Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

Depending on what bible you're reading this passage is different.

The Message

Moses, Eleazar, and all the leaders of the congregation went to meet the returning army outside the camp. Moses was furious with the army officers—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—as they came back from the battlefield: "What's this! You've let these women live! They're the ones who, under Balaam's direction, seduced the People of Israel away from God in that mess at Peor, causing the plague that hit God's people. Finish your job: kill all the boys. Kill every woman who has slept with a man. The younger women who are virgins you can keep alive for yourselves.

New Century

Kill all the Midianite boys, and kill all the Midianite women who have had sexual relations.18 But save for yourselves the girls who have not had sexual relations with a man.

But honestly you've taken this whole thing out of context.
www.biblegateway.com...

Also you must remember the god of the Old Testament as Compared to the New Testament. Is a vengeful, and often times pretty jealous. =p

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by The Stand
...as to think god is telling these people to do what I think he is. For example, what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18 “now kill all the boys and all the women who have had sexual intercourse. Only the little girls may live; you may keep them for yourselves.”

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

No wonder you can't understand it. Apparently, you need to work on your reading comprehension skills.

Who was it again that is saying that? (Here's a hint: It's not God.)

Well then since you know all and everyone who does not is ignorant, who was it and please show us how smart you are, I do not want to get the wrong ideal about you.

[edit on 9-11-2008 by The Stand]

The Stand:
Please tell me this bible verse does not mean what I think it does!

Ok.

"This Bible verse does not mean what you think it does."

Ask and ye shall receive.

what does this verse mean? Numbers 31:17-18

Read all of Numbers 31 and it will be more clear. Basically Moses is commanding his people to go and completely genocide the Midianites. The "little girl" line is a simplified translation. Try this:

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him,
keep alive for yourselves.

The point isn't keeping "little girls" the point is to kill all women who have ever had sex. As in...any woman who has any possibility of being pregnant by a Midianite man. This effectively performs complete genocide of the Midianites, but allows Moses and company to keep the virgins as war booty without any risk of them giving birth to any pureblooded Midianites.

reply to post by djpaec
Thank you for the link but I did not take it out of context. I simply took it out of the bible and asked what it meant.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


Maybe not God speaking the words directly, but it was a command from Moses, who was following the commands of God to do precicely what he commanded the Israelites to do.

Read the context better.


To the OP.. Yes, the verse means precisely what it says, and there are quite a few more in the bible which say similar, and even more horrid, things

How about ripping the babies from the mothers wombs and dashing them against the rocks in front of their fathers? Sure, there's the love of God for ya


The new testament can break down to "Suffer the little children". The old? "Suffer, little children!"

reply to post by Jomina


... and Jesus endorsed it all

Originally posted by djpaec

But honestly you've taken this whole thing out of context.
www.biblegateway.com...

Also you must remember the god of the Old Testament as Compared to the New Testament. Is a vengeful, and often times pretty jealous. =p

2 problems I have with this. First one is, I just knew someone would start talking about contexts. But what other context is needed? It is the killing of other beings, and the taking of virgin girls, to be forced into either slavery, or at the very best forced marriages and "uses".

There's no justification for that kind of thing, ever, under any circumstances, and anyone who claims there is, quite frankly, should have their motives questioned at the outset.

The second issue I have with what you said is, according to the bible itself, GOD IS UNCHANGING, or he WOULD NOT be god. his nature is the same always and forever, and that means that all the things that applied to the old, applies to the new, REGARDLESS of a stand in through Jesus.

That means that according to the god of the bible, there is still justification for all of the horrible acts of violence and personal misery and suffering that you see in the old testament. And people still find ways to do exactly that.


There's no context to it. If a country today were to do exactly what you see in that whole passage within Numbers, the entire world would cry out against that country for violations of human rights, atrocities of war, and all that jazz that goes with it.


Just because it took place 3500 years ago does not make it any more right or wrong than it does now. I would have hoped we'd be able to actually learn a thing or two since then.

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by Jomina

 

... and Jesus endorsed it all

Precicely. People try to claim that Jesus changed things, but if you read what He had to say, he said he did not come to break the law, but to fulfil it. He never condemned the actions that he saw in the scriptures, he said that the scriptures can never be broken.

That includes all the genocidal insanity that had been committed, animal sacrifices, HUMAN sacrifices, and all the other craziness that goes with it all.

It's just plain nuts, man

How can you blame the old testament on the teachings of Jesus? If the old testament was having the right effect on things, then Jesus wouldn't have needed to come here would he have?

The simply fact that Jesus had to come and clarify most of it, and the fact that the powers of the time had taken over the religion and created an authority - in the name of god is telling enough I think.

Jesus was killed by the people who followed the old testament. And yet you are going to group him up with those teachings?

Things in the old testament are even more manipulated than the new testament.

Eye for an Eye and Judge not yeast you be judged is in many ways saying the same thing. You reap what you sow. However, the people of the old testament misunderstood(or were manipulated) into thinking it was their right and duty to poke out the other eye. And jesus came along and said - let him without sin cast the first stone.

