Payola: The criminal conspiracy against music

Interesting read guys. Im glad some professionals who know what they are talking about have chimed in here.

Clear Channel Radio Stations. Computer controlled radio entertainment for the masses. Thank God I live in an area with several quality college radio stations to listen to. Granted, I have to wait for the Polka hour to end first, but I love the brief 4 hour block of music that I hear every Sunday morning. All hail "Chasing Infinity" and the "Cream of Broccoli Radio Hour"

reply to post by cbass


Wow that station plays a lot of really good music! I'd probably spend time listening to it but I tend to just hit shuffle on the ol' iTunes and get the same basic result. I've been blessed with music-savvy friends!

Not to venture too far out of the topic of payola, but to address a earlier topic brought up in another posters post regarding the change from the old to the new in the record industries approach to how things are generally run.

A lot of the big labels are seriously looking at and have been for a few years now how the indie labels operate. these indie labels have had lots of big success on minimal budgets for production and marketing. these indie labels that are successful are usually manned with and have younger business men at the helm. this younger generation of industry leaders working for or running these indie labels understand how to market on the internet much better. they understand more fully that the industry along with many other due to the internet are fast becoming more of a niche market.

So these indie labels are often making serious dough even though the big wigs at the major labels can't seem to get their own ideas to work and generate any real money or profit. they think they understand how he indies are pulling this off but in reality they don't.

So after failed attempts by some of the big labels to emulate these successful indies they have now taken on a new strategy. Buy the indie label. leave the command structure and how it basically operates alone. let the indie do all the work, let the young guys pave the road. but let them also share in the back office help and from the resources of the major label. the major puts in a little dough and resources to help out. and they profit share with the indie label they now own. some major labels still can't resist trying to take charge and dictate down towards the newly acquired indie. and a lot tried this at first, but found that it didn't work and the endeavor failed. so now they are pretty much, as much as they can within reason, hands off towards the indie labels that they have bought or gone into partnership with.

the initial idea I guess was to back engineer the model that made the indies a success. now they are just slowly giving some of the reigns over to these indies.

As for the major labels. they are getting better with the promotion of younger guys into the higher up positions of the labels various departments. Warner bros. have got it right with promoting and supporting tim in their a&r dept. tim is a bright guy who gets it and for a long time was a respected associate of craig the sr vp over there. now tim is a full fledged a&r guy and is actually signing pretty good acts.

Alex over at island def jam is another A&R guy who actually gets it and I think will be doing great over the next few years. PS to the previous poster who is into metal. alex is a serious metal head. he got his start as a guitar tech, then street crew for marketing, then got into the a&r now co runs a indie label called stolen transmission with his boss rob (also another big guy in the a&R over at island) stolen transmission is one of those indie labels owned by a major but gets to operate more or less like a indie. thats the general direction the labels are going.

As to why metal is not as popular. i'll give my opinion in another post. but it's not really a answer that lends to conspiracies. follow the money. the labels are blindly in pursuit of money. They will make anything (literally anything weather its good or crap) if they think it will make them money. Personally I'd like to see metal come back or at least hard rock. terry date's presence in the rock scene is missed by guys like me who grew up listening to stuff he produced. And tom zutuat is a cool guy and should be back working in the big projects again. He did guns n roses etc...

axl rose. he's an ass. total freak. I got stories about him. don't care what he does wit the rest of his life. slash and those guys are cool though. gee i wonder why nobody talks to axl anymore.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by BASSPLYR]

This is so true.

I recently relocated to a small town in the middle of nowhere, and the local "modern rock" radio station here has played (this is not an exaggeration) the SAME FORTY FIVE SONGS for the past two years.

Every hour of broadcast time has no less than 20 minutes of commericals for local businesses.

The locals tolerate it, because it is all they have ever known.

I personally, can't stand it. Never been a fan of mainstream radio to begin with, but the stuff going out over the airwaves here is just reprehensible.

Paul Westerberg said it best.

"Left of the dial" it was true when that song first came out and even more relevant today.

Very good topic, S+F.

You hear a lot about this, especially in the Hip Hop scene. HOT97 in NYC and POWER106 in LA are notorious for this.

The record labels are out to push their artists based on marketability, not on talent. Sure, many of these artists have some level of talent, but it is quite common for them to be subpar when compared with the sea of underground artists out there. They look for the catchiest hook matched with the trendiest image and dump loads of cash into marketing them. Unfortunately, a very common form of marketing is via radio station payola. This is why you hear a bunch of crap on the radio/MTV/BET.

Mainstream bands/singers/rappers are generally not artists who create a product; they ARE the product.

It's a damn shame that you won't hear some artists on the radio because their image or lyrical content is not what the record labels are looking for. Music is an excellent form of expression and social commentary, but it has been lost to a wave of whack rappers making up goofy dances in attempts to grab the youth's wallets.

Thank god for the internet!

kawz1,

you hit the nail on the head. Everything in your post was right on.

I'm with you on the 105.9 "106" Power radio payola thing. the only time I don't hear the same 12 songs on that station is when its 12am of sunday. half of their best DJs went over to other stations because they were getting sick of how power operates.

if they dropped the price of a cd down to £3 - £4 more people would buy them.. but at £15 you have got to be joking.... for the life of me i cant figure out how boyszone and westlife made millions of covering other peoples songs

So what? It's nothing new. It has been going on for decades.

The music played on the radio is not for fans of music. It is for people who want music on in the background while they are at work.
So it really doesnt matter. Yeah its a scam. But who cares? None of that music matters.

