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Originally posted by lynn112
While I have no issue with teaching our children to help others through community service, (Mine do every month) I do take issue with it being required by our government.
I'm really upset at the notion that our kids will be forced to work the equivalent of 3 or so work weeks for free.

Is this really a surprise for you? This has been in his plans since the very beginning. I remember arguing in a thread close to a year ago that I thought it was wrong to force anybody to do anything. I think there are going to be many Obama supporters that didn't really research their candidate who are surprised by some of the things they voted for.

reply to post by TwiTcHomatic


Actually I work on the machine in front of me & furthering my knowledge of the world around doesn't seem a waste at all IMO. TV, I have little use for it so that doesn't apply to me.

Aside from that, sorry, but I do object to my 11 yr old daughter being required to do community service. She does it already, on my terms & as her parent, I would like to keep the right to make that choice for her.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


The sad thing is, it doesn't surprise me at all. America used to be the home of the free, now it is sounding more like home of the drones.

It isn't actually required unless you want the money. His editors should really be more clear..

If you look under the education section it states that,

Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

Enter is fun. Double Post'd

[edit on 7/11/08 by Thaumaturgus]

God forbid we instill in a younger generation the habit of contributing to the community. Look at the turmoil we'd be in......people cooperating, a developed sense of responsibility, possibly a more civil culture.....the future of that is too horrible to contemplate....

Oh no.....don't ask my widdle snookums to give up an hour a week for the community.....oh the horror....

reply to post by Thaumaturgus


If it is not required, then why is it that the word required is used on the "America Serves" page? Either he has horrid content editors or these are two different programs.

[edit on 10/11/2008 by lynn112]

reply to post by MrPenny


I've already stated this, but I'll say it again. I have no problem with my children helping their community.

I do have a problem with it being required. I also have a problem with the idea that the program will likely limit the charities you can do your community service for to a small group of gov. approved ones & in effect, limiting the smaller charities ability to function.

I know I'm a little late on this thread but a govt. mandated service program is the last thing that we need. Just another example of worthless big govt.

The motivation to serve your community should originate from within yourself and should be encouraged by your parents. Volunteer at your church, join the boy/girl scouts, join Key club, organize your friends, go sing Christmas Carols at a nursing home etc.

Forcing people to serve only serves to demean the act of service itself. It will be like watching a crew of convicted DUI felons in orange vests combing the street for used condoms and beer bottles on an early Sat. morning.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by jibeho]

This is EXACTLY what we need.


Why?

Because no one teaches CIVICS!

They don't teach CIVICS in school, so they have to learn it someplace.

The same people who complain about society being uneducated complain about training our citizens in civic duty... I just don't get it.

We are either American or not. If we can say the pledge in school then we can surely have civics training 3 months our of our life time...



[edit on 10-11-2008 by HunkaHunka]

I had a long discussion with a friend this weekend while hiking out in the woods about this issue. She made a really good point that I thought I'd share here. Her question for me was "Who decides what qualifies for this community service time?" She told me that her kids volunteered several hours a week at their catholic church. Would this qualify? I'm guessing that many groups in this county would have issue with government giving somebody $4k for volunteering at a church as that could be seen as favoring a specific religion. This line of thought leads me to believe that there would have to be specifically mandated government community service projects around the country. Along with that comes the need for government employees to manage these events and keep track of who's attending them. This could get pretty elaborate. I see an entirely new government entity existing just to manage the new community service program. Guess we'll be paying for that too.

Originally posted by lynn112
I have no problem with my children helping their community.

That's fine. That's a wonderful and commendable ideal.

So.....are they? And if they are, what impact to society do you suppose an insignificant percentage of participants will have? Conversely, do you think a significantly increased level of participation will have adverse affects on our society or culture?

I do have a problem with it being required.

Many activities are required; many of them onerous, intrusive, or otherwise aggravating. Some requirements make a huge amount of sense....staying to the right of the center dividing line for instance. An elementary education is another. Most communities have some requirements that children attend school or be home schooled to achieve an increased level of societal competence.

So what would be any issue with the idea that, say....an hour a day is devoted to "community service?"

Other than your righteous indignation about its "required" status.....what would be less than beneficial with immersing millions of children in a culture of community service?

