SCOTUS petitioned for writ certiorari in Obama citizenship case, Obama to respond by Dec 1

Straight from the Source of this Political News shows it as little mOar than Political Views... Opinions.

therightperspective.com...
If The Supreme Court Decides...?

At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter's Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.

If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.

"I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate," says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. "They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect."

*bold emphasis mine

Read through the above carefully. At no point do the claims and or assertions being made amount to anything more then conjecture, political perspectives and or individual opinion(s).


In all honesty, I have no dog in the fight per se, nor any vested or veiled interest either way. I guess it's just the oft and ill-mannered representations that chap my backside. This particular thread/title seeming just that... as the SCOTUS hasn't officially requested or ruled on Any aspect of Berg's "case".

... not that they won't or can't, they just haven't at this time.

headline News though, if only it were... as "claimed".

Originally posted by jam321
SCOTUS website mentions nothing.

I don't think this is true unless website hasn't been updated.

Jam it does mention it they posted it over at free republic, but hey that don't mean nothing.

I personally don't think it matters if he was born here or not.
It doesn't change his ability to lead.
And it's not like if he was born in Kenya that that means he was there for a long time, no, he grew up in America so he is an American at heart.
I don't understand why anyone would be so worried "Oh, is he legal??"
It has nothing to do with if he's legal.
It has to do with if he can LEAD, and I believe he can.

Well if he is not born in the USA and gets to serve then Arnold should also. The Terminator for president in 2012.

Originally posted by Simulacra
beforetime,

Take heed to the ATS motto: Deny Ignorance

Here, I'll even help you...

Obama's Birth Certificate Verified By State - www.kitv.com...

Obama's Birth Certificate - www.dailykos.com...

Born in the U.S.A. - The truth about Obama's birth certificate. - www.newsweek.com...

However you can still try to create a 'otherness' within President elect-Obama, a tactic that failed horribly for the GOP.

Might you try to read and comprehend facts a little more closely? The story from KITV in Hawaii involves the fact that the Director of the State Department of Health, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, confirmed that she was "sitting on" the "Authentic" Birth Certificate of Obama. However, she NEVER stated what was in fact on the Certificate, or how it compared to the already released Web-Version of Obama's Birth Certificate. She also stated that it could not, nor would not be released unless Obama himself requested it to be. Yet, he ALREADY released his Birth Certificate on the Web, and if that is in fact an Authentic representation of his actual Birth Certificate, then arguably he already granted permission for its release.

As for "DailyKos" and "Newsweek", those are both extremely liberal groups which have been in Obama's back pocket since day one. They both make MSNBC look decent.

As of yet, Obama has still failed to release the Vaulted Copy of his Birth Certificate, which is the action upon which many questions are raised. No Defendant in their right mind would intentionally withhold exonerating evidence, even more so when the admission of such would lead to a dropping of all charges and allegations immediately.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Would McCain be president or would Bush get to stay in and we have another election ?

No, I think the most likely scenario IF Obama were deemed unfit to be President, (which is not going to happen btw, do people really, really think no one checked ahead of time knowing all the hype about this issue?) by birth is that the Vice President would become President. Thats what would happen if any other event caused his inability to fulfill the role of President. Why would this be any different?

Edit to add;

Why isnt McCain's birth in question?

www.nytimes.com...

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

Originally posted by DraconianKing
You republicans really are like deranged psychopathic stalkers, get rejected and it just makes you even more insane. Obama isn't going anywhere, you better just get used to it. His birth certificate has been verified, it's over, stop living in denial and face reality.

All that name calling, I smell fear!! Relax. If you were so sure you wouldn't be so defensive.

So thats the plan.. Obama already knows hes going to have to give up the election, this whole thing was a farce from the get go to get people so utterly hooked on this charismatic man. He wont be able to prove his American heritage or he will be "caught" with forged documents, his presidency will be voided, mcain steps in by default, riots ensue in all major cities before the swearing in of mcain. Bushy will then declare Marshall law to quell the riots, bills and measure will be passed in all the fog. And then obama will be "assassinated" by "terrorists" Maybe from iran.

Originally posted by difsjf
I personally don't think it matters if he was born here or not.
It doesn't change his ability to lead.
And it's not like if he was born in Kenya that that means he was there for a long time, no, he grew up in America so he is an American at heart.
I don't understand why anyone would be so worried "Oh, is he legal??"
It has nothing to do with if he's legal.
It has to do with if he can LEAD, and I believe he can.

Because it is STRICTLY written as such in the United States Constitution. Maybe through your loose interpretation, we can also bend the rules about the Fourth Amendment, and allow for our Personal Property to be searched based upon foundless rumors and "Gut Feelings". Or how about we loosen our Voting Requirements, because even a Politically Well Informed Illegal Alien can assist us in choosing our Leaders and Representatives, correct? Maybe we can "Bend the Silly Rules" in regards to the 22nd Amendment, and allow Presidents to run for and hold their Office for life-long terms? Let us meander the structuring of the Sixth Amendment, and renege on the concept of a "Speedy Trial", shall we not?

Do you see what a Philosophy such as yours leads towards?

I find it interesting that for so many that believe America should return to its roots, obey the constitution are not concerned that there is no US agency that verify that these individuals running for President are really US citizens. Shouldn't be so hard since the government is actually in possession of birth certificates.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
No Defendant in their right mind would intentionally withhold exonerating evidence, even more so when the admission of such would lead to a dropping of all charges and allegations immediately.

