Mandatory Marriage - Why Not?

OK, I would probably be considered by most as a conservative. I have two children, and am definitely a breeder (hetero). Divorced, but so what?

I say this to lay out my personal parameters on my question to the board: why should gays not be allowed to be legally married?

I have heard both sides of this argument, and will say that I have not heard one single convincing argument that would support denying legality to same-sex marriages.

The closest argument that I have heard against same-sex marriages has been that the primary reason for marriage is procreation of the species. But even this argument falls apart: in certain segments of our society, the out-of-wedlock birthrate approaches 70%, which means that we're spilling our seeds and not staying around to tend the garden.

So, I propose that we hold those people to their word. I propose the concept of MANDATORY MARRIAGE for relationships that produce offspring. If you make a baby, you get married. If you're already married and make a baby, you pay a heavy fine. Do it again, you get jail time.

I know that the arguments against this will have to do with money, overcrowded jails, etc. Forget about those arguments. I want to know who will support MANDATORY MARRIAGE and it's consequences in PRINCIPLE.

Ten years ago I would probably have been against same-sex marriage. Today, I say that it should be legal between two consenting adults, with due concern for bloodlines i.e., you can't marry your sister or whatever. So, given that definition,why not? Gays are human beings; that should be reason enough to be able to be happy and married to one's choice of partners. To choose otherwise is to say that gays are less of a human being than you.

BTW, arguments for denying same-sex marriages are welcome, but I've heard them all, and none hold water, at least IMO.

john

Umm, yeah...

That would suck. Arse.

Mandatory marriage is a ridiculous and stupid idea. If something like that was pulled you can bet there would be a massive outrage. Why do you like the idea of this?

Thats not a bad idea. It would certainly make the dumb bubba-type neanderthal who 'shag and run' think twice.

So, I propose that we hold those people to their word. I propose the concept of MANDATORY MARRIAGE for relationships that produce offspring. If you make a baby, you get married. If you're already married and make a baby, you pay a heavy fine. Do it again, you get jail time.

Wait, I have a question. I'm confused... Did you mean that people who have babies after they're married will be fined or jailed? Because that's the most foolish thing I've ever heard. Hopefully I'm wrong, because it's late, and I really hope you don't mean that. Because you're saying that people should only have babies out of wedlock, and that married couples should not have babies. I hope I'm not the only one who sees the idiocy in that idea...

Otherwise... Mandatory marriage sounds ok, but there are variables you must consider. What about teenagers who have babies, who aren't old enough to deal with marriage/family life/etc/etc. I'm talking stupid 13-15 year old girls who decide to go out and get knocked up. I think you need to be 18 to get married for a reason.

Also, what about babies that come about from rape? A rape victim from a teenager to old woman could produce a baby. Does that mean she's required to get married to her rapist?

Your theory sounds all good and well, but I don't think it'd work. If implemented, I think it would actually be a good idea, but there'd have to be many variables looked at before implementing such an idea.

This is a great idea...FOR ME TO POOP ON!

Mandatory marriage would be damn near impossible to enforce.

if i knock up sally joe, and then i go and knock up betty sue, they have every right to demand child suport, and to take me to court if i dont pay. but i shouldn't have to marry them.

and when little luann gets raped by harry from brooklyn, and it turns out shes pregnant, lets force little luann to marry him. and then maybe we can throw the burden of her psychiatrist bills on the taxpayers. that sounds like a freakin plan to me!

why tie down the courts with something as stupid as marriage anyways. let them enforce child support payments, divorces, etc. but to try and fine, and jail, any guy who does what is really an instinct- mate to further life in the tribe- would be a drain on Police, Judiciary, and Correctional Institutions.

'Nuff said.

as for gay marriage, i'm all for it. homosexuals are people too, and they should be given the same rights as anyone else. try banning marriages for another portion of society- lets say hispanics- and you'll see the repercussions almost instantly. Only because it would be a union between two persons of the same sex, which is still a taboo in our society, is gay marriage not going to be allowed- because it would offend more people than it would please. which IMHO is Bull #.

Faisca

I really need to work on my delivery, if you're that confused.

I propose MM for those who are not married to each other, and make a baby. Fines and jail time are for those who refuse to get married or for repeat offenders.

Rapists should of course be punished with jail time, not the blessing of marriage. This topic doesn't address pro-life or pro-choice, but rape is a pretty good argument for pro-choice, IMO.

EliteXiser:

Why do I like the idea? I like it because I think, as rdiculous as it sounds, it is a counter-point to those who advocate marriage for pro-creation of the species. OK, I'll give them that, but then I say, put your money where your mouth is.

