posters with disabled family / friends

I've just been watching "Threads" and it got me wondering about those folks who have crippled family and friends and what provisions (if any?) you have made for them?

I don't want this to turn into a moralistic thread, and I'm not interested in the discussion of equal opportunities as its nothing to do with that. It's about pure unadulterated survival (of the fittest?)

I'm in a position where I don't know any disabled people so it's an open and close case for me, and even if I did have family with additional caring requirements I'd have to consider the long term implications of survival and their condition. I'd expect my family and friends to do the same to me if I were ever to become a burden. I practice what I preach in other words.

but I'm interested in what you guys are planning...

Thanks...

and before I get slagged off!! I just want to point out this is not a posting with any prejudice in mind, but a viable topic in the event of SitX. If your going to post about the morals of the question I posed, then please save yourself and the readers the time!

Hello
I am partially disabled. I have mobility but limited.My legs are the issue.
I am somewhat knowledgable in survival skills.
My family is my bigest issue, as they seem to be oblivious to the probability of impending danger.
My son refuses to listen at all..."Don't talk to me about it. Idon't believe it"
My daughter seem to listen, makes a couple of coments but is very uninterested and my grandson is to young to comprehend whats going on.

I have a plan and a small amount ready but I need their help if we are to be healthy, sheltered etc...

I am very frustrated with them.
I know that when the time comes they will panic and will not know what to do.

reply to post by azureskys


thanks for your reply and not taking offence! (none was intended!)

so how do your preparations differ ? would you be relying upon your BOV so have additional fuel stored ? or would you try and slog it out? would you take more of a command role, or try and do things that are necessary but less strenuous (eg. food prep, water sterilisation, tending to vegetable gardens etc)

One of the main areas I am interested in is the psychology of survival and how having one member unable to contribute to the group would affect the changes in the mental state of the others if you get me? and the long term survival of everybody.

It is a moral and ethical issue. If I had a family member that was disabled etc. I would plan accordingly. I would not could not leave them to the wolves.

This will become more important as we all get older. What do you do about critical medications etc? You plan, plan, plan, stockpile, and then plan some more.

My husband and I were just talking about this our good friend is for the most part confined to his wheel chair.

He is very independent and set in his ways. He is such a skeptic no one can tell him anything he already has it all figured out.

He has family close by but the real issue is he has taken some pretty heavy pain meds for a number of years and if he could no longer get his meds I don't know if his body could handle abrupt withdrawal.

He has always been one to take charge of his life and I'm sure he will continue to do so no matter what anyone else says. He chooses small town life and has a good circle of friends & family.

You know when it comes down to it people have a fierce will to survive often not seen by the civilized people of the west. If you look to third world countries often you will find people with horrific injuries and disabilities. Often left untreated some of these individuals eventually die. Others do not. They will innovate methods to get around and accomplish amazing things in horrid third world conditions. No human can be written off based on the physical alone. The decision would have to be based on their adaptability and their desire or need to survive.

I can think of a few people who have fully functioning bodies who I would consider a burden.



[edit on 6-11-2008 by Morningglory]

Originally posted by Morningglory
I can think of a few people who have fully functioning bodies who I would consider a burden.

thanks for posting

I defiantly agree with this statement! my question was more poised at the types of preparations and the psychological effects... I mean how would you hypothesise the effect of having to work extra to feed the person / people whom cant look after themselves ? would you expect them to contribute in other ways ? what about those that cant ?

in your plans how or have you accommodated for your friend ? if he is dependant on his med's when they run out what effects will it have on the other members watching him degrade physically and have a slow painful

I am disabled in a different kind of way. I have brain damage due to a trauma at birth.

My mind works great but the signals to my body short circuit. I walk and talk normal but when I need to multitask things go wrong. I can't drive a car for instance because it's to many things at once (watching the road, minding the speed, watching the mirrors etc). I also have tremendous trouble with regular every day things. I put my clothes on backwards etc.

This makes me very slow and not the perfect buddy for any body's survival group. I have given several scenario's some thought and have spent time learning usefull skills. I can stitch wounds and set small fractures, I have learned to make meds out of common plants, and I've learned how to clean fish and other animals for foodprep. But I can't make myself do anything fast.

If I can find a quite countryhouse or something. Even a tent or a handmade shelter would do. Than my chances of survival are just like anybody normal. I can make my own fire, I know how to get clean water etc.

The thing is when we need to run it will be difficult. Living on the run is a situation that would show my disablety at it's worst. And I don't know how I would have to proceed in such a situation.

For the persons in wheelchairs I have a tip though, trie to learn horsebackriding. It will require a person to help you up and of the horse but when you are on it you can move at the same speed they can. At a slow pace you can ride the horse for hours before it will get tired. Also horses don't require gasoline so it is a fairly considarable good means of transport during emergency times. In addition they can also carry your luggage.

reply to post by IntoTheVortex

He would not require much more than anyone else in that situation he is pretty healthy it's just the pain meds. Maybe I should consider growing poppies I think it's a certain variety that they derive opium from but not sure which.

My mother-in-law grew up in Yugoslavia she said mothers would pick poppy seed pods and boil them with milk and give it to teething fussy babies. She said it would settle them right down. OMG I guess so. Now for the disclaimer: In no way do I advocate this without consulting a doctor.

