or Energy=Mass*Speed of Light^2. The amount of energy released during the Big Bang may well have been infinite, we just don't know. So yes, there is a change there is an infinite amount of matter in the Universe.

5. You can very well believe an infinite being always existed Shawn. Give us some proof besides a 2000 year old book and we'll look into it.

6. A common quote mine from Darwin about the formation of the eye. Then throws out a strawman argument about removing parts of your eye. No Venom, what he means is, a creature that gains a light receptive patch of cells is useful to know if its night or day, and so on and so forth until the final formation of the current human eye.

7. For his argument that God could have potentially designed the Earth to look old and mess with us, I consult my avatar, Bill Hicks, btw there are some NSFW parts


8. Yes Venom, humans have a tendecy to explain what we can't understand to supernatural beings. However, to claim the gods of Greece and Mesoamerica sever the same purpose as the Judeo-christian god is well,..............

Ah yes venomfangx, the loudest anti-intellectual I've ever heard.

You see that disaster over the claims that thunderfoot made him apologise to the internet for?

Hilarious. VFX is an indoctrinated, indoctrinating cretin and I'm absolutely happy to make that ad hominem.

[edit on 11/13/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
Ah yes venomfangx, the loudest anti-intellectual I've ever heard.

You see that disaster over the claims that thunderfoot made him apologise to the internet for?

Hilarious. VFX is an indoctrinated, indoctrinating cretin and I'm absolutely happy to make that ad hominem.

[edit on 11/13/2008 by Good Wolf]

Yeah, theres two more parts to the series, but I feel if I watch the other parts, I'm going grab an ice pick and shove it into my brain. Part 3 and 4 will come tomorrow I guess.

reply to post by FSBlueApocalypse


I can't even watch that fool - he makes me want to gouge my eyes out and cram science textbooks into the cavities to desperately try to keep my remaining knowledge in my head. I can feel IQ points evaporating every second I listen to his drivel.

What a fool. Grade-A, first class moron.

i actually managed to watch a whole 4 minutes

thats about 2 minutes more then last time, and yes i now feel the urge to go blow up some churches full of christians as bringing them death is better then me letting them stumble across this crap by accident

but ill comment as best as my brain can manage as braincells started committing suicide without the stimulation of proudf00t shouting you fool you utter absolute moron at him

ok im walking around and find a ball of plasticine and i cant see a creator do i
a)say it made its self
b)say someone made it

b it not a naturally occuring object its plastacine

so shawny asks what did i base that on

a)scientific method
b)intuition

a its not a structure found in nature and its made of plastecine i compared it to other know stuff .. wait i didnt test repeat and observe so its not scientific? shall i repeatedly compare it to known stuff .. same conclusion

no i didnt see the creation of a ball of plasticine

no we didnt see the earth get formed im not that old im 31 for christ sake

could i tell it was man made .. yes plastacine comes in tubs not in nature

wow you made that? really ? wow your good ok i beleive you .... hey how about go make a bunch more and stop making videos? no im sad now

wow and theres a interdimensional bieng .. thats cool is it like the super dimension fortress macros becasue that turns into a huge robot and is relly cool ... its an invisble sky dady that wants to party with my dead ghost for all eternity? isnt that like necrophillia?

if he wears a stupid hat for a bad hair day we should make him wear a hanibal lecture style face mask so he cant talk when he is having a bad brain lifetime like now

Instead of using this thread for VFX bashing, I thought it would be better to instead bring to light lesser known, but equally deserving youtube young earth creationists. First up, Nephilimfree.


1. Evolutionist scientists claim there are only 2 dozen transitional forms? What for a lineage of a single species? There are literally thousands of different transitional forms for the various species of life.
en.wikipedia.org...

2. Considering we find thousands of transitional forms, almost yearly, that statement is either an outright lie, straw man, or out of context quote.

