Nine schoolboy rapists facing jail for punishment attack on 14-year-old who 'insulted gang leader'

Typical gang behavior. One or a few kids who are evil can influence small groups to follow them in anything.

Personally, I think the only solution once this has happened is a massively punitive response. If I was the father of the girl, they would all face a personal death sentences upon release, and I would be quite comfortable having the state administer it as well, regardless of the perpetrators' ages. Barring a death sentence, I strongly believe they should be incarcerated for life, to hell with the cost.

For the sake of prevention, our society should be much more active in intervening in and stopping gang behavior. Minors should not be assumed to have the same rights as adults, and they should be specifically prohibited from those sorts of associations.

The harsh reality we are going to have to face is that there really are evil people, those who choose to do wrong, and it is not a sickness or a disease, but a way of life with consequences. We can either have those consequences be severe upon those who choose evil, or we can pay the consequences of offering up our children as sacrifices at the alter of liberal thinking.

Originally posted by Brothers
I have to believe that the parents are the low life and the children just follw what their parents do. Probably they are on welfare and have no education. Sorry, but they have nothing to contribute to society as far as I can see. Just sterilize them all so that no more bad seed is spread on this planet. There are just too many of them already here. Also blame the government for even letting this happen in this day and age.

Well your beliefs are nothing more then a generalization of the lower class of people. Not all parents who come from low income housing have rapists or crack sellers for sons and daughters. So because they have had a harder life they have nothing to contribute to society? Sorry, I don't see your logic. So you think if you sterilize every low life then their kids and families would be happier?

Sorry kiddo your logic fails. If people cared about the low life people then there wouldn't be as much separation between any class.

It has nothing to do with how much you income is or anything. It's about parents being to g*ddamned busy with there own life's to properly raise there kids.

If you choose to have childeren then you should also realize that a large amount of you time will have to be invested in giving them the proper values.You cannot leave this up to the schools nd teachers....they are your children, you raise 'm

You get what you give....goes double when it comes to children

When i was that age, i knew exactly what i was doing....

This is barbaric, it really is...

As of late, i'm getting quite concerned about the state of the world.

Let's not forget that these fiends are a year or two out of puberty, they will be highly charged and full of lust, they will also be very impressionable and whether you want to believe it or not, they have access to as much sex and violence they need on the internet, on dvd and on the television.

Also gang culture is at an explosive peak, every day we are hearing about knife crime, gun crime, rape, assault, torture, beheadings, bombings...

So what do we do?

How do we punish fourteen year olds? Sending them to a juvenile correction shelter will accomplish nothing. They will again be immersed in divisive gang culture, sending them to prison will achieve even worse results.

A state Killing will be, to many, as equally as equally as barbaric.

So..... how do we set an example, how do we prevent future crimes?

Do we censor the internet with extra laws, cut down on the nastier sides of pornography and all violent videos?

How do we deal with and dilute the gang culture? It is so widespread....

Do we censor our television?

Can you see where this is going? We will have to one day decide between our pleasures and our pains....

Because we are allowed so much 'evil' (and i choose that word with regret, but its the only word that suits the meaning), we become evil.

But by doing that, we'll lose everything else.

So.... the moral dilemma remains.

Do we then, as a society stand on our moral and somewhat hypocritical high horse and plead that these fourteen year olds are just a creation of the reality we have formed* or do we take the other step and consider what we base our morals on...

As humans, as people, we have created this monster, whether through choice, through ignorance, through denial, through a lack of effort.

It will happen again, and again and again.... and i'll tell you why.

Because it has now made the headlines. It has been absorbed into our consciousness, soon millions of newspapers will carry the words and millions of people will absorb it.
The sickets thing about this scenario, is that those millions of people, will do very little about it, and will forget about it, and it will fade into history....

But all the influential minds out there, will once again use this terrible thing as a crutch, and will go out and repeat this. This is why society has bred copycat killers....

The fourteen year old kids are 100% sent to blame.
But the hard fact is..... so are we.

We created this monster.

----

My solution would be to set a counter-example.

To prove that this will not be allowed to happen again.

To set in stage another immoral choice, but to set the example, use the media (that created this mess) as a counter tool.

To show the world that these little monsters and any of the other thugs and beasts and fiends out there, that a certain justice DOES exist.

---

I know my post is confusing, but i'm basically trying to say.... Would a public execution be the right choice?

Before i get the backlash, i'm not saying it is my opinion, but a drastic observation.

Obviously and no doubt, there will be members on here that will say it will be like radical islam (like Iran hanging rapists and teens and the like), there will be a bombardment of liberal flaming, and no doubt a reaction from the other side, claiming its unconstitutional and you'll ALL be right.... and you'll ALL be wrong.

Because, if we can't even make a decision as a society, then doesn't that prove that the reason the media is the winner here, is because it uses this as a weapon and way of controlling. We as a race are indecisive because we have been split into groups. For and against everything.

Imagine how the world would change, if we shut down all the television stations, stopped the press and 'turned off' the internet....

