The Bible:Tampered With Or Not?

In over 2000yrs the Bible has sold an estimated 6 billion copies,full and half versions have been translated into over 3000 languages,so far.

In the English language alone there are over 300 versions.(includes olde English and middle English versions)

It is a well known fact that a)Hebrew is a very difficult language to translate. b)there are just some words and phrases that will not translate into another,and c)the smallest change or misinterpretation can change the whole meaning of a verse.

An example for this last point;
Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee,Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Compared with,

And Jesus said unto him,Verily i say unto thee today,thou shalt be with me in paradise.

From the turn of the last century to the present there have been over a 100 different translations.

American Standard.8,with 2 more on the way.
Dynamic translations.6.
King James.15.
New International Version.4.
Messianic translations.3.
New English translations.2.
Public Domain translations.6.
Roman Catholic.12.
Septuagint translations.4.
Simplified English translations.9.
Jehovah's Witnesses.3.
Sacred name translations.10.
Other translations.28.

All these versions differ from not only from between each other,but also within each other.For example,the standard King James version is different to the New Kings James.

An important point to remember is that many of these new versions are copyrighted! The Bible has been in the public domain for centuries,to be able to copyright such a work these new versions have to show a significant change of script when compared to the original.(such books are known as derivative works) The implications of this are obvious.



With the small slices of information i have given its hard to believe that anyone can think that the Bible hasn't been changed by man,for man.And it happened very early in the history of Christianity.Origen,(185–254 AD) an early Church Father complained about the many different translations already in existence.


Related links.
Spurious changes to the Bible.
www.multiline.com.au...

History of the Bible:The Making of the New Testament Canon.
www.teach12.com...

Only 6 billion? I would think it would be a lot more than that.

Anyway, Hebrew vowels are also interchangable.

Yes the bible has been tampered with and this is widely known. The bible as we know it was based of the Dead Sea Scrolls. It can be seen that the original Bible in it's Hebrew text was the Dead Sea Scrolls. The Dead Sea Scrolls are currently the oldest text relating Christianity to be rooted though Judaism. I am still in the middle of reading most of the scrolls online. So I don't have any more info. I'll send you an u2u when I do.

-Ign0RanT

Originally posted by jakyll
In over 2000yrs the Bible has sold an estimated 6 billion copies,full and half versions have been translated into over 3000 languages,so far.

In the English language alone there are over 300 versions.(includes olde English and middle English versions)

It is a well known fact that a)Hebrew is a very difficult language to translate. b)there are just some words and phrases that will not translate into another,and c)the smallest change or misinterpretation can change the whole meaning of a verse.

An example for this last point;
Luke 23:43

And Jesus said unto him,Verily I say unto thee,Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Compared with,

And Jesus said unto him,Verily i say unto thee today,thou shalt be with me in paradise.

From the turn of the last century to the present there have been over a 100 different translations.

American Standard.8,with 2 more on the way.
Dynamic translations.6.
King James.15.
New International Version.4.
Messianic translations.3.
New English translations.2.
Public Domain translations.6.
Roman Catholic.12.
Septuagint translations.4.
Simplified English translations.9.
Jehovah's Witnesses.3.
Sacred name translations.10.
Other translations.28.

All these versions differ from not only from between each other,but also within each other.For example,the standard King James version is different to the New Kings James.

An important point to remember is that many of these new versions are copyrighted! The Bible has been in the public domain for centuries,to be able to copyright such a work these new versions have to show a significant change of script when compared to the original.(such books are known as derivative works) The implications of this are obvious.



With the small slices of information i have given its hard to believe that anyone can think that the Bible hasn't been changed by man,for man.And it happened very early in the history of Christianity.Origen,(185–254 AD) an early Church Father complained about the many different translations already in existence.


Related links.
Spurious changes to the Bible.
www.multiline.com.au...

History of the Bible:The Making of the New Testament Canon.
www.teach12.com...

In with respect to Jacky, I would like to quote the whole thread instead of just replying to it.

The Bible:Tampered With Or Not?