3. Finding fossils isn’t that hard. I have several fossils on my shelf from just walking around on the beach during a Nor’Easter and erosion taking place uncovering them. However, the Burgess Shale hardly fits that description.
en.wikipedia.org...

4. Animals adapt in modest ways? You do mean evolution don’t you Nephy? The beginning to end of Whale evolution is quite interesting btw if you ever read up on the subject.

5. Sweet jesus Nephy your lack of science makes me want to cringe. WTF do you mean exactly the like except a new morphological feature? Take whale evolution, do you mean say a gradual reduction of the back limbs over time? What do yeah know, every fossil we have of ancient whales and proto-whales shows this.

6. Once again, a creationist getting the idea totally wrong on evolution. It doesn’t mean more complex, as with whales, THEY LOST 2 OF THEIR LIMBS.

7. The rest of the video is wash and repeat.

reply to post by noobfun


Well done on your 4 mins!

I had to stop at 3:29 ...

By the way FSBlue ... your link to the vid from Nephilimfree isn't working ... but I am gonna peruse youtube and see how long I watch those vids before my eyeballs start to bleed.

I'll be right back

I'm on dialup () and I don't think I'll bother waiting so long to watch such st.

[edit on 21/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

reply to post by Good Wolf

I'm on dialup (

) and I don't think I'll bother waiting so long to watch such s

t.

You don't have cable? That sucks. Well, usually I'd complain when a video is not closed captioned, but this time I'm not complaining

So, don't worry about it buddy

I know that whatever that guy in the video said, I've heard it all before. It's full of anti-intellectualism

Why is it so important to some Christians that Creationism has to be proven? Corrupting children with evil evolution doctrine? Nah. They can make their own choices.

reply to post by Deaf Alien


It's that exact question that made me make the "Why Creationism?" thread. The premise was that why would you trust a book written over 1500 years more than 1000 years ago, written by man over the self correcting, ever progressing thing we know to be science.

Actually using the bible and logic you can say that doing so (trusting the bible more) is effectively calling god a liar.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It was a good thread but it didn't get as much attention from creationists as I would have hoped.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
I'm on dialup (

) and I don't think I'll bother waiting so long to watch such s

t.

[edit on 21/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Oh man ... bummer ... our thoughts are with you ...

I, on the other hand did, unfortunately, watch some of his ramblings.

Same old same old ... don't waste your precious dial up time.

It is regurgitation

At least his voice isn't like fingernails down a chalk board like vfx ... when will that boy go through puberty??

Originally posted by noobfun
i now feel the urge to go blow up some churches full of christians as bringing them death is better then me letting them stumble across this crap by accident.

Gosh! It's a wonder that the intelligent design crowd even dares to show it's face around here. How could they manage a defense against facts like that?

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
I feel if I watch the other parts, I'm going grab an ice pick and shove it into my brain.

Yet another astute rebuttal. I'm beginning to see the great attraction to evolution now.

Originally posted by dave420
I can't even watch that fool - he makes me want to gouge my eyes out...
What a fool. Grade-A, first class moron.

Yep, nothing like character assassination when you lack the actual evidence or will power to address the subject.

Originally posted by Horza
At least his voice isn't like fingernails down a chalk board like vfx ... when will that boy go through puberty??

And yet more ad hominen personality attacks. I guess it's no shock that this isn't being discussed seriously around here. Other than the OP's comments, there's very little in here that's even worth discussing. Disappointing really. I watched a couple of the videos, thought this might be an interesting discussion, but this place is filled with more vile than the political forum was the first of this month.

Judging by how fast this topic dwindled down to nothing I'd say it was at least a good example of how "the entropy of the universe tends to a maximum". I guess I could make an attempt to elevate this back to the original post.

