EXCLUSIVE: Agenda disappears from Obama Web site

reply to post by Wolf321


It's still cached in google if you search for it.

reply to post by danx


Thank you for researching this but there are discrepancies. The link you provided created an archive that does not match what I personally, as well as others, saw before the site was taken down. If you follow one of the links from your reference there are conflicting stories there as well. From that link we can find this:

Change You Can See on Flickr

One day, Obama is going to "REQUIRE" 50 hours of community service from jr. high and sr. high school students, and 100 hours from college students. The next day, Obama's "setting a goal" that jr and sr high have to do community service, and creating a plan to give a tax credit of $4000 to college students who do 100 hours.

So, I still stand by my previous post. I don't think anyone here should be surprised that with a story about the government elite we have conflicting evidence. In that case, I can only come up with two possibilities. First, that the evidence and allegations that started the whole thing are fabricated (which I don't believe at all since I personally saw the sites contents,) or that the new evidence to validate the other story is fabricated. I tend to believe that its not uncommon or unrealistic to think that the government elite would do such a thing. For everyone else coming across this information, I supposed it comes down to faith in the conspiracy, like with 9/11 conspiracy theorist.

reply to post by Wolf321


What exactly has he "changed" that is worth even noticing? What has changed that would cause anyone's panties to get all bunched up and make a post, create articles, write blogs, or mislead people into believing there is something to it?

Personally, I like the idea of a tax credit for college kids who do community service. I give that change a big .

Originally posted by Wolf321
Thank you for researching this but there are discrepancies. The link you provided created an archive that does not match what I personally, as well as others, saw before the site was taken down. If you follow one of the links from your reference there are conflicting stories there as well. From that link we can find this:

The difference you talk about, shown here, is only in the clarity of the description of the plan.

The way it is now, in my opinion, describes much better what the people get in return for serving, which in the original wording wasn't even there.

In essence, his plan didn't change, only the wording.

Originally posted by aWoman
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Thank you for mentioning about Obama's promoting compulsatory servitude disguised as patriotism.

I watched his victory speech and the only thing that stopped me dead in my tracks was when he began talking about servitude. It was like a hush went over the crowd when he first spoke of it in that speech. I was shocked to hear him say it. Mandatory service for citizens of all ages does not reflect the democratic principles of our constitution.

I visited his new website and found it's contents to be of the very bare-bones/generalized variety with no real specifics mentioned.

America needs to wake up and move to impeach him as his agenda is anti-American.

First...on the servitude issue. Obama is not requiring anyone to serve for anything. It is your own free will to do so.

barackobama.com

Barack Obama and Joe Biden's Plan for Universal Voluntary Public Service

Everything he lays out is completely voluntary and the only thing you are REQUIRED to do is complete a certain number of hours of community service in order to receive a benefit from the government.

It's called encouragement. Why do you think you get certain tax breaks for doing things like donating to charity, contributing to a retirement plan, going to school, etc. It's in order to encourage people to do something for the benefit of society.

On the issue of his website being "barebones". Did you read it? What is bare bones about it?

Everything is extremely specific. So much so I didn't want to read all of it. For every issue there are at least 10 or so subissues in which they discribe what they believe is a good way to improve on the matter.

On impeachment...encouraging civic duty (NOT requiring it) is anti-American?

Making fair tax laws is anti-American? Last I checked America was founded on the idea that taxes should be fair. If it weren't for that issue alone, America most likely would still be under British rule.

Wanting renewable energy sources? Isn't getting away from foreign oil a national security matter. All the offshore drilling in the world isn't going to make us energy independent so we have to find other substitutions to get 100% independent of foreign oil.

I imagine you see where I'm going with this...

reply to post by danx


I have to rush this post but will try to add another later. As the primary example, the change of REQUIRE to SET A GOAL OF. That was the change made on the .gov site. In that simple example, the overall plan is the same, but there is a dramatic difference in something being an an ideal act of volunteerism, to a requirement set by government.

EDIT: Consider it a Social-crat political Freudian slip.