My main point here is to use what sounds like a ridiculous idea to knock down opposition to same-sex marriage. It also serves to hold people responsible for their actions; we have too many kids being raised on the street or by single mothers. These kids are doomed to failure before they start. They've never even known their fathers; he's out there busy knocking up another woman.

People want to use making babies as the main purpose of marriage. But they don't want to have to be married to make babies. Sounds very self-serving and contradictory to me.

john

it's quite clear- you say that jail and fines would be imposed for those who father a child, and do not marry the mother. I say that if i go and father a child with four different women, on four consecutive nights, and nine months later it can be proven that i am the father, which one am i going to marry? do i get fined in place of paying child support? do i go to jail if i dont pay my fine? it makes more sense, especially when it comes to supporting the child financially, to force me to pay child support to each child weekly or monthly, not put me in jail, where i become useless financially to the child.

if i don't pay child support, that is when the courts need to get involved.

and it sets a double standard by forcing fathers to marry a childs mother if they have consensual sex and then the mother gives birth, but you let the mother who is raped and has a child, have the baby and remain a single mother, while the rapist is in jail, and it would be absolutely stupid to force the mother to have any contact with the rapist after the incident, so she is not subject to the idea of mandatory marriage.

what you propose makes no sense, IMO.

Bobbo

I'm glad to see that someone gets my point. The idea sounds unworkable, and in all honesty is unworkable, but the point was to make people think. About their prejudices, about their actions, and their responsibilities.

One point I want to make, though, which will further inflame people....the fines and jail time swing BOTH ways, because it takes two to tango. Fems don't get a pass because they happen to be cute.
Oh, BTW, I just read your next post. No, you get to pay child support, don't worry. After you get out of jail. As to which one you marry, well, probably the first one you knocked up.

john



[Edited on 31-3-2004 by jsobecky]

you have absolutely got me thinking- I'm all fired up sitting here watching "pulp fiction".

it would also be entirely impossible to impose any type of jail time on the mother, because who would take care of the baby? this would require double the number of resources needed in prison, or a hell of a lot of foster parents.

Thanks for firing me up at 2 am- now i'll never get to sleep

More laws for people to break? What would be the point? Sorry, but some people should not breed muchless get married. Marriage is bull#...

As for the single mother debate, I'm 15 with a single mother, and I'm doing my 5 Alevels a year early, and predicted to get straight A's (and get into Oxford) .
And I totally agree with the gay marriage, they should be allowed to do what they want, we're in a Western society, we're supposed to now have freedom of choice as well as speech. (Which is why madatory marriage is a ludicrious idea, what if two people dated for a while, then split up, the woman finds out she's up the duff but they don't want to get back together?)

LadyCool21

Good for you. You're the exception, and will succeed. For every one of you, tho, there are 7 kids who won't make it past their teen years without some type of major catastrophe falling upon them; drugs, gangs, pregnancy, poverty, undereducation. And the sad fact is that your generation will be left paying the biggest price to deal with it.

This is our biggest failure as a society, the type of life we've given to so many of our children. People want more welfare, less welfare, more government, less government, to address problems which we ourselves have created. Then politicians get involved, and Mud Pits rise up as a result because people want answers. The answers are within us, not within some governmental agency.

I'm glad that you are for same-sex marriage. Many gays that I know can teach all of us a thing or to about caring and responsiblity. I think that a kid raised by two loving parents will thrive regardless of the parents gender. As I said, gays are human and to deny them the benefits of marriage is less than human, IMO.


That was the point of my post: to make people think about prejudices, responsibilities, and consequences of their actions.

john

(Which is why madatory marriage is a ludicrious idea, what if two people dated for a while, then split up, the woman finds out she's up the duff but they don't want to get back together?)

And this is why people should use birth control to the extreme. Although one device may still have a certain rate of failure. You can never be to sure, so in turn use a condom, birth control pills, ru487, etc. I understand that it's taking it kind of far taking so many precautions, but unless you're looking at being abstinent till marriage, good luck. I suppose you can argue birth control and religion, but that's a different topic at a different time. As for the issue of Mandatory Marriage, I can agree with it somewhat, alot of issues would have to be taken care of first. One of the reasons why I like this idea, is the fact that not one person is getting punished, but both. Don't procreate if you're not ready to handle the consequences.