I bet you can't....


----

My heart goes out to the family of the young girl. May you find some comfort somewhere.

Let's hope karma exists, because otherwise i see no justice.

Peace

Mr L


* That's for another thread I think.

The 16year olds?

Jail for a VERY long time..

The 13-14 year olds.. jail until they are 21.

Disgusting.. at 16 though, you know damn well what your doing, and you know right from wrong.

I challenge ANYONE to tell me, at 16, if you thought gang raping a girl sounded like a fun idea and not wrong in any way!

Those bastards ought to be thrown in jail for the rest of their lives as far as I am concerned, not a day less then 25 years would make me happy.

I know many people will blame computer games,films and music.(as always)But i think thats a poor excuse.Millions of kids around the world can play the same games,listen to the same music,watch the same films and the vast majority of them don't go out and commit vicious crimes.Its too easy to lay the blame on such things.It also means the authorities don't have to deal with the problem.


And,as operation mindcrime said,many parents care too much about themselves than their kids.They also don't give a damn what they get up to.Once there out the front door they give up all responsibility.Thats one area where work needs to be done.


Too many people oppose the death penalty without thinking it through.They immediatly start thinking of the past when you could be hung for stealing a loaf of bread,along with possible miscarriages of justice happening.But i've always believed that murderers,rapists and pedophiles who have been found guilty without a shadow of a doubt deserve the death penalty.Do-gooders would howl over the fact that these boys are just kids,but i say that once you commit this kinda crime you cease to be a child.You have entered the adult world and need to be treated accordingly.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
The 16year olds?

Jail for a VERY long time..

The 13-14 year olds.. jail until they are 21.

Disgusting.. at 16 though, you know damn well what your doing, and you know right from wrong.

I challenge ANYONE to tell me, at 16, if you thought gang raping a girl sounded like a fun idea and not wrong in any way!

No. I completely outgrew this by 16...

I think you attribute too much to the arbitrary.

There isn't some kind of universal psychological development that occurs at 16 that would dismiss the 15 and under from this.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by jakyll
I know many people will blame computer games,films and music.(as always)But i think thats a poor excuse..Its too easy to lay the blame on such things.It also means the authorities don't have to deal with the problem.

Where else did the IDEA of group rape come from? It's not taught at schools, it's not taught by parents or neighbours or the postman.
Word of mouth maybe.... From criminals maybe..... But even that wouldn't create global awareness of this scale.

Of course it's the media. It's corrupt.
Bad parenting maybe... but doesn't bad parenting equate to negligence, abandonment and such, where else do young minds wander for stimulus?

It doesn't have to wander far, because on a daily basis, we ARE bombarded with imagery, subliminal and the obvious..... We are being forcefed a reality.....

www.abovetopsecret.com...


It's on the internet, it's in the papers and it's everywhere....

Millions of kids around the world can play the same games,listen to the same music,watch the same films and the vast majority of them don't go out and commit vicious crimes

Your absolutely right... We'll discuss this again in TWO generations time and see if it gets worse. Let someone else deal with it for now.




[edit on 10-11-2008 by mr-lizard]

This happens everyday I have a niece it happened too and she refuses to tell their names to anyone. I told her just tell me and she won't have to worry about their threats because there will be none left to threaten her.

Only one solution in my opinion. Kill them. It ensures they never do it again and deters all the copycats. I don't know why females almost never reveal the names of these pukes. I have no problem pulling the switch/trigger on everyone of them.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


There is.. 15 I would say can go with the 16year olds..

A 13 year old you could only imagine the pressure.. following what the older kids are doing.. aware that it's wrong, but not entirely so..

reply to post by Darthorious


In a perfect world.......

reply to post by mr-lizard

Where else did the IDEA of group rape come from? It's not taught at schools, it's not taught by parents or neighbours or the postman.

Well,i wasn't really talking just about this case.My bad,for not making my thoughts clearer.Its a very popular excuse though,and takes all responsibility away from those who should have it.

The idea of group rape can be found in the Bible,in history books,or on the news,for example.The media doesn't create this kind of human,it just helps give them ideas.

And,lets not forget,these violent crimes happened not only long before the media existed but also long before the media became as graphic as it has.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

A 13 year old you could only imagine the pressure.. following what the older kids are doing.. aware that it's wrong, but not entirely so..

I sure as h**l hope i drove the message home to my 6 year old that you should never ever do something just because somebody else does it.

What pressure ?? Where is the backbone of this 13 year old to not follow a group.....

reply to post by operation mindcrime


Agreed. When it comes to peer pressure I think there is a huge difference between say doing drugs because your friends do and gang raping a girl with eight other people, even if these teens’ parents did not properly "educate" them.

Violence in England? Preposterous! I thought England was perfect, and America was the festering *snip* full of violence? Can any Englishman back me up?

/sarcasm

But seriously, I am appalled by this, and I have been quite desensitized over the years, due to the Internet. I hope those pimple faced criminals learn the true meaning of punishment during their stay in prison.