[edit on 12-11-2008 by Wolf321]

Originally posted by Wolf321
I have to rush this post but will try to add another later. As the primary example, the change of REQUIRE to SET A GOAL OF. That was the change made on the .gov site. In that simple example, the overall plan is the same, but there is a dramatic difference in something being an an ideal act of volunteerism, to a requirement set by government.

EDIT: Consider it a Social-crat political Freudian slip.

And I would agree with you, if the plan hadn't been called Universal Voluntary Public Service from the start, as nunya13 points out. It was never mandatory.

The reason for the wording required is as in "you are required to do x in order to get y". You are not required to serve, however, to get the benefits, you are required to serve.

The same way you are not required to serve in the military, but in order to get the certain military benefits you are required to serve x amount of time.

Require 100 Hours of Service in College: Obama and Biden will establish a new American Opportunity Tax Credit that is worth $4,000 a year in exchange for 100 hours of public service a year.

Sounds like basic logic to me.

But I understand how one would think this was somehow a socialist Freudian slip if one is convinced Obama is a socialist and is obsessively trying to find socialism in his agenda.

edit: fixed links



[edit on 12-11-2008 by danx]

Of course it disappeared. Now that his smooth talking conned him into the White House, gone are the promises. Can't believe anyone would be surprised...except for the people he conned.

Originally posted by danx
It was never mandatory.

I don't think it was mandatory during his campaign, as indicated by the barakobama.com campaign site. When they posted the post election .gov site, someone had to go in and change 'set a goal of' from the campaign site to 'require.'

The reason for the wording required is as in "you are required to do x in order to get y". You are not required to serve, however, to get the benefits, you are required to serve.

The case can be made based upon what one believes. From his history, I believe that he will utilize this to restrict people. Example, people who receive Pell Grants. I expect to see, based upon this, that he will try to force service in order to receive government grants.

But I understand how one would think this was somehow a socialist Freudian slip if one is convinced Obama is a socialist and is obsessively trying to find socialism in his agenda.

I don't think one has to search to find the socialist pregression agenda, I think his words and actions jump out on their own.

reply to post by Wolf321


Here...From December 5 2007 version...

The third part of my plan will be integrating service into education, so that young Americans are called upon and prepared to be active citizens.

Just as we teach math and writing, arts and athletics, we need to teach young Americans to take citizenship seriously. Study after study shows that students who serve do better in school, are more likely to go to college, and more likely to maintain that service as adults. So when I'm President, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year. This means that by the time you graduate college, you'll have done 17 weeks of service.

We'll reach this goal in several ways. At the middle and high school level, we'll make federal assistance conditional on school districts developing service programs, and give schools resources to offer new service opportunities. At the community level, we'll develop public-private partnerships so students can serve more outside the classroom.

The part that made it REQUIRED was...At middle and high school level,we'll make federal assistance CONDITIONAL on school districts developing service programs then the rest of the paragraph...

Here is the link to the full page with all the ORIGINAL stuff he said on it...

www.barackobama.com...


I am trying to learn to post on ATS...

I am sorry if I didn't do something right I am trying to follow the rules...The last time I posted I did it wrong...Just let me know if I messed up again...

I am not trying to sound crazy by going on and on about this...

I just don't think community service should be Required or Mandatory...

Involuntary servitude...13th amendment...Laboring against ones will to benefit another...

Wikipedia link for those interested...

en.wikipedia.org...

Like I have said maybe it will never happen...
But...I will not pretend there is not any talk going on about it...
There is...or has been...

Now a overhaul and change of wording is being done...

In my opinion and many other it WAS looking very Required...

Wolf321 am I right??? Or have I totally lost my mind???

Is this the page you were looking for???

If I am totally wrong...I am sorry..

reply to post by sapphirearaidia


I wasn't looking for any particular page, but you made a good post and seem to understand the intent in brining this to ATS.

Obama has seemed to indicate a desire to force service.

Originally posted by Wolf321
The case can be made based upon what one believes. From his history, I believe that he will utilize this to restrict people. Example, people who receive Pell Grants. I expect to see, based upon this, that he will try to force service in order to receive government grants.

I'm not making a case based on what I believe, I'm making the case based on what the plan is, while apparently you are arguing on what Obama might do in the future.

