I believe Obesity has nothing to do with what food you eat.

No, the calorie thing is not ignorant. Your body is a self contained system, and if you absorb more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It really is that simple. Talking about metabolisms, etc., is arguing around the edges of the problem. Every single person who is overweight eats too much and/or is too inactive.

You want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise your muscles.

reply to post by WiseIsAwoken


Yes, I will concede that both your points are valid. The human body is not a perfect metabolizing machine, and most people do rarely need to use anything other than carbs for energy. But, while not perfect human metabolism is for the most part, efficient, and most calories are in the form of carbs. So, yes we're not 100% perfect but both those points only have a negligible effect on the overall concepts of the calorie theory

Originally posted by DevolutionEvolvd
Ok, how many obesity threads can we create in 6 months? That's the new game.

To the OP......What is metabolism and what controls it? What are the metabolic hormones and what controls them? What is effects to leptin, glucagon and insulin have on the metabolic system? Answer me that....

It's a little ignorant and egotistical to assume that people shouldn't get fat from eating junk food just because you do frequently.

So, if obesity isn't caused by poor dietary habits, what is the cause? Not sure? Go ahead and assume based on your own experiences. You'll learn that individual predispositions, such as increased metabolism, are the exception, not the rule.

-Dev

and yet research suggests that

Most overweight people are actually eating less than slender people. That does not seem to make sense, but it is true. The problem lies with how the body is able to burn or utilize the calories from the foods we eat. Thinner people simply burn off more calories, or energy, than heavy people do.


ezinearticles.com...



and

www.anred.com...


lists some of the known causes but not the very latest cutting edge research

Originally posted by Grumble
No, the calorie thing is not ignorant. Your body is a self contained system, and if you absorb more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It really is that simple. Talking about metabolisms, etc., is arguing around the edges of the problem. Every single person who is overweight eats too much and/or is too inactive.

You want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise your muscles.

So explain this for me. I exercise 4 days a week, 2 hours at a time. I eat twice a day, getting approx 1100 calories. No lie, I've measured.

I've been doing this for a good year and a half. I have been 50 pounds overweight all that time and can't lose it.

So, do I eat even less now?

Originally posted by Grumble
No, the calorie thing is not ignorant. Your body is a self contained system, and if you absorb more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It really is that simple. Talking about metabolisms, etc., is arguing around the edges of the problem. Every single person who is overweight eats too much and/or is too inactive.

You want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise your muscles.

and some people put on weight on 500 calories a day where as some people can eat 4000 calories a day and still not put on weight

500 calories a day is not sustainable long term so if your metabolism is so bad that you have to restrict calories to 500 a day you will get off the diet and yo yo - gain weight and then lose some and then gain again and then lose some

many would LOVE to be able to eat 1 normal small meal a day and not put on weight but for some that is not an option - the most they can do is eat 1 small meal every second day

Originally posted by WiseIsAwoken
Like I said before, anyone who states the calorie theory in regards to weight loss/gain is ill-informed about diet. Why?, the theory is easily dismantled because of many reasons, however, I'm only going to state two.

Number one, the human metabolism is not 100% efficient. Just because you eat 1000 calories doesn't mean your body actually ends up with 1000 calories. Just like anyone other device/entity that requires energy, you can't put in and get that right back out, that's simple thermodynamics.

Number two, while fat, protein, carbohydrates all contain calories, your body doesn't use them all for energy. For example, most people, as a matter of fact nearly all people are on a carbohydrate metabolism, meaning their body utilizes carbohydrates for energy nearly all the time, knowing this, it is only necessary to count calories for carbohydrates. Protein/fat are used for other things throughout the body(cell repair/hair growth/hormones) and rarely for anything else unless you are in ketosis(me) or gluconeogenesis(muscle burning). On the other hand, carbohydrates are mainly used for energy and not much else, hence only counting the carbohydrate calories.

Wow... and here I thought that the Krieb's cycle was the actual measure of ATP produced by carbs versus fat. Man... all that education down the drain.

The majority of research indicates it's not what you eat but how much and the level of physical activity/metabolism. I eat over 3,000 calories a day, and am still a very trim fellow. My old man is the same way, at 60 and 5 foot 9 his waist is 29 inches. He eats like crap, drinks too much and does not do a lot to take care of himself. Maintaining weight is all about calories consumed vs calories burned. The more calories in, the more belt you need. One ounce of fat has more calories than one ounce of protein, this is simple do a web search.

Originally posted by juniperberry

Originally posted by Grumble
No, the calorie thing is not ignorant. Your body is a self contained system, and if you absorb more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It really is that simple. Talking about metabolisms, etc., is arguing around the edges of the problem. Every single person who is overweight eats too much and/or is too inactive.

You want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise your muscles.

