Alien Abduction, UFO's, Extraterrestrials, Discussion.

Don't get mad at me, I just call 'em as I see 'em...

Originally posted by foremanator
How many monkey's are there in the world?
Say 6,700,000,000
How many of those monkey's do you think can prove they were abducted by Human Beings?

An excellent point! How many monkeys have proof, indeed! The gap between us and any putative alien species would be at least as large, if not more!

Originally posted by Master_Skeptic
reply to post by The Dave

 

Actually they do. Alien implants which have been tested and the results show the objects are made up of materials only ever rarely found in asteroids.

I’ve seen the same video you have and read the same article but there are many alternative explanations for the material and show me where it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that these implants were indeed put there by aliens?
[edit on 10-11-2008 by Master_Skeptic]

Most of this data appears to be loosely based on the ratio of certain isotopes, as well as the presence/absence of certain elements. Now my question to all of you is this: Why isn't there evidence of isotopic fractionation in the material used to manufacture the implants? Since we currently something as terrestrial or extraterrestrial based on these ratios, then shouldn't we expect to see a completely different isotopic ratio in the materials used to manufacture putative alien implants? Why is the ratio of elements present in these implants identical to the material left over from the formation of our own solar system? Shouldn't it be different if the implants were manufactured elsewhere?

My argument is this, if these implants have isotopic ratios and REE (Rare Earth Element) levels identical to IDPs and meteorites collected in our own proverbial backyard, then by default, the raw materials must also have originated nearby. This is not what I would expect an alien society to do (particularly if the aim was to study us without our knowledge). Extracting these raw materials for manufacturing purposes should yield some sort of evidence.

If a visiting alien species is really as advanced as we would expect them to be (given that they got here in the first place), then I wouldn't expect them to be mining in our solar system; I'd expect implants to be brought with them or synthesized en route. Both scenarios would result in data that would be inconsistent with all our previously collected data. Wouldn't we expect to see ratios that suggest an extrasolar origin (specifically, from their home world where life clearly exists and leaves a unique imprint on the environment as an isotopic signature?)? Since we haven't had the opportunity to test soil, water, and air samples from an extrasolar planet, we would not be able to determine it's source (what good is a name-tag sewn in a lost piece of clothing without an address or phone number?).

Either the aliens have been covertly mining in our solar system (literally, right under our noses), or there is something seriously wrong with the data. Does this seem logical to anyone else? If aliens were responsible for implanting the items tested, then the raw materials used in manufacturing them came from here (this solar system). What that suggests about these aliens is anyone's guess but it's an important clue that should not be overlooked.

Originally posted by Master_Skeptic
Excellent points, I have a few theories about all of this and there are many other possibilites out there that still do not include Aliens. I will be posting some of those theories soon when I put them all together.

Just to give you an idea of a few of them.

Time Travellers,
Native terrans (An unknown intelligent species living here)
Interdimensional beings existing on and within earth.
A past civilization that separated themselves from us on earth and is much more technologically advanced than us possibly ... still living on earth in secret. [edit on 11-11-2008 by Master_Skeptic]

They're not as crazy as they sound given my last post on this thread (evidence with [compositional] signatures consistent with material from our own backyard indicates that this is the most likely point of origin-- at least, where implants are concerned if the data is to be taken at face value). I'd consider most of these to be viable alternatives, given how long life has existed on Earth (~4 billion years). Countless species existed here and yet, just one evolved the ability to leave Earth? An interesting thought, at least. When you say, "within Earth", you mean "underground" right? You're not one of those people who believes that Earth is hollow, are you? Just making sure!

reply to post by Witness2008


Where are the japanese, chinese, african, aboriginal people of Australia, Afghanistan people, people of the bahamas, egyption and malaysion abductee stories.....where are they?...hmmm....i have also linked harvard scientists who have studied this phenomenon and have done tests and have made some very good points to counter the abduction phenomenon as just a type of metnal problem. So yep I have done my research..meaning I think I have read almost every book claiming abductions ...so You see I have looked into both sides. So do tell me and show me the links to all of the above having been abducted and coming forwqard then I will keep quiet about these not happening all around the world. It's not very mature to tell me to go play with blocks......just shows that when someone makes a valid point to counter claims...the small minded of your group get offended and childish. I have not just come to my conclusions on a whim. I used to believe but then a lot of things just did not add up, so now i question..instead of being a sheep. Maybe it is you who should do a little more research into the subject...instead of just reading the books that are for abdcutions maybe you should also read research papers from valid organisations, such as harvard, that also counter these claims.