Music radio is one giant advertisement. Go to shows if you want to discover music. Don't depend on some phony "DJ"

reply to post by BASSPLYR


Oh no! the majors don't have the budget to pay for musicans to lockout Sunset Sound for 6 months while they dick around trying to write.

I for one am GLAD the majors are going under. Thats what they get for not changing with the times, providing reasonably priced products and for paying insane money for promotion and studios.
The times have changed and the models that worked in the 70s are no longer relevant.

The best music is being made in a basement somewhere and being recorded in a small studio.


------------------------
On a side note, I'm sick of people always chiming in on these music threads saying how until the radio stations aren't corprate run there wont be any good music and how "kids" will see how it used to be, blah, blah.

This is one the best time ever for music. There are so many groups out there you have never heard of. They will never be on the radio or MTV. I hate to break it to you but after a certain age if your not living the music lifestyle..... then eventually your out of touch.

Want to hear good music? Instead of watching a sports game tonight go see a local band. There is probably tons of shows where you live and don't even know about them.

If you care enough to comment on the state of music and want to change whats wrong with it then go out and support your local scene.

reply to post by drock905


Are you actually suggesting that American Idol is bad for the music industry???
Clay Aiken is the best thing to happen to music in the last year or so.

Just kidding. Couldn't resist. I will say that Randy is pretty solid on the skins. I think he is the only musician of the lot.

Anyhoo.. Good points about supporting the local music scene. No jokes about Cleveland, but we have a pretty solid local scene here. We have some great venues and good support from several solid college radio stations.

Some of the best sounds that I have heard have come out of someone's basement or garage. I like raw music and do not prefer the highly polished tunes that come from state of the art studios. They could make me sound like a decent singer.

drock,

right on. they can't pay my clients but jack puig gets to have some lockout at ocean way for years on end. hoarding the ssl-j. spending most of his time kissing ron and tals rears and going to parties trying to get "scene" you know so that people know he's in the "scene" so to speak. And generally dicking around. Now he still has the lock out but he's a chair over at IGA. doing what? who knows. making all of rons products seem like cookie cutter crap. seriously jacks the reason why a good percentage of the stuff on the radio sounds all the same. cause it's his sound. he's working on every project. the hot guy at the labels. But whats the end result? and does he still dress like a 1980's 3rd world dictator while at these chair meetings. (picture the loony jacket that michael jackson wears everywhere type of dress)

I know what you mean about going out and supporting your local music venues. Part of what I do is keep tabs on literally every band in LA thats playing the small local venues. reporting to the higher ups who hot who's going to be likely to be signed soon. what A&R is showing up at the gigs. who's moving up in the venue world. Ie playing at "the dump" in march moved up to a fan base big enough to play at "the cool venue" by june- this band is developing traction keep an eye out on them. etc...

I hear lots of great imaginative bands doing this. I also get to hear a lot of crap. A LOT of crap. bands that are busy ripping off other bands. sounding like last years sound thinking that if they emulate linkin park or something they'll be the next linkin park. even though that sound is done. think and write music for your selves and maybe you will garner A&R interest...granted the music is marketable. that needs to be addressed too. They can't sell anymore a new band that sounds just like some old band.

The internet is actually saving music in my mind and returning it back over to the hands of artists and not labels. niche marketing and all.

the big studios are closing down. not fast. but it's beginning to happen. as tech gets better although it's not there yet, but close, to emulating the quality one can get out of a full on studio in their home, people are doing most of the work on their tracks at these home studios.

Sara bareilles last album was recorded that way. all at eric 's (the producer-did tori amos, anna nalick etc...real real nice guy) home studio. the song "love song" sounds pretty good to me recording quality wise. home studio. so yeah it's only a matter of time before the glenwood places of the world go bye bye.

reply to post by BASSPLYR


not to mention that the "old media" is way to slow compared to internet. Looks like its dying out.

There are podcasts, rss feeds, musicians websites, music websites, download websites, p2p, webcam-concerts, mp3 encoding...and the music industry with their BS payola will not be able to keep up.

reply to post by Skyfloating


This is a conspiracy that really makes sense....

Wish we could get back to the good old days before I was born.. heheh

Not to mention songs, but that 'pink' song, literally the worst melody I think I've ever heard in my life... sounds like a ripoff of a nursery rhyme melody... anyway this song would be the type I'd expect would fit into this conspiracy, or basically I'd say whatever record company she has, has got to be one of the richest, because I've heard that song more times than I'd ever hope to and I don't listen to the radio, just in stores and stuff..

If anyone is a fan of that song sorry if I offended you, just isn't my taste... I'm sure I listen to music people would think the same about... I just tend to like my taste in music... my fav 2 bands right now are she&him and of-montreal, I know pretty much the 2 biggest 'indie' bands out there, not even indie at this point their pretty big, but at the same time I'm sure many here have never heard of them, I don't think they fall in this catagory... well to be honest I haven't heard a single of-montreal song on the radio ever, I heard she&him only once at the mall... never on the radio.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by BASSPLYR

 

not to mention that the "old media" is way to slow compared to internet. Looks like its dying out.

There are podcasts, rss feeds, musicians websites, music websites, download websites, p2p, webcam-concerts, mp3 encoding...and the music industry with their BS payola will not be able to keep up.

ha ha... yeah I like this fact... musicians will eventually be getting their 1.99, or whatever percentage itunes gives them, and there will be no middle man, except itunes... even I can toss my music on itunes and supposedly sell it but i doubt anyone would buy it which is why I haven't yet... I'm glad newspapers are dying due to the internet and record companies losing due to the internet it's one good evolution this information age is having...