So explain this for me. I exercise 4 days a week, 2 hours at a time. I eat twice a day, getting approx 1100 calories. No lie, I've measured.

I've been doing this for a good year and a half. I have been 50 pounds overweight all that time and can't lose it.

So, do I eat even less now?

it gets ridiculous doesn't it?

just how little are you supposed to eat when your metabolism makes 100 calories do what 1000 calories do to someone else?

to eat so little you need to cut out whole food groups and so deprive yourself of important nutirents

please self-righteous people out there who have better metabolisms than this - spare a thought for those whose metabolisms work differently instead of being judgmental

you are what you eat

Please think about what I am about to say brfore wanting to laugh me off of the thread. Part of the reason more people are gaining weight is because of the way we changed how we started dressing. Once sweat suits became popular and we turned to looser clothing ( especially elastic waistbands ) we didn't notice the weight gain. Our clothes didn't fit tighter. I truely believe that this became part of the problem.

Originally posted by juniperberry
So explain this for me. I exercise 4 days a week, 2 hours at a time. I eat twice a day, getting approx 1100 calories. No lie, I've measured.

I've been doing this for a good year and a half. I have been 50 pounds overweight all that time and can't lose it.

So, do I eat even less now?

Please don't! That would be a bad idea.

Firstly, I would challenge your assertion that you're only consuming 1100 calories. Go to Fitday.com and enter the foods you would on a typical day and then tell me that you're only eating 1100 calories.

I can confidently say that most overfat people probably don't consume enough calories. They're undereating. Your post proves two points I've been making on these this forums:

1. Exercise alone does not change body composition.
   
2. A calorie is not a calorie, they're not made equal (according to your metabolic hormones) You can't expect fat loss by restricting calories alone, you need to restrict certain foods.
   

Originally posted by Grumble
No, the calorie thing is not ignorant. Your body is a self contained system, and if you absorb more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. It really is that simple. Talking about metabolisms, etc., is arguing around the edges of the problem. Every single person who is overweight eats too much and/or is too inactive.

You want to lose weight? Eat less and exercise your muscles.

Honestly, before you come in here shouting nonsense, I suggest you go find a biochemistry book and read a little bit about Metabolic Hormones.

Originally posted by Raustin
The majority of research indicates it's not what you eat but how much and the level of physical activity/metabolism. I eat over 3,000 calories a day, and am still a very trim fellow.

This is completely untrue. The truth is, most research indicates that fat loss is around 80% diet and 20% exercise.

One ounce of fat has more calories than one ounce of protein, this is simple do a web search.

But one ounce of protein has a completely different effect on your metabolism than does one ounce of fat. The body doesn't operate on simple math. If you wanna do math problems, the science forum is right down the hall.

-Dev

The problem is ppl eating lots of simple carbs. They make your blood sugar levels spike. This makes your body store the extra calories as fat.

Basicly if you eat 500 calories of ice cream. Your body will store some of that as fat bc your blood sugar level will spike. If you at 500 calories of say chicken breast it will be digested slowly with out a spike bc it is mostly protein. You will not store as much as fat.

Eating carbs with fiber,protein or fats will slow down digestion stoping the spike.

I am 6'3 210 lbs and 12% body fat last time i checked ( 3 months ago).I eat about 3000 or so calories a day. I get most of my calories form protein and fats most of my carbs come from fruit and veg.

About 2 years ago i was 240lbs i dont know what my bf% was but im guessing 30% i played sports a bit and that was realy my only activity. I still ate about 3000 calories. They where all simple carbs though pizza, white bread and pastas. just by changing what i eat and doing a little exercise ( gym 5 times a week for a hour 15 min cardio and 45 min weights) I lost over 50 lbs of fat in 2 years.

Are you a Dr.? Are you discounting all of the medical studies that have been done and published? I know this: I have seen plenty of skinny people that NEVER exercise. However, I have never seen a fat person that stayed clear of bad foods. I have also seen fat people who exercise and wonder why they do not lose weight, while all the time they continue their bad eating habits. I truly think you need to reevaluate this belief of yours.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
It's not what food you eat that causes obesity. That has something to do with it but it's not that what really causes it is how fast your metabolism is and how much you exercise. If you don't exercise that much you're going to gain a lot of weight, and, if you eat too much you'll get it. It's not about the kinds of food you eat.

really?

I eat junkfood, I eat portions of meals, and, I don't need to care about what I eat because I eat the right amount of food and I don't gain weight. This leads me to conclude that the act of gaining weight is caused by something else and by bodily problems.

Yes, but different types of food have different calories, weight per weight. The classic example is your salad vs your dripping steak.

I think it's becoming clearer and clearer to me that obesity isn't as simple as everyone thinks it is. It doesn't have to do with what you eat. It's more of a habitual thing.