[edit on 13-11-2008 by riggs2099]

[edit on 13-11-2008 by riggs2099]

reply to post by riggs2099


Here are some stories from Australia:

A giant silver bird is said to have descended to earth in Central Australia in the long-ago Dreamtime, which disgorged beings who proceeded to round-up tribespeople whom they conducted inside the great bird, which then flew away with them, never to return.

And then there was the warrior who watched the great shining bird [or was it another?] land in the Arnhem Land scrub with a terrifying roar, emitting flames from its behind. Two culture-heroes emerged from its mouth and the warrior at first challenged them with his spear. Subsequently the two beings enticed him inside the ‘bird’ which flew off into the sky, from where he was shown his tribal lands by the beings as the great bird flew high over the earth. The great bird eventually landed and he was released.

Gulf Country tribespeople believed in a similar great metallic ‘bird’ which descended to earth in the long-ago Dreamtime, long before the coming of the white man. In one account tribespeople were captured by it and flown up to the Sky World where they were kept for a time. Young lubras were kept, along with some young men and old people, while the rest were eventually returned to their tribal land.

Queensland’s far north was the scene, in Dreamtime Australia, of individual warriors beings seized by strange beings who flew them to another world, some of whom were eventually returned.

Aborigines of the Cape York region once spoke of a “great glowing mountain” that descended from the clouds to bring rain to the parched earth and fertilise the land, its animal and tribal inhabitants.

I have obtained old stories of other worlds in the sky to which tribespeople have been taken by beings with great powers. One tale concerned a great mountain that emerged from the Sky World to land deep in the ‘Cape’ scrub. Some Aboriginal men and women are said to have stepped onto it and were flown away to the Sky World never to be seen again. Other tribespeople who were the victims of these prehistoric ‘alien abductions’ are said to have been taken to lands floating in the sky, forest lands full of game, lands with mountains, here they spend unknown lengths of time before their friendly abductors return them to their own world.

www.mysteriousaustralia.com...

reply to post by riggs2099


You have not made any valid points and I doubt that you have done any serious research.

I don't have to prove anything to you other than how incredibly incorrect you have been on this thread.

China.....www.gather.com...

Europe.....www.geocities.com...

Originally posted by riggs2099
reply to post by Witness2008

 

Maybe it is you who should do a little more research into the subject...instead of just reading the books that are for abdcutions maybe you should also read research papers from valid organisations, such as harvard, that also counter these claims.
[edit on 13-11-2008 by riggs2099]

I take it you're referring to Clancy's work which contrasts sharply with Mack's studies (both of whom worked at Harvard). Having spent a considerable amount of time at Harvard myself I understand that just because one Harvard PI (principal investigator) reaches a conclusion, that does not make it a unanimous decision across the entire field of study (even at the same institution). The only reason Clancy got the last word is because Prof. Mack died first. It's as simple as that. We won't ever know what he would have produced, had he lived.

Ufology in it's present state lacks the credibility that Prof. Mack brought to it, prior to his untimely demise. Everyone has their own version of events and while a subset of those seem to have a lot in common, the scarcity of hard, physical evidence does little to facilitate our analysis of the situation. How can we even begin to assemble a battery of tools that would allow us to thoroughly characterize this phenomenon if we lack the ability to distinguish fact from fiction? Although I do not believe that everyone who claims to have been abducted has been, likewise we cannot completely discount the possibility that at least some were.

At least where the tooth fairy and Santa Claus are concerned, we can trace the evolution of these imaginary figures to specific historical roots. While there is a history in ufology of abduction phenomenon, defining the precise moment at which the abduction phenomenon came into being is more difficult. The alien abduction phenomenon did not derive from a single historical figure like Santa Claus. True, mass media does make it all that much more difficult to segregate those who are genuine and sincere from those who are just out to get attention or escape from reality. Mass media also makes it just as difficult to get a fair and unbiased jury in a trial but we have yet to overhaul our judicial system in response to it. We accept the risk of prejudice and seek to minimize the influence of mass media to the best of our abilities. It isn't perfect but it's the best we can do.