What I can reply with, and what I can quote from the bible(s). At the last page of EVERY bible it does have something about 'Do not change the words here within the book.' If christians everywhere really did follow the bible, then ...wait for it...no more christians left in the world today. Why? God would simply 'remove them for changing the words in the book'.

gordonwest

At the last page of EVERY bible it does have something about 'Do not change the words here within the book.' If christians everywhere really did follow the bible, then ...wait for it...no more christians left in the world today. Why? God would simply 'remove them for changing the words in the book'.

Two points.

1) This verse refers only to the Book of Revelation as when it was wrote there was no such thing as the 'bible.'

2) It says something similar in Deuteronomy.Which,if true,would mean that the rest of the OT and all of the NT are as worthless as they are truthless.



[edit on 10-11-2008 by jakyll]

All translations...ALL I have seen have a central message, no matter the transliteration differences...

That message is...

OT/Torah/Penta..: We screwed up and need a savior...

Prophets: The savior is coming and there are about 60 predictions on how/where/etc...

New Test: JC is here, and fulfilled those 60 or so predictions and He is about love/acceptance...

Epistles: The savior was here and expects you to live this way...

Revelation: The savior is coming back as JUDGE, get ready!

OT

PS: I think it logical and good that an omniscient deity could preserve His message over time, if He wants to convey a message...

OldThinker

Good points.

But,Jesus is not the savior of the Jews.
And he fulfilled less than you seem to realize.
(btw,that doesn't mean he was a false prophet)

Visit here for an example.
www.abovetopsecret.com...




Ign0rant

Cheers.
I have read a few myself and highly reccomend them to people whenever i get the chance.




DarthChrisious

Only 6 billion? I would think it would be a lot more than that.

It could be.
That was the estimate most popular on the sites i looked.A few said lower,only one place it higher at 7.1 billion.

Originally posted by OldThinker
Revelation: The savior is coming back as JUDGE, get ready!

And they have been saying that since the time the book was written. What you have said is incredibly debatable, considering the number of times the phrases "soon" "immanent" "soon to pass/be" etc are used in the book. I would think that it was talking about time just after it was written, but hey who am I to say, thats just the impression the language used in the book carries.

And history of the time fits quite well with the predictions meaning that it happened a long time ago so relax.

PS: I think it logical and good that an omniscient deity could preserve His message over time, if He wants to convey a message...

Well you'd think so

[edit on 11/10/2008 by Good Wolf]

I read the KJV 1611 and have one downloaded on my computer which you can get free here
www.jesus-is-lord.com...
And of course the Geneva bible
PDF Adobe format .
www.genevabible.org...

I actually hate the newer bibles because they give their own interpretations and take out words and add words which certainly changes the whole meanings of what was written ............
I have a KJV at home ..

Here is some history
Read the whole thing ..just wanted to point this out ...
[Protestants today are largely unaware of their own history, and unaware of the Geneva Bible (which is textually 95% the same as the King James Version, but 50 years older than the King James Version, and not influenced by the Roman Catholic Rheims New Testament that the King James translators admittedly took into consideration). Nevertheless, the King James Bible turned out to be an excellent and accurate translation, and it became the most printed book in the history of the world, and the only book with one billion copies in print. In fact, for over 250 years...until the appearance of the English Revised Version of 1881-1885...the King James Version reigned without much of a rival. One little-known fact, is that for the past 200 years, all King James Bibles published in America are actually the 1769 Baskerville spelling and wording revision of the 1611. The original “1611” preface is deceivingly included by the publishers, and no mention of the fact that it is really the 1769 version is to be found, because that might hurt sales. The only way to obtain a true, unaltered, 1611 version is to either purchase an original pre-1769 printing of the King James Bible, or a less costly facsimile reproduction of the original 1611 King James Bible.]
www.greatsite.com...

reply to post by jakyll


OK, thx...my take on prophecy is...it is released over time...thru time people see more and can look back with hindsight and see how it fits...look over the OT predictions to Israel in general...only after TIME could they see the BIG PICTURE...and understand what was siad before...and what became of it...I think some call it progressive revelation...SO...all those yet-to-be-fulfilled stuff will happen in time...speculation on my part, for sure.