Jesus was completely against what the institutions were doing in the name of god at the time.

Matthew 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.

Is there some memo going around trying to pigeon hole people who follow the new testament into the old testament?

Originally posted by badmedia
How can you blame the old testament on the teachings of Jesus?

Quite simply, we aren't.

some of yall of desperately confused. for those of you that THINK yall cantranslate what the bible is saying. how do you know? all of you think its negative and that God is telling you to do this or do that. stop thinking you know what ur talkin about and go to a good church. not all religions are bad and certainly not all of them are designed with an alterior motive. (such as your all religions are designed to manipulate the world and control people) go to a good church or get a clue or somthing.

it just doesnt make any sense that some people only have negative things to say about things and it gets tiring.

reply to post by Bean328


We aren't talking about religion(s), we are talking about what the bible says.

Part of the problem from what I have read is people are interpreting the scripture to mean what they think it means. Scripture has been taken completely out of context. Sorry to mention it but it is vital in understanding God's Word which is not only the Bible but the Truth. Only Scripture can interpret scripture. Meaning you must read before and after a certain scripture to understand it's meaning.

God made the Law and Jesus came to fufill it. Before Jesus came people would offer an animal to God to atone for their sins. God wanted to send His one and only Son Jesus to
earth to pay the ultimate debt
For All of mankinds sin so you and I wouldn't have to. He wanted a sacrifice that would be eternal.

So Jesus was crucified, dead and buried. He descended into Hell, came back to earth and ascended into Heaven. This is known as the resurrection. Anyone who believes Jesus died for their sins and puts their faith in Him, receives the free gift of life eternal with God.that is called salvation. When a person becomes saved the Holy Spirit comes to dwell in them.
God gives wisdom to those who believe and ASK. He reveals who He is through the Holy Spirit.which is Truth.

You should ask God to reveal
Himself to you and believe he will each and every time you read His word I.e. The Bible
and He will. This is the only
Way to understand who He is and who you are in Him.

Remember, All men are sinners each and everyone of us but anyone who believes on Jesus is forgiven and has received the gift of life. This is also known as grace because we all surely deserve death.

A:

Originally posted by paxnatus
Part of the problem from what I have read is people are interpreting the scripture to mean what they think it means.

B:

God's Word which is not only the Bible but the Truth.

HOLY HELL!! Those are some double standards!

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by Good Wolf
reply to post by The Stand

 

This is what happens when God "inspires" books instead of writing them himself, people put their own spin on things and those 'spins' contain some pretty nasty things at times. This is why you can't really take the bible very seriously.

The bible's gospel is a must for being yet published across the world. How else can ppl of different languages read it? It is meant for each in each language. So whatever mistakes or etc. or misfollowings is how it is meant for the particular person in a particular language inside a region. It is done like seeds which fall. Read the seed and sower parable. So which version you can read is indeed meant just so like so for you.

"Matt 24:14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Mark 13:10And the gospel must first be published among all nations."

^^Just the Gospel? The misfollowing is proof we all aren't tools. You which are yet scared will follow the so-called Word to the T. But if you do, then you didnt pass the test concerning bypassing fear. Adam bypassed fear (An Authority's Word/Law/Command) through his help met Eve. If ppl did follow Jesus with fear they would not dare read any other books outside the gospels. Basically we wouldnt even be yet reading Revelation if it werent for ppl who fear not.

reply to post by Mabus


That doesn't have much to with the fact that the bible is writen by bronze-age man so is incredibly unreliable. Apart from that you post is pretty nonsensical.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

A:

Originally posted by paxnatus
Part of the problem from what I have read is people are interpreting the scripture to mean what they think it means.

B:

God's Word which is not only the Bible but the Truth.

HOLY HELL!! Those are some double standards!

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

No it's not. what I am saying is the scripture that is being asked about was taken out of context. The OP did not take time to read the scriptures before or after the verse in question which changed the meaning of the scripture.

God's Word is the Truth. I didn't say so He did. Ask anyone who knows Christ, not only in an intellectual way but knows Him in their heart. They will tell you the Holy Spirit is the truth and must be present for you to have a personal relationship with God the father.

It does not matter to me if you believe me or not. I know the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and you cannot know Him without the Holy Spirit to reveal to you who God is. He has left his word to reveal to everyone on earth the Truth. Some will receive it, others will not.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

Originally posted by paxnatus
what I am saying is the scripture that is being asked about was taken out of context. The OP did not take time to read the scriptures before or after the verse in question which changed the meaning of the scripture.

I very much doubt that this is the first time that the OP has read it, also I imagine since he read it, he has read up to it aswell. The chances of him just opening the book and picking a random piece of scripture mid-chapter.

God's Word is the Truth. I didn't say so He did.

No, the bible said that, not God. They are not the same thing, unless of course you can't distinguish between doctrine from deity - in which case you should seek psychological help

Lord Jesus Christ

Hate to be a grammar Nazi but that's actually 'Christ Jesus' not the other way around.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

Bait eh? Well all I can say is that I made that decision, several times, I was like you once, but not anymore.