completly outrageous. i don't think that if you knock someone up that you should have to marry them, marriage is for two adults that LOVE eachother. key word LOVE. i know thats not the case in all marriages, some marry for money or other reasons. but if there is a kid involved and the parents hate eachother, then they shouldn't get married by force. yeah, your worried about all the fatherless or motherless children, but what about all the children given up for adoption?!? they are parentless. or the kids whos parents both die, and are sent of to foster homes? what about the children that live with aunts uncles, grandparents etc..... i think that if you don't want children you should use birthcontrol, or just not have sex. Manditory Marriage imo is a stupid idea. there are laws inplace now, like child support, and such, to help out mothers/fathers, that need it. and if you don't pay support, you get it automatically deducted from your paycheckl, and if you find a way around that you go to jail. so there are ways for the single parent familes out there to get help. and there are alot of single parent families, that the children arn't doing well, and you can't pass the blame onto the missing parent. the first parent has something to do with it too. if the kid gets into drugs or whatever, its because the single parent wasn't doing a good enough job keeping an eye on their kid. this is a two way street. the only thing that can be blamed on the parent that dosn't stick around, is 'not sticking around to help out' the single parent now holds ALL responisbility for that child.

smilingsarah82

Marriage is for two adults that love each other. How about two women?

True that there are many kids put up for adoption. Try to find a healthy blue-eyed blonde baby with blonde hair to adopt. Then try to find a minority child to adopt. You know where you'll have the most luck.

What about the baby produced from the drunken one-night stand? Or the single mother with 5 kids by 5 different fathers. Or the single man with a half-dozen offspring?

Take the guy to court for child support. He makes $200/week. Split that up 5 ways - on paper, of course - because he'll probably never pay it anyway. How can you raise a kid on that?

You want to know what I find really disgusting? The Maury Povich Show. Today's topic, just like yesterday's and tomorrows, is "Are you my baby's Daddy?" Forget about taking these kids to task for their actions - let's put them on TV as VICTIMS.

My main point of this post was to shoot down opposition to gay marriage on the grounds that it's main purpose is pro-creation. Secondary, let's talk about how we're dumping our society in the toilet. What can we do about it, and forget having the government bail us out.

john

If you're already married and make a baby, you pay a heavy fine. Do it again, you get jail time.

You said if you're already married, which made me confused. But now I understand and it sounds a little better. But I still don't think it'll work.

jsobecky,
(the bold is my reply to your questions)

Originally posted by jsobecky

smilingsarah82
Marriage is for two adults that love each other. How about two women?
thats why i said ADULTS that love each other, if two women want to get married, why not. they can adopt a kid, if they really want kids.

True that there are many kids put up for adoption. Try to find a healthy blue-eyed blonde baby with blonde hair to adopt. Then try to find a minority child to adopt. You know where you'll have the most luck.
but your missing the point on this one here. your soooo worried about the kids not having ONE parent, i was making a statement about kids having NO parents. who cares if the kid is a blonde hair blue eyed or a minority, that dosn't matter, what matters is that they are parentless.

What about the baby produced from the drunken one-night stand? Or the single mother with 5 kids by 5 different fathers. Or the single man with a half-dozen offspring?
what about them? these people need to learn birthcontrol. yeah so the father dosn't give a flying * but its the mothers who are taking care of the child. like i said before it is a TWO way street. if the father runs out, then its solely up to the mother to raise the child (or the other way around) just because he ran out, dosn't mean that the child is going to grow up a thug. that has to do by the way the child was raised

Take the guy to court for child support. He makes $200/week. Split that up 5 ways - on paper, of course - because he'll probably never pay it anyway. How can you raise a kid on that?
you can't really, but so you think manditory marriage is better. yeah, lets force this guy to marry one of these five women, who has his children, which he dosn't love, and see what happens. he'll beat the kids or the wife, or neglect the children. i mean seriously if you were the wife, would you want to leave your kid home alone with this guy, that she was FORCED to marry?

You want to know what I find really disgusting? The Maury Povich Show. Today's topic, just like yesterday's and tomorrows, is "Are you my baby's Daddy?" Forget about taking these kids to task for their actions - let's put them on TV as VICTIMS.
who cares about the maury show, its only there for ratings, half the people on that show are people getting paid to say that. its not real life

My main point of this post was to shoot down opposition to gay marriage on the grounds that it's main purpose is pro-creation.
how can you say that its pro-creation. there are quite a few woman-woman couples that get inceminated (sp) or have a child, by having a male friend get them pregnant. or adopt a child. i can't speak for them, but they arn't pro-creation, they just have a different sexual preference
Secondary, let's talk about how we're dumping our society in the toilet. What can we do about it, and forget having the government bail us out.
this is completely off subject so im not gonna even go off on this right now

Originally posted by EliteXizer
Mandatory marriage is a ridiculous and stupid idea.

To play devil's advocate, most of us think of marriage for the sake of love, but in some places it is use to bind different families together in order to become stronger.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Divorced, but so what?

If you make a baby, you get married. If you're already married and make a baby, you pay a heavy fine. Do it again, you get jail time.

Here's my question. Why is a man who can't seem to honor his commitments coming out in favor of maniditory marriage?

You screwed it up and you want to force it on other people?

That is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time buddy.

Thanks