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
2. No, we haven't seen Earth form. However, we observe other solar systems form,

Hardly. How can we claim that the Earth formed over millions and millions of years and still make the claim that humans have observed other solar systems forming. You're making an unsustainable claim and you know that no one can back that up. Please direct us to the collection of information that someone gathered while a solar system formed. We just don't have that data. Even if we had our current technology for thousands of years we still wouldn't have the time to gather this information.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by FSBlueApocalypse
2. No, we haven't seen Earth form. However, we observe other solar systems form,

Hardly. How can we claim that the Earth formed over millions and millions of years and still make the claim that humans have observed other solar systems forming. You're making an unsustainable claim and you know that no one can back that up. Please direct us to the collection of information that someone gathered while a solar system formed. We just don't have that data. Even if we had our current technology for thousands of years we still wouldn't have the time to gather this information.

When you look outside of the solar system, we look back in time because of how long it takes for light to travel. The further out we look out the further back in time we see. We can see stars coming together from dust and gas. We can see space rock clumping together. We have background radiation from the beginning of time for pete's sake.

We even have historic accounts of supernovae that light up the sky, bright enough to read by.

And the irony of that post is you, except for one part, didn't really address anything. Now, as for Solar system formation, no we haven't seen one solar system completely form from beginning to end. What we have seen are various systems at various stages that seem to follow a pattern.

Can someone please explain were NEW species come from? Hmmmmmmmm?

Tests Show Giant Deer Is a New Species

query.nytimes.com...

Saolas have only been known to zoologists since 1992, initially from unusual horns obtained in Vietnam. Analysis of morphology and DNA has revealed that this is a new bovine genus, related to cattle, nyala, kudu, and elands. Saolas are antelopes, in the sense that an antelope is any morphologically primitive bovine. It is not known how many individuals exist, as only 11 have been recorded alive.

en.wikipedia.org...



Well, it appears that the "Creators" are at it again... Oh, wait a minute, maybe these TWO NEW species are in fact, transitional, even thought the DNA tests confirm they are a new distinct species.

One discovered in 1992, the 0ther in 1994. You would think the people in the area would know whats out there and what isn't. Silly Vietnamese, they don't even know whats lurking about in the dark.

So, can someone explain this, are they evolutionary, or created. Please, Im all ears.......

[edit on 21-11-2008 by All Seeing Eye]

[edit on 21-11-2008 by All Seeing Eye]

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


It's called speciation. It happens when two populations and their respective gene pools become distinct enough that they can no longer produce fertile offspring.

[edit on 21/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

It's called speciation. It happens when two populations and their respective gene pools become distinct enough that they can no longer produce fertile offspring.

[edit on 21/11/2008 by Good Wolf]

It is not known how many individuals exist, as only 11 have been recorded alive.

Do you believe this "Speculation" could occur within a two year span, with to separate species, with at least 11 others of its species that is alive? Please continue..

You know you didn't have to post the "popular young intelligent design activist" from youtube - It's obvious there is a lack of formal intelligent discussion in the videos - for which I'm sure you knew of before posting to rally what already looks like a "chest pounding" poke-fun ho-down against the ID movement. (which I'm sure boost your ego). I'm sure there are more educated links on the web about the topic.

Before I get picked on.

I'll leave what I think would be necessary on this thread. As unintelligent it may sound to say "God" created everything, and that there is no such thing as randomness or chance- (because I assume you believe there is such a thing) - In attempt to actually provide the most scientific answer to existence (which at our current human understanding is going to be ridiculous) Why can't someone agree that there is currently no answer (finished product from science), and that a God(s) exist until there is?
No one say because believing in God limits exploration in science, because I don't see any laws of such a thing.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by juveous]

reply to post by All Seeing Eye


Hey I said "speciation" not speculation. Speciation can occur within a year depending on the generation length of the species.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by All Seeing Eye

 

Hey I said "speciation" not speculation. Speciation can occur within a year depending on the generation length of the species.

As I said, please continue. Where did these two new species come from.

I should inform you that the nearest relative of one of the "deer" is from India, and that is a far piece from Vietnam. I doubt a casual stroll could account for the "Mating".