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

Originally posted by paxnatus

No it's not. what I am saying is the scripture that is being asked about was taken out of context. The OP did not take time to read the scriptures before or after the verse in question which changed the meaning of the scripture.

God's Word is the Truth. I didn't say so He did. Ask anyone who knows Christ, not only in an intellectual way but knows Him in their heart. They will tell you the Holy Spirit is the truth and must be present for you to have a personal relationship with God the father.

It does not matter to me if you believe me or not. I know the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal Savior and you cannot know Him without the Holy Spirit to reveal to you who God is. He has left his word to reveal to everyone on earth the Truth. Some will receive it, others will not.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

You said "Gods word is the truth." I assume you mean contained in the pages of the bible... and yet, what sort of truth is it?

If it is THE TRUTH, which can only be ONE TRUTH.. .then how can there be 34000+ different christian denominations?



First of all, I said exactly that this would happen. People would start coming in here and hollering "Context" about that verse. But quite frankly, as I said above, there IS NO CONTEXT for it to be taken out of. Where is the context?

The Israelites were commanded to massacre the Medianites, destroying them utterly. Every man, woman and child. Genocide of an entire nation.

Context? What more context do you need? What, with all logic and the "love of god' could ever justify such an act? If such an atrocity took place today, here and now, the nation that did so would be condemned for their crimes against humanity.

And yet, since it is in the bible and was justified by "gods command", no one bats an eye. Well I am batting.

Then the verse in particular being discussed. Again, justify to me, context or not, where the taking of the virgin women, to be kept for the people of israel "for themselves" is justified.

You have a huge number of women, most of them still children (in one translation it says girls, in others it says "women children".. no context there, my friend), who have just watched their fathers, brothers, mothers, friends, all of their nation murdered by these people, and are now taken captive. They are led off to be either slaves, concubines, or forced into marriage, all of it being pressed upon them by the very hands that murdered everyone they knew.

Are you going to sit there and try to "righteously justify" such an act? And to do it so frivolously and offhandedly as saying, "Oh, you're not seeing the CONTEXT!"


And then comes the part of making everyone feel guilty for even questioning such things, and tossing out the fact that we are all sinners in the hands of an angry God and need to come to Jesus.


I was a Christian for many years, even to the point of studying to be a pastor. But I could not, upon seeing a great amount of things that are sitting in that book, justify to myself following such a thing anymore. I just could not, in good conscience, do it. I prayed, my friend, to the point of blood, to have god let me see past these things and to fit back into the fold.

Do you know what answer I recieved? Being shown even more within the pages, to push me further away from what was written there.


A long period of night passed for me, but I am now finally back into the day, and into the light of a much clearer and better understanding of who and what God is, and even who Jesus was/is. And I am eternally grateful for it.

But I will tell ya, it was not found in that book of horrors, surrounded by marshmallow goodness to hide the dirt. Some of the truth is there, yes... but just like every religion out there, none have the full story, and none ever will.

Because God is much higher, and much bigger, than any one book could ever contain.

Originally posted by Good Wolf

Originally posted by paxnatus

Lord Jesus Christ

Hate to be a grammar Nazi but that's actually 'Christ Jesus' not the other way around.

God gave man free will. Ultimately, the choice is yours. Will you choose Life?

Bait eh? Well all I can say is that I made that decision, several times, I was like you once, but not anymore.

[edit on 11/9/2008 by Good Wolf]

Just had to say, even that isn't correct. It's actually Yahshua, his name never was Jesus lol


As to the free will thing.. Ya know, I just really have to get this off my chest. It will probably be ignored just like everything else I've had to say but...

That free will argument is one that i am especially rankled on. Let me explain why.

Let's say, for example, a woman is being held at gunpoint and threatened with rape, and if she does not give in to her attacker, she will be killed by the gun. It is held to her head, and he is deadly serious.

Does she, under any sort of justice, have any free will in this situation? No, she does not. To either accept or die is NOT FREE WILL. It is threat and torture, done at the hands of a sick person. And we can ALL agree on that, can we not?

And yet, apply this same logic to God. Supposedly creates us with free will. Supposed to be the best gift he gave us, to hear a lot of preachers talk it up. He created us for the purpose of having a creature who would love him out of choice, out of their own free will, instead of being compelled to do so.

on the surface, sounds fine and idyllic. And then you get to the meat of it. You accept his terms, accept the salvation of this son who he killed, as a sacrifice for us. If we don't? We are sent to eternal damnation by hellfire, to be tortured for billions and billions of unending years.

Is that free will? Look at the example above.. a woman being held at gunpoint, to do or be killed. That is obviously not free will. And at the same token, we have God, sending us a savior, and is holding us at gunpoint, to do or be "killed" in eternal hellfire and damnation.

That is in no way free will, and it is a travesty of the so-called perfect, loving, JUST, and merciful God, that Christians try to display him to be.


I'll leave it at that. I won't get into my personal viewpoints on what I have found God to be. I just had to point that out, because people try to justify these things, and you can see it in this thread. A counterbalance really needs to be spoken, through reason and logic.