As much as I enjoyed my time at Harvard, no institution on Earth, not even Harvard, is perfect (and that includes it's faculty and the research undertaken there).

reply to post by ziggystar60


The author of this has obviously read what he believed into it. The tribes of australia have a very rich background when it comes to myth and legends. This is not proof of abdcution though.

reply to post by Witness2008


Your asian abduction story sure does differ from the western worlds version of aliens. Maybe because whatever culture you live in, then thats the version of alien you will imagine. STILL NO ONE HAS OFFEREDN ANY TYPE OF EVIDENCE THAT THIS IS WORLD WIDE.....COME ON PEOPLE...IF THIS IS HAPPENING THEN THIS SHOULD BE A PIECE OF CAKE FOR YOU.

reply to post by X-tal_Phusion


It wasn't Clancy....hmm...I am going to have to read her work though. It was a team of Harvard scientist doing experiments in a controlled enviroment. I will find the paper and re-link it. John Mack may have studied the phenomenon, but so have other scientist/psychiatrist and have to the conclusion that there is nothing to it. So I have no idea why one scientist word should be better than many scientists word. I have noticed that when these so-call psychiatric experts do "serious" research into this...they never do a serious in depth look into a person background...ie family, past mental states, mental issues in the family....etc. The only time they care about the persons background is if they think that another person in thier family is having these experiences. So I believe that these guys who do these regression sessions and such..ie Bud hopkins, John Mack...are not taken seriously is because first of all Bud Hopkins is a author not psychiatrist and John Mack never did an in depth over view of thier back ground nor have others in this field.

reply to post by riggs2099


Nothing like changing the goal post. You asked for accounts from around the world...you recieved a few. Now you want PROOF. Seeing how you are the one accusing contactees as being mentaly disturbed I think you are the one that needs to provide proof.

reply to post by X-tal_Phusion


Very little of the research these days is left in the hands of big institutions. I have found that the slant that is given any so called findings tends to reduce the experiencer to a subject instead of the messenger we all are. Most contactees turn to others in their same shoes. It is unbelievable and must be given believable meaning by much of the world.

One of the reasons that the Western countries have seen the majority of abduction cases is because of the missing RH Factor in the blood. Early on in my contact that was one of the messeges given me but it has taken months for any professional to even consider it. It turns out that is a common denominator amongst us.

[edit on 14-11-2008 by Witness2008]

Why any abduction guy hasnt come with any evidence of them?? very simply, if you are race far more advance than the indigenous race (us) of course it would be a monumental task to gain any evidence of them doing the abductions.

We shot an elephan with a tranquilizer gun , the elephant sleeps, then you do a procedure (medical) then the elephant gets shots to reanimate, the elephant wake up alone not knowing what the heck happen, the elephant gets to the wilderness again and it will never know what happèn, he may have a sense that "something happen" but thats has far it can go. Now instead of the tranquilizer gun substitude that with any piece of technology that could do that without feeling anything from many meters.

OP, its a good question to ask yourself why no abdcuting people comes with any video..skin part, clothes or anything from this aliens, simply when they abduct you (i have been abducted) you dont any power, you get paralize and the need fo sleep, you fight it but fears too comes in your mind, you cant move, you cant scream you can only open your eyes and see (even with a lot of effort, many times i cant), you can see stuff then black out, the woke up in your room again some hours passes and you still dont remember quiet well that happen (foggy memory) but you remember "something" happen, sometimes you relieve that dream few days or motnhs later and you say wiell should be a nightmare it have to be nightmare (too much reading ats you will say), but when you wake up with marks in your body (forming a triangle or staright lines already healed) that you didnt have a day before (a night before) then you get notice something really is going on, you feel sleepy and not rested even sleeping 8 hours or more a day)..that are symptoms. They have technnlogy way beyond ours, they can enter your house not even opening your door, they can materilize and viceversa when they want to.


OP the question is, why they are abducting people?? has you can see the only way somebody could come with any evidence would be if aliens screw up something while doing it, but this would be something divine to happen or a miracle , they never screw up things and they never leave anything behind (clothes, dna, skin, something) they put everything has it was when they got in, they leave only some foggy memories and thats it, and foggy memories can never make anyone looking for a tangible proff believe that something indeed happen.

I am sorry OP but you are chasing a death end here, you will never find any "material" proff of an abuction, just some freak stories and some freaks marks of somebody but something from the "aliens"..nope, never.

reply to post by AlexDJ


Alex - I have some sympathy with this argument - that alien tech is so advanced and beyond us - but also some reservations.

For one, it's utterly unfalsifiable. If nobody had ever reported an abduction experience, I could still argue that everyone in the world was being abducted every night, and there's not a thing you could do to prove me wrong. In effect, it means nothing, because it basically says "the phenomenon taking place is identical to the phenomenon not taking place".

For another, alleged aliens appear very human in most ways. Two arms, two legs. Eyes, nose, mouth. Vehicles that move about. Dead bodies, if you believe Roswell. They touch us physically. We can see them, so they emit light that may be captured on film. They can't erase our memories totally. And so on.

To put it another way, their tech isn't that great that they don't need a ship. "If it bleeds, we can kill it", a la Predator. Well, if we can see it, we can film it. If they can touch us, we can touch them. And so on.

