People 'can't wait for ID cards'

Originally posted by neformore
If any other party is voted in at the next general election, this scheme will be scrapped.

I'm not sure abot this, whilst every other party says they'll scrap it there is a problem. By the time the election happens the cards will be so far along that maybe it will cost more to scrap them. If that's the case then they'll be brought in.

Originally posted by neformore
1. Gordon Brown is about as popular as a rat in a restaurant kitchen and unless he has a personality transplant in the next 18 months I can't see many people having "faith" in him as Labour leader.

Agreed but again if the cards are far along then maybe they'll be implemented anyway, however maybe they're saving some dirt on cameron before the elction.

Originally posted by neformore
Can't see the ID card thing happening at all, personally.

I really hope you're right

I've signed the Government (.gov) petition. I honestly don't care if they mark me down as a subversive it's more important to get my point across and do everything possible to get this ID Card scheme scrapped - even if it is a futile gesture.

Thread starred and flagged.

reply to post by malcr


Mate, EVEN if all of your points are grudgingly met, just how long do you think these conditions will be kept?

Once they have introduced these things, once the public has been re-blinkered over these, then the system will be gradually changed to suit whatever agenda they want, and there'l be NOTHING we would be able to do about it, short of 'volunteering' for escalating heavy fines followed by innocents (innocent of everything except meeting thier ID card condidtions that is) being made to do community service as punishment, swiftly followed by prison if the community # doesn't work to scare enough people into line. Initially this will be short, sharp time, increasing in line with disobedience.
They will be able to know ALL of your life. It is NOT just about what data is stored, but is more about them being able to observe every aspect of our lives.

Our political affiliations, our tastes in entertainment, our travel and whereabouts information, our food preferences, branding etc, sexual preferences, whether you are cheating on your spouse or partner, are you gay? Want to keep that information to yourself? Think again, where you like to go on holiday, what you eat and drink when you get there, and all other activities while there. What about if you wanted to buy ATS merchandise? Nothing could be kept secret from these 'people'. Period.

Ask for all the conditions and caveats you want, you may even see some of them met, but we all know the real deal, well anyone who is over the age of about 10 will know, that governments LIE regularly, they make promises that are not promises, they will say anything to get their way, and then turn around and do what the originally planned to do all along anyway!
Frog in boiling water senario. Boiling water the frog jumps right out, cool water warmed up gradually, the frog stays there and slowly boils oblivious to the fact it is slowly being cooked!

Same thing is used on people.

Do not accept it.

Refuse it.

Unless of course, you actually like the thought of the above.

spikey.

Originally posted by neformore

Originally posted by spitefulgod

Watch the above video

But its Icke.

Sorry, I can't take the guy seriously. I remember him when he was Coventry's goalkeeper, and I watched the Wogan thing.....

Still, maybe he's right, and maybe he ain't.

i used to think the same..until i actually sat down and listened to him....now..i can honestly say...hes a hero..

The public should unionise then offer this as a bargain: legalise drugs, release all non-violent drug related prisoners and clear their records and we'll accept your ID.

A friend sent me this while discussing this topic:www.guardian.co.uk...
All I can say is...I'm headed for the hills, with my guns and going into hiding. No ID cards, chips,implants or barcodes for me and mine.

reply to post by SilentOne


Police do not have the right to randomly stop and search anyone and take their fingerprints.
Police need reasonable suspicion that you have either committed, or are about to commit a crime.
If stopped, you are perfectly within your rights to refuse to answer any questions and to refuse any fingerprinting.

We are in the dangerous position where the police are implementing new practices, without due legal and government procedure and support, and MSM refuse to report our legal rights.

The police are acting outside of their jurisdiction, they are there to enforce and assure adherence to the law, not to make the law.

As stated in another thread, the powers that be use politicians, police and MSM to help generate and feed on the general public's fear's. In turn the public turn to the politicians and police and ask them to take away our freedoms and liberties. This gives the puppet masters more and more control.

ID Cards, CCTV, increased internet and phone monitoring, fingerprinting etc; it's all part of the same programme.

well, not to be a bible thumper but maybe the people in the UK should read Revelation. This is the way to get the mark on the masses. If you dont take there card you will not eat, Or do anything for that matter.

some information about ID cards.

50 categories of registrable fact are set out in the Bill, though they could be added to. Effectively an index to all other official and quasi-official records, through cross-references and an audit trail of all checks on the Register, the NIR would be the key to a total life history of every individual, to be retained even after death.