This is what I don't understand. Why doesn't Obama just give permission for the release of this birth certificate? It would put an end to all of this. It's just not logical. What reason could he have for not doing this? Sometimes a person will ignore an accusation so as not to give it credence. Is that what he is doing?

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
No, I think the most likely scenario IF Obama were deemed unfit to be President, (which is not going to happen btw, do people really, really think no one checked ahead of time knowing all the hype about this issue?) by birth is that the Vice President would become President. Thats what would happen if any other event caused his inability to fulfill the role of President. Why would this be any different?

Edit to add;

Why isnt McCain's birth in question?

www.nytimes.com...

Almost since those words were written in 1787 with scant explanation, their precise meaning has been the stuff of confusion, law school review articles, whisper campaigns and civics class debates over whether only those delivered on American soil can be truly natural born. To date, no American to take the presidential oath has had an official birthplace outside the 50 states.

“There are powerful arguments that Senator McCain or anyone else in this position is constitutionally qualified, but there is certainly no precedent,” said Sarah H. Duggin, an associate professor of law at Catholic University who has studied the issue extensively. “It is not a slam-dunk situation.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

McCain's eligibility was questioned, but since he was born on a military installation to US citizens most say he qualifies as a natural-born citizen. As it says in the article you linked.

As for who the presidency would go to if Obama is deemed ineligible, wouldn't his ineligibility make the election null and void? I would think that it would either go to McCain by default or a new election would have to be held with a different Democrat on the ticket. Not too sure though..

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Mcains was...he gave it to them to see lol

he was born from a military family
www.coxwashington.com...

The presumptive Republican nominee was born on Aug. 29, 1936 — not within the 50 United States, but in the Panama Canal Zone, where his father, a Navy officer, was stationed.

en.wikipedia.org...

John McCain, who ran for the Republican party nomination in 2000 and was the Republican nominee in 2008, was born at the Coco Solo U.S. military base in the Panama Canal Zone to U.S. parents. Although the Panama Canal Zone was not considered to be part of the United States,[5] federal law states: "Any person born in the Canal Zone on or after February 26, 1904, and whether before or after the effective date of this chapter, whose father or mother or both at the time of the birth of such person was or is a citizen of the United States, is declared to be a citizen of the United States."[6]

Mcain is legal already proved..

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
The most likely scenario IF Obama were deemed unfit to be President, is that the Vice President would become President.

Precisely correct.

The constitution of the USA actually has a clause that describes exactly what would happen if Obama was found ineligible to execute the office of the President:

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office the Same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

In the case of Obama (as unlikely as I think it may be) it seems that Congress must agree that the President is unable to discharge his duties. and can remove this disability if it so chooses to.

Now -- how likely do you think it will be that the Congress will find Obama unable? Especially since it is the Congress who is the one who defines what "natural born" means? And Congress is mainly populated by Democrats, of Obama's party?

#

Worst case senario, Congress will rewrite the law to make an exception for Obama, or a general exception explaining "natural born" requires the mother to be a US citizen, period. That is what I personally think "natural born" should mean anyway (rather than being born on US soil.)

Most people will regard this as a mean and meaningless attack on Obama, if it happens. And I don't think it will happen.

But if it does, then this thread has been a true revelation and truly prophetic, and all my time at ATS has been well spent!

reply to post by beforetime


Yes, I knew that part. The legal question that has not been challenged is whether or not anyone born on foreign soil meets the requirements of a "natural born citizen."

He is unquestionably a citizen. However no President to date has been born on foreign soil and so the matter has never been settled with finality.

Most legal scholars agree that he should be ok, but, as the article states, it is not a sure bet. Or as they phrase it, a "slam dunk" case. Because "natural born" was not defined in the Constitution, it is not as open and shut as you seem to be making it sound.

I do think, personally, that it would be decided in his favor, but it just strikes me odd that so many are making such a big deal out of Obama when McCain is not a sure bet either.

a "Certification of Live Birth," or COLB is what Hawaii's Department of Health now issues in place of actual photocopies of the original, long-form birth certificate. The COLB is a "short form birth certificate," and when duly certified by them, can be used for all intents and purposes that a regular birth certificate would be used.

Both sides are correct in their own ways. A certification of live birth is NOT a birth certificate. Everyone that claims Obama has shown his birth certificate is wrong. However, it is a legal document that can be used in place of the birth certificate. If this story is true, the courts are ordering him to show his real long form birth certificate.

Originally posted by TheAgentNineteen
As of yet, Obama has still failed to release the Vaulted Copy of his Birth Certificate, which is the action upon which many questions are raised.

HONOLULU -- The state's Department of Health director on Friday released a statement verifying the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama birth certificate.
www.kitv.com...

What else is there to prove? How are you going to spin this to your bias intention?

You would think that the GOPs attempt to attach an 'otherness' or quasi-mccarthyism to Obama would stop with its horribly failed attempt this election season.

Ah well, luckily America is filled with people, just like yourself, that encourage ignorance and spread falsehood and doubt.

As I am not an American and don't know all the facts on this maybe someone can enlighten me/

I am assuming his mother is American and father kenyan

If he was born in Kenya, how long was he there?

why were his parents there at that time, were they living in America and then went to kenya for a short time, during which time he was born

is some one who emigrates to the USA applies for and is granted citizenship barred from running for any type of office, or if they are is it only the presidency?

[edit on 9/11/2008 by whoswatchinwho]

Why does Mr. Berg write about himself in the third person? It's his site, was he interviewing himself?

Anyway, look forward to seeing all of this come to a close.

This is irrelevant. Its not like the illuminati doesn't control one of them.