Originally posted by riggs2099
reply to post by X-tal_Phusion

 

It wasn't Clancy....hmm...I am going to have to read her work though. It was a team of Harvard scientist doing experiments in a controlled enviroment. I will find the paper and re-link it. John Mack may have studied the phenomenon, but so have other scientist/psychiatrist and have to the conclusion that there is nothing to it. So I have no idea why one scientist word should be better than many scientists word. I have noticed that when these so-call psychiatric experts do "serious" research into this...they never do a serious in depth look into a person background...ie family, past mental states, mental issues in the family....etc. The only time they care about the persons background is if they think that another person in thier family is having these experiences. So I believe that these guys who do these regression sessions and such..ie Bud hopkins, John Mack...are not taken seriously is because first of all Bud Hopkins is a author not psychiatrist and John Mack never did an in depth over view of thier back ground nor have others in this field.

If it wasn't Clancy, then who were you referring to (her previous PI perhaps?)? Researcher's names mean more than the names of institutions with whom they happen to be affiliated with. I disagree that Mack failed to investigate his subjects' backgrounds (esp. where histories of mental illness were concerned). However, I do agree with your statement about Bud Hopkins. Clearly he isn't qualified to be doing regression and the likelihood that he is inadvertently triggering false memory recall is high. I'm willing to meet you halfway where the literature warrants it, riggs2099.

reply to post by X-tal_Phusion



www.psychologytoday.com... is the on article I have read that made perfect sense...I guess clancy was involved with it...lol. I have read countless other articles...i am having trouble locating them...I have linked them in many posts...I am looking for them. These are the books I have read on Alien abductions

Passport to the Cosmos: Human Transformation and Alien Encounters
by John E. MacK

Encounters: A Psychologist Reveals Case Studies of Abductions by Extraterrestrials
by Dr. Edith Fiore
Morning Glory: Diary of an Alien Abductee
by Gloria Ann Hawker
Diary of an Abduction: A Scientist Probes the Enigma of Her Alien Contact
by Angela Thompson Smith
The Andreasson Legacy
by Raymond E. Fowler
Mysteries of Alien Visitors and Abductions
by Kathryn Walker, Brian Innes
Abduction: Human Encounters With Aliens
by John E. MacK
Time Travelers from Our Future: An Explanation of Alien Abduction
by Bruce Goldberg
The Keepers: An Alien Message for the Human Race
by Jim Sparks
Alien Abductions: Opposing Viewpoints
by Patricia D. Netzley
Different Child
by Sandy Nichols, Michelle Guerin, Pat McCormack-Kerr
And many more...I have read communion..not sure who wrote that one.

reply to post by Witness2008


Okay I will make it more clear. When I asked for stories, I meant I wanted stories of greys abducting worldwide. Someone had stated that these lil grey fellas are world wide and taking people from all over...so I am asking if this is happening then where are these stories then. In North America large-headed gray aliens predominate, while in Britain abduction aliens are usually tall, blond, and Nordic, and South America tends toward more bizarre creatures, including hairy monsters. You see the greys are just a North American based fantasy. Your fantasy of alien depends purely in what continent, country you are from. SO I REPEAT...IF THE GREY ALIENS ARE DOING THIS WORLDWIDE THEN WHERE ARE THE STORIES....IF THIS IS HAPPENING THEN THIS SHOULD BE AN EASY TASK FOR YOU.

Identified by some psychologists and psychiatrists as part of an “extreme community” on the Internet that appears to encourage delusional thinking, a growing number of such Web sites are filled with stories from people who say they are victims of mind control and stalking by gangs of government agents. The sites are drawing the concern of mental health professionals and the interest of researchers in psychology and psychiatry.

www.nytimes.com...
This is what I believe is going on right now, The only difference is that it is aliens. Here is another article on what may be happeing to people.
www.lasvegassun.com...

[edit on 15-11-2008 by riggs2099]

Why is it all UFO enthusiasts seem to think like Religous Fanatics?

At the moment there is NO scientific Proof for UFO, either pics, physical evidence or implants ect. But people choose to BELIEVE in ufo's and there FAITH tells them its true and they will not be swayed on this belief.

I find people using all sorts of already discounted storys on this website and throw examples from some really dodgy sources. I mean Ezekial from the bible - give me strength!

I for one would love to belive but until its SCIENTIFICALLY prooven its nothing but speculation. If anybody here has one shred of Real proof that UFO's exist (maybe a clear pic or piece of flying saucer or a real Implant) and won't try and hide behind smoke and mirrors please stand up!