Many western countries that have ID cards do not have a shared register. Mostly ID cards have been limited in use, with strong legal privacy protections. In Germany centralisation is forbidden for historical reasons, and when cards are replaced, the records are not linked. Belgium has made use of modern encryption methods and local storage to protect privacy and prevent data-sharing, an approach opposite to the Home Office's. The UK scheme is closest to those of some Middle Eastern countries and of the People's Republic of China—though the latter has largely given up on biometrics.

ID does not establish intention. Competent criminals and terrorists will be able to subvert the identity system. Random outrages by individuals can't be stopped. Ministers agree that ID cards will not prevent atrocities. A blank assertion that the department would find it helpful is not an argument that would be entertained for fundamental change in any other sphere of government but national security. Where is the evidence? Research suggests there is no link between the use of identity cards and the prevalence of terrorism, and in no instance has the presence of an identity card system been shown a significant deterrent to terrorist activity. Experts attest that ID unjustifiably presumed secure actually diminishes security.

Both Australia and the USA have far worse problems of identity theft than Britain, precisely because of general reliance on a single reference source. Costs usually cited for of identity-related crime here include much fraud not susceptible to an ID system. Nominally "secure", trusted, ID is more useful to the fraudster. The Home Office has not explained how it will stop registration by identity thieves in the personae of innocent others. Coherent collection of all sensitive personal data by government, and its easy transmission between departments, will create vast new opportunities for data-theft.

www.no2id.net...



Even Tony Blair under whose leadership the cards were first proposed is against the use of them.

So what did he think of ID cards? The answer was on page 68: "Instead of wasting hundreds of millions of pounds on compulsory ID cards, let that money provide thousands more police officers on the beat in our local community." So much for Mr Blair's new contract.

And from the same article,contrary to popular belief;

From 2008, if you want to get a new passport, you will be automatically registered on the ID database, with no choice in the matter. You will also have to go to one of a network of centres that is currently being prepared around the country, where 50 pieces of personal information will be input into the database, and scans of both irises, all your fingerprints and a photograph will be taken.

You will be issued with your personal identity number and it will be an offence if, having been entered on to the database, you do not subsequently inform the authorities that you have moved home. It will, of course, be possible to do without a passport, but this is hardly a realistic option for most people.

www.telegraph.co.uk.../opinion/2006/12/04/do0402.xml

The likely cost of obtaining one of the Government's proposed ID cards has doubled from £30 to £60. The job of taking fingerprints and other biometric data is being outsourced to private firms, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith confirmed yesterday. She said this would save the Government £1billion.But there was indignation after it was disclosed that the private firms will send the bill for the work undertaken not to the Government but to individual applicants.

www.dailymail.co.uk...


Related link.
www.pledgebank.com...



[edit on 7-11-2008 by jakyll]

Jakyll, that's a really good post.

I will never consent to this level of infringement into my privacy and freedom. Privacy is a personal preference but freedom was intended us by nature and the one God. To me, this ID card is a synonym to slavery.


I really do not understand why it is that because we believe we can talk, socialize, alter our environment to our will, and we call ourselves "human" (whatever that means these days) that we assume we're above all other nature and consider we're supposed to bully and monitor each other to protect ourselves. I look around and I think to myself, and I consider, so much of our social world, our rules, our regulations, are socially-imposed imaginaries.

So many of our crimes and restrictions have their basis in bullying - you can't do that because... I can't do that, he can't.., I don't like it, it frightens me, when I was younger I was told off for doing it, I don't want him/her to look better than me, he/she is better skilled than me so I don't think.... It goes on and on. And this ID card is just an extension of this perpetual bullying.

Just because we don't want it, the gov imposes it by force (stealth or not, it is forced subjugation).

I really do, I really, really with all my being wish that people stop and consider their reasonings behind their beliefs of what's right and wrong; and I hope they realize that most their ideas of right and wrong were imposed by others who only "thought" they were correct because they had been told they were correct; or by others who just felt a particular way on a particular day. We talk about prejudice as though we know what it means and can recognize it in action. But I don't think most of us realize that the prejudice often belongs to the accuser; and it's more evident in our everyday actions than we think.

The more I open my eyes, the more bullying and socially-imposed reality I see. It is frightening to see how blind so many of us are to what we really (deep down inside) think. We seem to think that society is getting better; but I can't see it; the prejudice has just shifted from one place to another. At the moment it's on the government's side and it's being used to bully us into further enslavement and cataloging.


I know my rant may seem off topic and a little disjointed but I had to get into the open however it came out.

Edited to add: Jakyll, if I could have given you three stars I would have done but one will have to do.

