The Coyne incident, Mansfield, Ohio, 1973

Originally posted by SkepticalSpectacle

One thing that I noticed with these alleged 'eyewitness sightings' is that the 'spaceships' design changes according to pop culture and alien movies of their respective eras.

[edit on 7-11-2008 by SkepticalSpectacle]

There has been quite a variety of shapes and designs reported, but some have very consistent over the decades. As an example, there is this incident involving an oval shaped "spaceship" with a dome on top that stopped for repairs in the bush near Nipawin Saskatchewan in 1933.

"From their vantage point they were able to make out that the light came from a large oval shaped object that was domed at the top and slightly rounded on the bottom. It was supported by legs and from a central doorway, ot hatch, about a dozen figures could be seen going up and down a ladder like stairway. The occupants appeared to be slightly shorter than the average man, and were all dressed in what appeared to be silver colored suits or uniforms. All appeared to be wearing helmets or ski caps, and all were busy running around "repairing" the craft."

1933 Nipawin Saskatchewan, Spacecraft Stops for Repairs

I came upon this incident many years ago doing research on UFOs. The description of the craft's occupants matches the aliens my mother told us she saw when she was a young girl living on a farm in northern Saskatchewan. Her family's farm was about a hundred miles WSW of Nipawin and the incident happened about the same time. My mother told us about the alien encounter many times and her story never changed.

Originally posted by SkepticalSpectacle

It's all a hoax. If you want to refute what I just said present physical evidence. Present physical proof.

Well here's two cases involving physical evidence, the most famous being the one involving Betty Cash. These two cases involve physical injuries that were medically documented.

There have also been plenty of reports where UFOs left physical traces in the environment, perhaps the most well known and credible being the object witnessed by Police Officer Lonnie Zamora.

If you also include radar tapes as physical evidence then the number of cases with physical evidence is vast.

To return to your claim that UFO reports are conflabulations based on movie imagery where do you suppose the movie makers got their ideas from? Flying Saucers/UFOs in movies, especially in the 50s were so popular because the movie makers were responding to a real cultural phenomenon, namely that people were reporting seeing flying saucers.

Spielberg did not make Close Encounters in isolation, it was a fiction but one based heavily on Project Blue Book and other documented cases. J. Allen Hynek who worked on Project Blue Book was a scientific consultant on the film. The reports came first then the films, not the other way round.

I realise I'm unlikely to convince you. I will even grant you that the cases I cite do not constitute solid proof of the existence of aliens. However, to state categorically that all reports are hoaxes is an amazing statement and one which is IMO unsupportable. The evidence suggests a real phenomenon even if we don't know what it is.



[edit on 8/11/2008 by MarrsAttax]

It does seem to be a really daft stance, "there's no proof I like so it does not exist".

If scientists, surgeons etc used the same logic then we would still be in the dark ages or there abouts. We are still finding life on this planet that lives in previously thought impossible area's, had we not taken a thought outside the box and never looked then we would still have the same ideals.

Skepticalspectacle does make a good point. While having that many reports of the same incident, without any concrete evidence, it is still just a more documented than usual UFO sighting. I've seen UFO's, but without any concrete evidence, no one other than the people I was with will believe me. Ockham's razor is a good philosophy on things of this sort. However, there is more evidence than usual, so I'm going to have to put in my tally for the neutral standing and say that this is a possible truth, but may not be a true sighting.

Originally posted by Kiltedninja
Skepticalspectacle does make a good point. While having that many reports of the same incident, without any concrete evidence, it is still just a more documented than usual UFO sighting. I've seen UFO's, but without any concrete evidence, no one other than the people I was with will believe me. Ockham's razor is a good philosophy on things of this sort. However, there is more evidence than usual, so I'm going to have to put in my tally for the neutral standing and say that this is a possible truth, but may not be a true sighting.

And you said it as the way a truly skeptical person should rather than just over rule it as a hoax, lies or mental illness.

Well said..

This is where my research becomes a little thin,

Can someone point me in the right direction as to where I can get more info on these cigar type craft? nowadays it appears that the crafts are metallic discs or Triangular shape. Does anyone think that the cigar shaped craft were from a different race other than the Nordics/Grays? that visited between the 60's and 70s?

