Outdoor heating, are you for or against?

If you've never seen it, then you'll probably never believe it.
Yet it is true that bars, pubs, restaurants and nightclubs are installing (or rather outstalling as the case may be) out door heating elements.

These devices are there for one main purpose (as can be supposed), to keep smokers warm on cold winter nights, and in the case of some restaurants, outdoor diners warm too.

Many pubs and bars have suffered huge losses due to the no smoking ban and these outdoor heaters can only be an attempt to grab back lost custom.

Yet they go against the entire principle of the 'global warming' message and carbon footprints etc etc.
These things must burn loads of electricity. They are hot and you can feel them from a considerable distance.

So just what is going on? Is Earth warming up or is it cooling down?
What government/local council official had the brain wave to allow this sort of insanity to ridicule the messages they themselves pump out about saving resources by the public cutting down on consumption. Who gave permission for these devices to be installed?

Obviously, profit is far more important than any global or human issue we may ever, or currently do, suffer from.

Hi dude.

Not sure what to make of these.

Fine for home use, the single ones out on the terrace on a chilly evening but with regards the ones in bars and restaurants you're right about it being a waste!

Not good for global warming in the LONG run but the people who run these places are going through a transitional period regarding the smoking bans.

I'm sure the costs of running these things is paid for by the customers in the end anyway. There is also the added benefit of attracting costomers towards a more comfortable atmosphere, smokers or not.

Thank goodness the French are less concerned about smoking from the point of view of other more health concious countries, wouldn't happen here too much. yes I'm a smoker

Give it a few years and we'll see the first case of gas poisoning or electrical accident in the (american) courts from these things.

[edit on 10/11/2008 by nerbot]

Yes, they exist, I know, I have seen them. I am for them because when you walk outside and it is cold it is nice to be warm.

Originally posted by nerbot
Hi dude.

Not sure what to make of these.

Fine for home use, the single ones out on the terrace on a chilly evening but with regards the ones in bars and restaurants you're right about it being a waste!

Not good for global warming in the LONG run

I'm sure the costs of running these things is paid for by the customers in the end anyway. There is also the added benefit of attracting costomers towards a more comfortable atmosphere, smokers or not.

[edit on 10/11/2008 by nerbot]

Hiya Nerbot,

real good to see you again.
Yes they would be good (maybe a bit too powerful) for home use, but if you're outside, you're technically 'not at home', saying that, whether you're at home or a bar, it is still a waste of time, effort, resources and lots of other things too, including any warmth gained.

Nope, not good for global warming (if it's real as we are led to believe). We are all aware how the heat from a city disrupts clouds and normal rainfall/temperature changes. I'm still waiting for the day that somebody wins the annual bet of 'will it snow on christmas day in London?'. These extra heat sources can only do more harm.
Add to that the recent news and arguments and laws regarding home owners/landlords ensuring their houses are properly insulated and have certificates etc....

We will all pay the costs, both financially and from resources, whether it be fossil fuels or wind power, the kit and people involved in keeping everything running is immense in comparison to the satisfaction of outdoor eaters/smokers and the small profits gained by pubs/restaurants.

All the while, we have global warming rammed down our throats and extra costs and taxes forced upon us, whilst insanity like these outdoor heaters are being widely adopted.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


yes it is nice to be warm, but if global warming is a real issue we must all consider, how much warmer is it going to get if we keep adding to it with false heating?

Originally posted by Extralien

Originally posted by nerbot
Hi dude.

Not sure what to make of these.

Fine for home use, the single ones out on the terrace on a chilly evening but with regards the ones in bars and restaurants you're right about it being a waste!

Not good for global warming in the LONG run

I'm sure the costs of running these things is paid for by the customers in the end anyway. There is also the added benefit of attracting costomers towards a more comfortable atmosphere, smokers or not.

[edit on 10/11/2008 by nerbot]

Hiya Nerbot,

real good to see you again.
Yes they would be good (maybe a bit too powerful) for home use, but if you're outside, you're technically 'not at home', saying that, whether you're at home or a bar, it is still a waste of time, effort, resources and lots of other things too, including any warmth gained.