[edit on 7/11/08 by Rapacity]

reply to post by Rapacity


Many thanks.

It seems that while America is turning into a fascist state Britain is turning into a communist one.

Have you also noticed as well that the mainstream media hardly covered the protests against ID cards in several countries?? Such a thing would damage the image of it being good and worthwhile.

Related links.
On Campaigns of Opposition to ID Card Schemes.
www.privacyinternational.org...

DEFENDING ANONYMITY.
flag.blackened.net...


Some people don't realize that this isn't just a European thing.There are over a 100 countries with compulsory cards.Austria,Switzerland,France,Canada,Finland,Sweden,Iceland and Italy have non-compulsory cards.The UK,the US,Japan,Norway,the Philippines,Albania,Australia,Denmark,India,Ireland and New Zealand don't have any.Yet.


The debate still rages in the UK though.

Cameron calls for ID cards halt.
news.bbc.co.uk...

Is Brown re-thinking ID cards?
news.bbc.co.uk...


And a personnel fave.

Hackers crack new biometric passports.

Hi-tech biometric passports used by Britain and other countries have been hacked by a computer expert, throwing into doubt fundamental parts of the UK's £415m scheme to load passports with information such as fingerprints, facial scans and iris patterns.

www.guardian.co.uk...



[edit on 7-11-2008 by jakyll]

reply to post by jakyll


Protests? Against ID cards? In other countries?

Never heard about them. Thought everybody in the rest of the world had them and are overjoyed with them and the safety they bring. I have to agree with you, Jakyll. There is no free popular media in the U.K.

I used to listen to TalkSport for its non-sport evening talk shows but I tell you, over the last few months it has become a megaphone for the government. I don't even feel that the one long-time presenter it has left believes half of what he says (he definitely didn't a few months ago when he spoke the opposite words). It's as though he's promoting the gov and protesting the opposition because he's afraid to lose his career. Just as one outspoken presenter did; and there's another outspoken presenter for whom I have no idea for how his end with the station came.

Most of the U.K media appears to be taming in favor of the government. There are a few, odd, programs and documentaries that speak freely about the government and the PC agendum but not enough. Even the soaps are like public information ads. They have been for a long time.

Can you explain why some U.K online newspapers don't allow reader comments for some of their articles but not all of them? They haven't always been like it. I'm fearly certain that upto a year ago (at least) most of the popular online newspapers allowed reader commentary to most of their articles.

reply to post by Rapacity

Never heard about them. Thought everybody in the rest of the world had them and are overjoyed with them and the safety they bring. I have to agree with you, Jakyll. There is no free popular media in the U.K.

It just goes to show how controlled the media really is.I saw a few incidents on Channel 4 news and BBC news before they were whipped off air never to be seen again.But i got reports from family i have in Germany and friends i have in Australia.

It was the same with the Euro debate.Several countries,especially Germany,had mass opposition.The Germans even took to the streets.

Can you explain why some U.K online newspapers don't allow reader comments for some of their articles but not all of them? They haven't always been like it. I'm fearly certain that upto a year ago (at least) most of the popular online newspapers allowed reader commentary to most of their articles.

Control and mass manipulation.
Its gone on for many years,but its only recently that it has become more obvious,more easy to spot.They don't want to print anything by people who don't tow the line.

reply to post by jakyll


It's a shame that too few people are discontented enough aswellas able to see the true source of their discontent to want to do anything that promotes change toward the betterment of their lives. Many are too happy to live in the dark "ignorant" room and hold the shame that comes with not having the courage to face the criticisms of others as they try to switch on the lights.

In the U.K, it seems to be held correct to knock those who speak out against the removals of freedoms. Tell someone what you really think about the wrongs in U.K society. In privacy, that someone will support you; but in public, that same person will most likely clam up or deride you. And that is the tool of our oppressors.

No matter. Society will eventually get to where it's supposed to go...

When I saw this from that lying politician smith...

Well I nearly cracked up laughing, till I realised that in fact many would accept what she said as the truth.

Where are these people asking for ID cards?

It got me to thinking though.....


WHO here would go to prison or risk prosecution to refuse one?

That's the question that is the crux of this, for it will one day soon, or not so soon come to that.

To be illegal not to carry one on yourself.

I don't think I would ever ever accept this myself.

Yourselves?

I read Mills "On pursuit of Liberty" way to young to fall for it.

Elf

reply to post by MischeviousElf


I will risk my life fighting for the freedoms others are so unwilling to step out of their coerced feelings and thoughts to defend. I'm too individual to fall easily for our species' sublimation (genitive plural intended).