[edit on 11/10/2008 by prototism]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 11/11/2008 by maria_stardust]

Chrildren as young as ten know what their actions are.
They can determine right from wrong.
Acting "Under pressure" is no excuse for children- Just like it should no excuse for adults.

It's sad to see children in such a state, acting in such a way.
But I too say lock them up, let them sit and think on what they've done. Let them waste away their youth in a cell.

Young offenders get away with too much.
Hell, MOST offenders get away with too much.

The kids are blamed... it's not their fault

It's all the legal system and the police.

Many people have echoed physical punishment

and

More than that, we live in a world where, self defense is not legal... even if found not guilty a decent person will, loose their jobs, be held in jail while their family can be further victimized and left broke even if they manage to "get off" with a self defense plea


There is a way... gangs would vanish, if your typical Dad, could show up...just once anywhere in the media with a bat and punish these kids appropriately and... be allowed to

But it's a tyrannical police state and Police, protect criminals in the end more than innocents... period

This would not happen in a different system... or very rarely

Because the Gang (lol okay real gangs are men bty not 14 and 15 year olds) would get their arses handed to them...

it's a joke really, at 38 with my intelligence...

no gang of teens could exist within a mile or 2 of my home if I felt like dealing with them...

under rule of law, they get to

and honestly...

young guys like that need to take the severity of a beating to become men... know what it feels like, it's GOOD for them...

It's no favor to be a Guy...a tough guy at that and reach 15 with no one ever having kicked your arse

As with all things, the solution can be found in the Bible.

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Put these scum to death.

See, in my opinion, it's mainly the parents. Between the ages of like 5 and 10-ish primary socialisation is your main means of influence. If their parents had taught them how to act and maybe given the more attention they had had, maybe, I don't know. Then after about age 11, you start secondary school. Yes you maybe all have said that you were aware of what you were doing at age 13, but you must admit that it's a highly impressionable age. With a gang, it's either follow and act or be beaten to the ground. Maybe even killed. I wouldn't put it past them, you can't trust kids these days.

And about capital punishmnt coming back, I am all for it. Either that or life sentence that means you stay in there until the end of your life. Having consequences like that hanging over your head might make you think twice about acting wrongly. Might. But bringing punishment back into schools won't be too easy. For instance, imagine a typical 14 year old talking back in class. I highly doubt you'll get them to take a small beating without them turning around and hitting you right back. Maybe it would work starting from primary schools with a tap on the wrist or something? Teachers these days aren't even allowed to grab you to stop you walking out of class!

[[By Venomous Gaze who forgot to log out of her mums account >.

Preface: Being neither a parent, nor a perpetrator I think I have an unbiased opinion about the matter. Therefore, I think I will be playing the antagonist here, in light of the majorities opinion.....

It is not as if I do not agree with what you all are saying but I see a lot of assumptions and generalizations be made overall. At 10 years old blah blah blah. At 15 or 16 years old blah blah blah. This is assuming everyone is similar, if not the same, at 10, 15, or 16 years old. This is generalizing.

Does anyone here really know how those kids were raised or how there parents treated them? Due to the number, I cannot even quote everyone I saw in this thread who made these assumptions (forgive me if there is some source of information stating this; If so, I retract the previous statements).

I consider myself as a so-so philosopher, so when I hear most of you claiming that you know what justice is, I chuckle in my head a little bit. We may think we know or sense what justice is, but overall it is incomprehensible at the moment. If this is not obvious then let me elaborate.

Justice, similar to the words "right" and "wrong" are relativistic terms, from society to society, and from person to person. So, for example, when someone here says, "I hope they get the max sentence!" or "They deserve 25 years or more!", this is all relative to you and makes no sense with regards to the absolute. The absolute is obviously not known to anyone, so forgive me for using this term. So as not to be hypocritical, I myself do not claim to know what absolute justice is, but only to get as near as possible, striving to get there, in the most logical of fashions.

I find it profoundly disconcerting and saddening when I hear your senses of justice be pronounced, when they are fueled by your emotions and deficient in logic.

I only say all of this because has anyone thought about the parents of the perpetrators? To take the converse outlook, one must imagine being in that disheartening situation from their shoes. If I was a parent and I learned of my son's reprobated behavior, then I would feel as if I failed as a parent.

Say the kids were locked up for 25 years. Now imagine what the parent(s) of those perpetrators feel.

Conclusion: I think one must feel sympathy for both parties in order to ascertain what justice would be in this case. In light of everything I said, I am not exempt from such emotionally driven justice. We are all culprits, being as human as we are. If someone raped my daughter, I cannot imagine what I would do. That is what is so terrible. I feel as if at one moment I would kill the kids myself. At the next moment I could let our "sense of Justice" be realized, etc. Hopefully, I will never have to make that decision, and I hope the same for you all.





[edit on 11-11-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]

[edit on 11-11-2008 by Unlimitedpossibilities]