Nope, not good for global warming (if it's real as we are led to believe). We are all aware how the heat from a city disrupts clouds and normal rainfall/temperature changes. I'm still waiting for the day that somebody wins the annual bet of 'will it snow on christmas day in London?'. These extra heat sources can only do more harm.
Add to that the recent news and arguments and laws regarding home owners/landlords ensuring their houses are properly insulated and have certificates etc....

We will all pay the costs, both financially and from resources, whether it be fossil fuels or wind power, the kit and people involved in keeping everything running is immense in comparison to the satisfaction of outdoor eaters/smokers and the small profits gained by pubs/restaurants.

All the while, we have global warming rammed down our throats and extra costs and taxes forced upon us, whilst insanity like these outdoor heaters are being widely adopted.

this is yet more evidence that the politicians know global warming is not man made.

angela merkel recently voted against imposing stricter guidelines regarding the allowed levels of emissions new cars...err...emit......she is constantly banging on about global warming..and how WE need to do something about it...and SHE votes against a measure that would force car makers to reduce emissions...probably because german cars are big..and powerful..and fast..

now...why would she think the german economy is more important than the future of the entire world?

she wouldnt..she knows global warming is a scam...

governments constantly build new airports...would they do this if they believed in man made global warming?






[edit on 11-11-2008 by alienesque]

Originally posted by pluckynoonez
Yes, they exist, I know, I have seen them. I am for them because when you walk outside and it is cold it is nice to be warm.

This post bothers me, it is a perfect example of what is wrong with society.
It's like "As long as I feel safe in my gas guzzling SUV, so what, it's more convenient to not recycle, I'll park in the handicapped parking space if I want to, I'll turn on all the lights on in my house because I like it to be always lit up, I won't eat left overs, just toss it"

"I'm for all that".

"You know why...because all that really matters is me, the world be damned, my personal needs and comfort trumps all." "I'll be a voracious consumer because it's nicer that way."

The world be damned, convenience is my god.

Sorry to insult you, but that IMO is really shallow.

I saw these yesterday actually for sale at Lowes. The ones they had operated on an LP gas tank.

If they are going to be used I'd think they'd be put to better use to put them in places like bus stops, etc where people may need to stand around for long periods in cold weather.

I agree with plucky,i think outdoor heaters are great,especially when its chilly.A few pubs etc have them near here.

The OP mentioned the amount of electricity being used by these heaters. I have only seen propane or natural gas units in my part of the country. I think that they are great. We only use them in the shoulder seasons of Fall and Spring our Winters are to cold.

It is fun to still be able to sit outside and eat a meal on a patio in the Fall. These are clean burning units so I wouldn't worry about the carbon footprint. Just sit back relax and drink a nice cold beer under the warmth of a patio heater. Hopefully, the fun police won't take them away.

reply to post by Frogs


Bus stops? Nice lawsuit waiting to happen. Pardon me, city of New York, but your fire burning heaters burned me at the bus stop. These heaters should be used in a supervised and controlled environment only.
Wear a wool hat and dress in layers otherwise.

Perhaps when it's cold out people should be inside, at least inside the heat is retained inside insulated walls. It's like chasing a carrot on a stick, it uses great amounts of energy to create wasted heat. Do people heat their homes with the doors wide open?
No they don't because the furnace wouldn't stop.

If you must smoke, put on a friggin' jacket and a toque.

Using precious resources of fuel, weather it be propane or whatever to heat the outside air.

What a colossal waste!

Let's save our energy, we may really need to conserve it soon because we'll have no choice.

Originally posted by jibeho
The OP mentioned the amount of electricity being used by these heaters. I have only seen propane or natural gas units in my part of the country. I think that they are great. These are clean burning units so I wouldn't worry about the carbon footprint.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but would you be so kind as to find out exactly how much carbon is produced by the burning of gas.....

Or perhaps you'd like to take a quick browse over the info on this site;

Energy-related carbon dioxide emissions, resulting from the combustion of petroleum, coal, and natural gas, represented 82 percent of total U.S. anthropogenic greenhouse gas emissions in 2006

www.eia.doe.gov...