Habitual fat maybe.

[edit on 11-11-2008 by redled]

reply to post by juniperberry


I feel your pain but definitely agree with what DevolutionEvolvd posted. A calorie is not a calorie. That in itself is the downfall of many of us battling with weight.

I found that Carbs are pure Evil! I put on weight as soon as I start eating bread and dairy and won't be able to shake it no matter how much i exercise. So try cutting carbs out of your diet and see if it makes a difference. In saying that, I am no food or diet expert but i found that it worked for me.

The fact of the matter is that there are many reasons that people lose or gain weight. The truth is that Americans are gaining weight faster than any others. We might need to look at the differences in our eating, exercising, enviromental and emotional states as compared to places where nearly everyone is skinny. This might give us some comparison to work with instead of arguing individual points.

Originally posted by badgerprints
The fact of the matter is that there are many reasons that people lose or gain weight.

Like input calories excess sweat and output calories.

The truth is that Americans are gaining weight faster than any others. We might need to look at the differences in our eating, exercising, enviromental and emotional states as compared to places where nearly everyone is skinny. This might give us some comparison to work with instead of arguing individual points.

Look at the Chinese, they have the cultural bounds of fat=good to overcome. They have a bigger heart attack watch than Americans.

In general (and I would like everyone to take this with a large grain of salt).... weight gain has to do with how much you eat. Now, different foods are NOT the same (as most posters have said here). But, generally speaking, those who eat much more than they need to maintain an equalibrium tend to eat things that are not good for them. Its a vicious cycle. You eat more, and you tend to crave those things that only increase weight. Our bodies have this habit of holding on to excess food... I suspose it comes from the cave man days (no, I don't want to get into a discussion of creationism vs evolution). Back then, we didn't know when or where our next meal was coming... so our bodies adapted to hold onto fat and help stave off starvation. We haven't lost that drive... although some individuals seem to have less ability to store fats than others (i.e. heredity). So.... you are all correct, but not completely. The toughtest things tend to be very complex. So to is the diet/exercise to weight issue.

reply to post by Amniodarone


I would agree but lately I've been able to eat a lot and not gain weight.

For that reason I've come to believe that the reason people think we gain weight is false.

Please, if I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

Originally posted by redled
Look at the Chinese, they have the cultural bounds of fat=good to overcome. They have a bigger heart attack watch than Americans.

Chinese? From China, right? Oh, the country that has the longest Life Expectancy of any country? Hmm. Interesting.

Originally posted by Amniodarone
In general (and I would like everyone to take this with a large grain of salt).... weight gain has to do with how much you eat.

Grain of salt taken. Was that sea salt or processed? I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but that is only really true in extremes. For examply, people who are addicted to food and can't stop eating become extremely obese and tend to weigh about as much as a small car at times. This is a psychological problem. Generally speaking, most people will not lose weight by simply maintaining a calorie restriction, unless it is an extreme restriction.

You eat more, and you tend to crave those things that only increase weight.

Here's a mind experiment. Think of a food that you tend to crave more than you do sex. Or the food that once you stop eating, you can't stop. Got it? Ok, I'll bet you one of those is a carb. There's a reason for that too.

Our bodies have this habit of holding on to excess food... I suspose it comes from the cave man days (no, I don't want to get into a discussion of creationism vs evolution). Back then, we didn't know when or where our next meal was coming... so our bodies adapted to hold onto fat and help stave off starvation.

Now we're getting somewhere. It's not really a habit as it is a metabolic process. The hormone resposible for storing excess energy is Insulin. It has many different jobs but the one we see as being most important is lowering blood glucose. This is where it gets interesting. It's obvious that lower blood glucose is not insulins primary function. We know this because when blood glucose rises the body panics, the pancreas usually over compensates and ends up lowering it too far. Then, another hormone, usually glucagon, comes to the rescue the body from Hypoglycemia.

What's really interesting is that there are many hormones that raise blood sugar: Cortisone, Growth Hormone, Epinephrine and Glucagon. There is only one that lowers it. Insulin. So, from this information, one can conclude that high glucose levels were not a problem of early man. The only time they would have high glucose was when their liver would release glycogen for quick bursts of energy, like running from a saber-tooth tiger. Of course, after the quick sprint, most of the glucose would have been burned for energy and any left in the blood would have been lowered by Insulin. An emergency situation.

What does this mean to you and me? Don't eat carbs unless they contain fiber. That means, every carb is out except for Vegetables and certain Fruits.

The toughtest things tend to be very complex. So to is the diet/exercise to weight issue.

It may seem complex but, on the surface, it truely is simple. Especially when you consider the effects that Hyperinsulinemia has on the body, which comes from excess carbs in the diet.