Also JC was jewish, went to synagouge, etc...

GW, Why'd you change my picture on your avatar? Loved the sith-dude, kinda looked like OT Stick with one bro...

reply to post by OldThinker

GW, Why'd you change my picture on your avatar? Loved the sith-dude, kinda looked like OT

Stick with one bro...

Ya...WTF GW? I even sent LOVE your way for that avatar - and now, you change on me...?!

How dare you...?! Do you know that you are on MY friend list..? For the moment anyways...





To the OP:

I KNOW it is tampered with...and I like that - it confuses the enemy.

Tampered with? No. That implies [petty] malicious intent (whether or not it was malicious on a larger, more grandiose scale is a different matter entirely). The better word for what happened would be a restructuring of the Bible, specifically at the Council of Nicaea. At least thats what I have heard.

The Council of Nicaea on Google:
www.google.com...

[edit on 11/10/2008 by prototism]

The Bible:Tampered With Or Not?

Since the original books of the Bible no longer exist, it is compulsory to assume that yes, the Bible has been tampered with.

reply to post by chapter29 (... and OT)


I'm sorry about the change but I like this one better - it's more has more of a conspiracy/back-alley/double-agent/underground feel. In fact it kinda looks like anonymous (and me to boot!)



Back to the topic at hand.

I'm not sure it was tampered with, but rather it was altered over the years by human incompetence.

We all know that the Bible has been "edited" in everyway, the Question should_be: Why are there still Christian Religion, BECAUSE of the Christians has gotten their Information from the edited bible.

Originally posted by gordonwest
We all know that the Bible has been "edited" in everyway, the Question should_be: Why are there still Christian Religion, BECAUSE of the Christians has gotten their Information from the edited bible.

gordonwest...

OT here...

Sorry for the criticism forthcoming...

...'We ALL know'...is an assumption/arrogant/ego-centric, not well thought-through...

...'edited in EVERYWAY' is a lazy statement...

...'why are there still Christians'...who gives a flying you know what that there are a few pronouns/adjetives/conjunctions that are inconsistent?...did you see my earlier point about one CENTRAL message?

reply to post by OldThinker

Sorry for the criticism forthcoming...

Wow...Rip, Tear and New Member Beware..!

And No, you are not sorry....

gordonwest:

You actually made a good point - it was lost in the grammar...but no worries as I mis-spell my own name on occasion.




If I understand your latest post correctly, you are asking why the christian religion lives on despite universal knowledge that it is a fallacy...?

I may be wrong, but only because I'm baked, but it may be that those that still believe are "holding" onto their belief because it validates their stance...

reply to post by OldThinker


A single message? I beg to differ. I know plenty of christians who would say it's about "peace and love" and others say it's about Christ and then again others who don't believe Christ was divine.

So what's the central message?

Yeah. The Christians have edited the bible so many times now, why the hell are they still beliving in the bible AND why are the Christians still thinks that they are true belivers in God. The Christian religion in today's world is a cult, because it has nothing to do with God in anyway. How can I be more clear with what I have said?

Originally posted by chapter29
reply to post by OldThinker

 

Sorry for the criticism forthcoming...

Wow...Rip, Tear and New Member Beware..!
And No, you are not sorry....
gordonwest:
You actually made a good point - it was lost in the grammar...but no worries as I mis-spell my own name on occasion.

If I understand your latest post correctly, you are asking why the christian religion lives on despite universal knowledge that it is a fallacy...?

I may be wrong, but only because I'm baked, but it may be that those that still believe are "holding" onto their belief because it validates their stance...

Thanks for knowing my motives there...another assumption...

"universal knowledge"? huh? another intellectually-wanting supposition...got some statistics on that? how about the variance? or maybe the standard deviation?

Please, know who you challenge...you need your A-game bro...

= = = = =

GW...please let me clarify/amplify ok? A central message that was listed in my earlier post...Christians disagree on 'minors' not 'majors'

As hard as it is...He still says who do YOU say I am? That's the deal...