Great thread as always

reply to post by franspeakfree


From what I've read in the past the cigar shaped ufos are generally much larger than the disc type and also seen at higher altitudes leading some to speculate that the discs are atmospheric craft while the cigars are the 'motherships' that transport the discs through interstellar space.

I haven't got any citations to hand as this is from memory but I'll try and dig something out. I've been meaning to go through all my old copies of UFO Magazine so this is a good excuse.


Edit: I just did a quick google search which threw up this page. It gives some nice examples of cigar shaped craft.


[edit on 12/11/2008 by MarrsAttax]

[edit on 12/11/2008 by MarrsAttax]

[edit on 12/11/2008 by MarrsAttax]

[edit on 12/11/2008 by MarrsAttax]

reply to post by MarrsAttax


I found this report of a sighting of a cigar shaped UFO in 1998. Estimated altitude 30.000 feet:

CIGAR-SHAPED UFO SEEN NEAR CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND

Three people witnessed a cigar-shaped UFO in the sky over Bexley, just north of Christchurch, South Island, in New Zealand on Monday, March 30, 1998.

At 8:30 p.m., Edith Perkins saw what she called "a capsule or cigar-shaped object at first...silver-whitish body, darker grey forked tail."

"At the time I was doing some chores in our backyard," she reported, "We live by the coastal line of New Brighton. NaturallyI looked up and I observed, still overhead, the silver-whitish object coming. I was facing west. The rounded edges, front and back, of the object called my attention. Its size appeared to be about 10 centimeters (five inches) long (if held at arm's length--J.T.)." She estimated its altitude to be 30,000 feet but "was puzzled that there was no trail behind it."

Edith went to fetch a pair of 7X35 binoculars. She was soon joined by her husband and a home-care nurse. As they watched, "suddenly a very bright light covered the object. It did not happen as a flash of light. It had a beginning" and at the end of the light burst, "I was seeing a different rear on the craft, a forked end to it, the colour of it was dark grey."

Another burst of light occurred, "and the object presented a rim, all around the craft, with either intermittent colour lights on the rim or a rotating rim." She described the lights as "reddish-orange tones." The UFO flew out over Pegasus Bay, heading northeast.

www.ufoinfo.com...

reply to post by MarrsAttax


Thanks for the info,

This may sound strange to many but normal for some. But recently I have been thinking about the cigar type UFO'S and lo and behold I come across threads on them. I have come to the conclusion that they are the motherships, and they are the craft that astronauts monitor when in space. I to believe that the metallic disc shaped UFOS are the scout ships if you like and that once they do whatever they do here on Earth then return to the cigar type craft. However, I also think that there are Cigar type craft based deep down under the sea maybe even part of another eben race that is based inside the earth?

If anyone has any info they would like to share about cigar type crafts I for one would love to know it.



[edit on 13-11-2008 by franspeakfree]

Thank you for the write up on this incident, Internos.

I found the video interview highly compelling. Seeing witnesses discuss sightings is so much more telling than transcripts, and their body language can often show deception.

i was part of the ground observation of sorts it was my family that saw the object , i was 11 days from being born. i was there but not yet able to see, my family doesnt talk about this very much . but for all the non believers they would of had no reason to make it up , they never gained fame or fortune for this incident,

reply to post by internos


Fascinating account -never heard of this one before.
Great work

Documentary on the Coyne incident which has info on the electromagnetic interference aspect of the case and also includes interviews with witnesses on the ground:






Statement made by the pilot at a United Nations Hearing on UFOs:

"With the aircraft under my control, I observed the red-lighted object closing upon the helicopter at the same altitude at a high rate of speed. It became apparent a mid-air collision was about to happen unless evasive action was taken."
"I looked out ahead of the helicopter and observed an aircraft I have never seen before. This craft positioned itself directly in front of the moving helicopter.
This craft was 50 to 60 feet long with a grey metallic structure. On the front of this craft was a large steady bright red light. I could delineate where the red stopped on the structure of this craft because red was reflecting off the grey structure. The design of this craft was symmetrical in shape with a prominent aft indentation on the undercarriage. From this portion of the undercarriage, a green light, pyramid-shaped, emerged with the light initially in the trail position.
This green light then swung 90 degrees, coming directly into the front windshield and lighting up the entire cockpit of the aircraft. All colors inside the cabin of the helicopter were absorbed by this green light. That includes the instrument panel lights on the aircraft."
"As a result of my experience, I am convinced this object was real and that these types of incidents should require a thorough investigation. It is my own personal opinion that worldwide procedures need to be established to effectively study this phenomena through an international cooperative effort. The establishment of a Transponder Code for aircraft flying worldwide is needed, to identify to ground controllers that a pilot is indeed experiencing a UFO phenomena and that pilot anxiety can be reduced to provide safe effective flying, knowing he is under radar control."
Lieutenant Colonel Lawrence J. Coyne describing UFO encounter he witnessed with three other airmen over Mansfield Ohio,October 18, 1973.
Quote taken from United Nations UFO hearing in 1978.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

reply to post by internos


Great thread internos, well researched and laid out.

This is one of the top cases IMHO in Ufology and also a rare UFO-Helicopter encounter. What was it? I think we know what it was.

On a side note it seems like the craft was looking for something or someone, that is my take on the 'scanning' from the green light anyways. Makes you wonder...

Originally posted by jkrog08
This is one of the top cases IMHO in Ufology and also a rare UFO-Helicopter encounter.

What was it?

Jkrog -its certainly a very interesting case mate and I don't think anyone has any idea what the object was -there's a good interview here with the pilot (around 1:10) and the close range eye-witness description sounds a very strange one.
Cheers.

Similar object witnessed above New Sudbury,Cananda,October 4th 1967.

Canadian archives:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/5387ad2d02de.jpg[/atsimg]

ONE OBJECT, VERY BRIGHT, NO SHADOWS OBSERVED;GREEN AT ONE END, WHITE PULSATING LIGHT IN CENTRE, RED AT OTHER END, NO TAIL OR TRAIN. HELD A 50 CENT PIECE UP AT ARM'S LENGTH, OBJECT APPEARED ON BOTH SIDES OF IT, ABOUT 200 FEET IN DIAMETER. NO SOUND. MOVED FROM NORTH TO WEST, STOPPED, BACKED UP OVER NEW SUDBURY JUST ABOVE THE HORIZON AND LOWER. FIRST NOTICED NEW HYDRO WIRES; DID NOT FOLLOW THEM. SEEN FOR TWO HOURS.

Canadian UFO Documents

Originally posted by Kiltedninja
Ockham's razor is a good philosophy on things of this sort.

Occam's razor is a useful tool...unless it gets lazily abused by pseudosceptics.

"UFO debunkers do not understand Occam's Razor, and they abuse it regularly. They think they understand it, but they don't.
What it means is that when several hypotheses of varying complexity can explain a set of observations with equal ability, the first one to be tested should be the one that invokes the fewest number of uncorroborated assumptions. If this simplest hypothesis is proven incorrect, the next simplest is chosen, and so forth.

But the skeptics forget two parts: the part regarding the test of the simpler hypotheses, and the part regarding explaining all of the observations. What a debunker will do is mutilate and butcher the observations until it can be "explained" by one of the simpler hypotheses, which is the inverse of the proper approach".

Brian Zeiler

SCEPCOP

Cheers.

yet another great post from you internos strange how the people who saw the red light said it sort of became part of the Helli whilst an object gave off a green light that engulfed the Helli ( my words not there's )

sounds like it was scanning the helli and life forms maybe? green is always such a common colour associated with these craft, there must be a reason?

on a more personal note the only UFO i ever witnessed was also a green ball of light, out in the middle of the countryside, really bright!

it was not a flare or a firework and i saw it cover a good few miles and carry on into the distance out of view so ball lightning is a no no too.no noise and not attached to a platform ( it was no plane ) and it was no meteor, the path it took was wrong! it stayed same hight and same level.

i dont know what it was! so as far as i'm concerned it was a UFO.

wow an old post i missed glad it re appeard. (edit)

[edit on 12/3/2010 by stealthyaroura]

This happened about an hour from me, yet have never heard of this incident. Good find internos! Very interesting that it was a cigar shaped craft. These craft seem to have been sighted more frequently in the 1800s to early 1900s so perhaps which ever species control these have returned again for whatever reason.