I'm simply analyzing their campaign platform and promises. If they will be implemented or not, that's another matter and only time will tell, won't it?

I don't think one has to search to find the socialist pregression agenda, I think his words and actions jump out on their own.

Is this plan of Public Service, the one we're talking about, socialist?

I have the impression people kick around the label socialist to loosely, and for stuff that has nothing to do with socialism.

Originally posted by fleabit
Um.. because they are redoing their website, suddenly, he isn't going to live up to campaign promises?

That's a stretch even for this site. How about.. we let him actually take office and try to do what he says, before we string him up, eh? Missing text from a website doesn't mean he suddenly has a completely different agenda. Jump to conclusions much?

Sure... but, it seems to be getting cleaned off the entire net.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


So you are an Obama Supporter!? Whooptedoooo, LOL! This generation is full of nothing but bigotry, especially Obama Supporters! This is why Obama is changing the "CHANGE"! When he said "CHANGE", I guess he really meant it! Except his way of change is deception, lies, and reverse-racism! I see it EVERYWHERE...I have to use the dang bus, and all I see is bigotry and racist remarks from your so called black youths, and the black bus drivers don't do a dang thing about it. Now if I, being white, just simply said the "N" word, every black person on that bus would rise up! THAT IS BIGOTRY AND RACISM!!! The news isn't saying anything about that crap are they!? Heck no!

Thank GOD I'm not a wimp. I stand up in the face of reverse-racism and I say what is RIGHT...on those buses!
The other day about 30 black youths got on the bus at the same time, and they started to yell that Obama finally got one over on the white man! You know what I stood up and said? I said, FIRST OF ALL OBAMA IS HALF WHITE, SO HOW CAN A HALF WHITE MAN GET ONE OVER ON THE WHITE MAN? AND, IF IT WASN'T FOR THE WHITE VOTE OBAMA WOULD NOT HAVE EVEN BEEN ELECTED!!!

Guess what happened when I said that?! They ALL shut up quick! I voted for McCain, but you don't see me, or any McCain supporters yelling on the buses slanderous and racists remarks! I didn't do it when I voted for Bush, and not one Bush supporter made racial slurs on the bus! The blacks have made this a dang racist election, when most of them do not even realize that Obama is as half white as much as he is half black!

So, don't you try to convince us that every Obama supporter is not a bigot, because I see that garbage EVERY SINGLE DAY!!! I'm not paranoid either, thinking there will be some sort of race war, but I do see hate and bigotry from many black youths! Just like the church Obama went to for about 20 years! He dissed his pastor when his pastor was ruining his campaign. You sure didn't see Obama care about that for 20 some odd years!

And, what about his proposal to Hillary Clinton if he was the winner of his democratic party? Obama said publicly that he would ask Hillary Clinton to be his running mate! Obama lied through his teeth, yet he still deceived many! I guess this country's youth are not as non-bigoted as you would like others to believe, AND THERE ARE SO MANY OTHER THINGS AS WELL! Many are blinded and so deceived, and it makes me sick!

And, don't you think for a minute I hate you or anybody! I don't even hate the racists youth! I LOVE EVERYONE, but sometimes it burns me up when someone makes statements such as yours which are not the facts! Obama is nothing but change, but his change is deception!

I am praying for his protection, his leadership, and his direction, because it is too late to second guess HIM, and I will pray for everyone else, even you, because without prayer Obama doesn't have a chance. Anyone who looks at EVERYTHING going on because of the election can clearly see that the change Obama speaks of is his reversing everything he has been standing up for, and GOD HELP US if he goes through with some of the crap that he plans to do! Whew! I feel better! LOL! Anyone, everyone, needs a vent, when they are threatened every single day!

Originally posted by Marcus Calpurnius
Notice the crickets? Yeah, thats all his supporters who could care less. Obvama can do no evil, even if its going back on every damn thing he said to get elected. They will simply dismiss it as typical politician tactics.

/begin_rant

If you are going to use a phrase you could at least phrase it correctly.

the phrase is "couldn't care less." It's supposed to illustrate your utter and complete lack of concern. Saying "could care less" means there is still room for you to care less. You aren't the only one who gets this wrong. I see it all over the place.

/end_rant