If you're still a bit unsure, try this simple calculator to help you (and anyone else) work out how much carbon is being emmitted by either electric powered or gas powered outdoor heaters... just dont forget overall costs too
www.nef.org.uk...

reply to post by Extralien


OMG. This was a serious post and the fun police do exist. I would love to find the stats regarding the pollution emitted from these heaters vs. the exhaled smoke from smokers.

Hey lets focus on industrial and auto emissions first and worry about the lowly patio heaters later. Do you have stats. regarding the number of heaters currently in use? Perhaps we could take the heaters to an E-check station and have them checked yearly.

I suppose wood burning heaters are out of the question also. Should I not be using my new 94% efficient natural gas fired furnace? Where does the Gore mentality end?

reply to post by jibeho


I have no intention of spoiling anyones fun, but mankind has managed for millions of years to be ble to eat outdoors all year round...and have fun too...

It just seems odd to me that now we have this smoking ban, these outdoor heaters have become more popular, combine that issue with the issue of global warming and it just makes you wonder which is worst... the laws t stop smoking indoors or the ever increasing carbon footprint and total waste of energy and fuel needed to heat the outdoors...

some people wont be happy until warm breezes blow all the time..in the winter...
Let's hope the summers don't get too hot... otherwise we'll hear people complaining about how hot it is and we'll need to start using outdoor air conditioning.

reply to post by Extralien

I completely understand your point. However, I certainly prefer a smoke free indoor environment over the emissions of a patio heater any day. I live in a state with an indoor smoking ban and it is great. I can now eat out with my wife and kids and not have to worry about the nasty toxin filled smoke drifting across the imaginary no smoking boundary. My clothes don't stink and I can actually taste my food instead of tasting some guys Marlboros.

If you want to ditch the heaters that's ok. Maybe freezing out the smokers will get them to quit.

Originally posted by Extralien
reply to post by jibeho

 

I have no intention of spoiling anyones fun, but mankind has managed for millions of years to be ble to eat outdoors all year round...and have fun too...

no one on this thread has convinced me thus far that this technology is needed.

You do realize that you're talking about Outdoor Heaters impacting...Global Warming, right...? Break that down and think about it for a second.

If these are electric heaters they will have no impact on "Global Warming" as they produce no hazardous byproduct.

But really, think about what you're saying.

reply to post by DOcean


The heaters themselves may not produce anything to directly influence any possible affects of global warming, but the total power needed to keep them running and actually wasting the energy/heat into the environment is the issue.

1kW, 1.5kW and 2kW power options

www.ciggybins.co.uk...

now i'm no electrics expert, but the cost involved to run these things must be a lot in compariosn to a TV or a kettle, hence the power consumption demand by these things, which are often on for hours at a time, must make quite an impact on anyones electricity bill.

warming people and objects and not the air in between and will not blow away like all other forms of outdoor heaters.

Quartz heating is low cost and highly economical with all are outdoor heaters competitively priced. Running costs are calculable in advance and are lower than other alternatives as nearly all of the electrical power is converted into heat, offering savings of over 30% compared to other fuels. The use of variable controllers can reduce operating costs further by offering savings of up to 70%.

www.ciggybins.co.uk...

i'd love to know who wrote that. Please note my bold emphasis on the obvious missuse of the word 'are' instead of the correct word 'our'.
Of course the majority of the electric will be converted to heat..it's a heater..that's what it does.. it heats..
Variable controllers, like an on and off button i guess????

Oh and the heat wont blow away, apparently... if there are any scientists online...could they please explain exactly what heat is, how it is transferred and what happens to it in a colder environment...

Hot air balloon ride anyone????

Put me down as being another 'fun crusher'.

I live just outside a city in Northern England that's not exactly known for good weather and I think they are a terrible idea. They're a testament to man's arrogance in my opinion: "hey, watch me try and heat the sky!"

When I was a kid, I remember reading a folk story about a some man trying to use something like a bottle or a box as a pillow, but it was (obviously) too hard for his head. To solve this problem he tried filling it with feathers to make it softer. Outdoor heaters kind of remind me of that story.

If someone wants to nip out for a quick smoke, then they're really not going to be out too long to warrant having these things on for hours on end - and the bulk of that heat rising into the sky for all that time. If you're so desperate with smoking you've got to sit out for an hour or so in a beer garden, either buy a bloody coat or get some help to give up smoking.