I work in a very large public school district in the Midwest.....and the lack of community purpose, societal responsibility, and altruism, is disheartening. Most of these people have to be prodded to pick up the trash that they have tossed on the ground.

And if you want to "opt out" of activities because they are "required"...fine, go whole hog then.....opt out of everything you find to be required. Drive on the opposite side of the road.....don't worry about personal hygiene....

You probably get my point now.

Originally posted by TwiTcHomatic
reply to post by lynn112

 

$4000 in tuition money for 100 hours of helping your fellow man..

Thats about $40 an hour, for something you can choose when to do.

I don't think you would have to worry about your 11 year old being sent out to pick up trash off the side of the highway. Thats a bit rash.


[edit on 6-11-2008 by TwiTcHomatic]

I was picking up trash with the Boy Scouts at age 13, not much of a stretch,

40 an HOUR?!? man, im going to quit my job and just do community service! or mandated localized public works service, or whatever you want to call it.

what happens when some little kid gets hurt doing this?

yeah drive down cherry street in winston salem NC and tell all the kids you see there 'time for work' and see how far that gets you. what if people like me who already did their time? can we get reimbursed? haha

if the government would get off our backs and let us do business the way have in the past then all our business models wouldn't be failing due to government "intervention".

Small government, people. please.

[edit on 10-11-2008 by drsmooth23]

Originally posted by MrPenny
And if you want to "opt out" of activities because they are "required"...fine, go whole hog then.....opt out of everything you find to be required. Drive on the opposite side of the road.....don't worry about personal hygiene....

This is slightly off topic, but I had to comment. Are you saying that personal hygeine is mandatory in the US? That's certainly news to me.

Originally posted by BlueTriangle
"Who decides what qualifies for this community service time?"

Good question. And instead of asking it privately, or here on ATS....start asking your local and state representatives now. Organize a campaign to ask the question repeatedly. Go to change.org and ask the question. Expand the dialogue to more brains that ATS represents. Not intending to dis these forums, but this is a relatively small percentage of the population.

I myself am not too worried about the question. It's just a gut feeling, but I have the sense that the answer will fall somewhere around..."whatever you, or your local community, thinks qualifies." At least, if my platform were "Change", I'd walk the walk and see what happens when government doesn't call every piddling shot.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


No....of course not. And you know you never read the word "mandatory" in my text. Personal hygiene is a "requirement" of our society and culture. I know...it isn't always followed to the letter. Which points out a negative aspect of ignoring a "required" activity.

So we can see now at least one example of a negative impact when members of our society ignore a requirement......Can we find a negative scenario of ignoring "required" community involvement?

I think we already have......look around you. Really look at the litter on the streets.

Originally posted by MrPenny
No....of course not. And you know you never read the word "mandatory" in my text. Personal hygiene is a "requirement" of our society and culture. I know...it isn't always followed to the letter. Which points out a negative aspect of ignoring a "required" activity.

I intended that post as a joke but I never expected that you would try to defend that policy by declaring there's a significant difference between "required" and "mandatory", LOL. I don't quite know how to respond other than cut/pasting dictionary definitions of the two words and you're perfectly capable of doing that research on your own.

reply to post by BlueTriangle


Well I think you're splitting hairs....I'm using "required" in its meaning of "needed: necessary for relief or supply"....

Yeah, semantically and pedantically, the words can carry the same meaning. However context is key here. Now, that being said....you have a significant reading problem....I did not;

defend that policy by declaring there's a significant difference between "required" and "mandatory"

I apologize if my intent was too subtle. This post should be quite clear....'Kay?





[edit on 10-11-2008 by MrPenny]

Originally posted by MrPenny
Now, that being said....you have a significant reading problem....I did not;

Pardon me? That certainly sounds like a personal attack. Since we're discussing the words "mandatory" and "required" it might be prudent to point out that "Courtesy is Mandatory" here on ATS. In case you missed that, you might want to check out this LINK.

Obama is already back-tracking on his website. Looks like he's made a CHANGE.

www.infowars.com...

So he throws out an idea.. people don't like it .. and he changes it.
Maybe some older German's or Italian's told him he shouldn't word it that way.



[edit on 10-11-2008 by MetatronCubensis]