Our friend is the type of person who would insist on pitching in and doing his share. I could find a million things for him to do. You eat you work.

reply to post by Morningglory


All poppies containt the same, painkilling, chemical. But the big ones you can cut open (at the top there's a sphere like shape, you cut it there) after blossoming. A milky substance will come out, and it's very strong stuff. You need to experiment on the doses but that is in essence what you need. The small onces have this substance to but it is more effective to use their seeds.

sorry to hear that ambush, but I should imagine learning new things also helps your brain? (creating new neurons etc) and glad that it's not stopping you thinking about the possible scenarios, and learning how to cope. Do you require med's or is it a stable condition?

@morning, hehe yea and you could pretty much rule the desolate waste lands with your home made drugs! "you eat you work" is pretty much what I was aiming at, without trying to lead posts in a certain direction.

by the sounds of things ambush your better prepared than a lot of people I know, and more willing to learn. And to be honest from what you've described I don't think it would be much of a burden.

this is the exact type of discussion I was hoping for! thanks guys!

What about those whom aren't able bodied ? say paraplegics, quadriplegics, MS or other degenerative conditions ? would you put up with a loss of man hours for the sake of your conscience ? or would you be objective and put the needs of the many first?

think of it as a modified 6 people but you can only choose 5 to get into the bunker kind of scenario.

reply to post by ambushrocks

I would say you are already doing better than most when it comes to survival skills. I would think you would have as good a chance as anyone else.

As far as the horse idea I'll mention it to our friend I know the look he'll give me. Horses are too needy too much food and water. I'm thinking goat cart at least you can get milk in return. He'll like that idea even better.

I wish you all the best. It would do us all some good to face up to our weaknesses and take action as you have by learning to compensate for them and excelling in areas where we can.

Maybe you would not be the best at life on the run but neither would be the pregnant woman or the 4 or 5 year old or the 75 year old or the lazy a## that never did a thing their whole life. If you're in a group of people it will be a mixed group some might be injured etc. it will be humanity that keeps people together.

reply to post by IntoTheVortex

As far as a loss of man hours I don't think that would necessarily be the case our friend is a paraplegic he tends a garden once planted, he could cook, tend the fire, clean ashes that someone else could throw, watch kids, do the sewing etc.

You know in primitive societies all people were given tasks based on ability. Those less able did the easier more mundane tasks freeing up those more able allowing them to concentrate on skills that could greatly benefit the group. I think it could work well.

As far as having to choose 5 out of 6 people I think we could squeeze in one more. It would have to be more like an extra 5 or more showing up and then it would depend on what they could bring to the table as far as skills or resources. It would be hard to turn people away but it would get to a point where you would have to.

It's a sad situation,sometimes you see how people truly are,I was severly injured as a result I went from grossing 3000 a week to 860 a week disability,end result my wife left and left me to raise 4 kids,a 2 yr old,4 yr old,10 and 12 yr old,as the years went by after her failed affair with supposed millionare tried getting back in kids life,to this day they have little respect for her,on the other hand me and kids did well,I used to be very active,baseball fixing up cars etc,now I can't after surgery for broken neck,but what can you do,does no good feeling sorry for yourself,now if I see a disabled person I'll be the first to ask if I can help,I tend to see others in a different way,so if you see someone disabled having a hard time help them make you feel better and maybe make their day as well

There was a time when Eskimos would realize they were no longer beneficial for their community, and set themselves adrift on an ice flow.

Its a harsh stance to say, I'm sorry, but for the betterment and longevity of mankind, I'm leaving you behind.

I dont have family who are disabled, I do have some friends who are. I treat them the same as I do everyone else. If they are working to prepare themselves, I will help them if I can. If they are not, its too bad, but I will not welcome them.

If you cant try to take care of yourself now, when things are relatively easy, come sit-x when everything is hard, these people, disabled or not, will be nothing but a burden.

With that said, I would prefer to help someone who is in a wheelchair who attempted to educate others as to whats going on and prepare in any way they could over a 20 something who is lost without their blackberry.

Wow...i have never seen this topic addressed and I was actually pulling up the board to post this question.

So many here talk about situation x and fleeing to the wilderness. Are they just going to abandon everyone in their household or family that cannot keep up? Or do they simply not have anyone in that position?

It is not just about "disabled"...

What about elderly and infirm that can't walk long distances?

What about asthmatics? No meds, they won't fair to well.

What about diabetics? Without refrigerated insulin they will start dying pretty quick.

What about pets? Sure some are able to keep up with their owners, but many could not.

There are a lot of different scenarios where individuals could NOT travel long distances, or where a lack of modern drugs would make them a liability, or simply kill them off.

I personally would not even consider leaving fragile household members behind, but I do wonder what others think (or if they think) about the realities of fleeing to live off the grid.

My mommy, little brother, and I care for our grandmother (moms mommy) who has Alzheimer's and dementia and requires a wheel chair and complete assistance. She eats less than anyone else in the family, as she has diabetes as well and requires specific meals I currently am getting from meals on wheels.
My preparations include large bags of various beans and rices, dried meats, dried fruits, canned provisions, MRE's, and plenty of water. As for her medication, hopefully she can do without, I dont see how I could get her the meds she "needs". I guess I could either get them in mexico at the rist of jail, or I could tell her doc Im expecting planet x or alex jones's end game, or even the rapture and ask for some extra, but I doubt that will fly.

If the situation is one where we need to be mobile, that would cause some serious problems as we only own a Camry and a currently non working Thunderbird. I love my grandma and all, but seriously, its sad to watch her in this state, and it may seem mean but she would be better off in heaven with grandpa or whatever. Ever since grandpa dies granny lost contact with reality. I think she is already with him. I know if I was that old and in the same position, I would tell my kids and grandchildren its been a swell visit, but leave me to the pyroclastic flows, MP's or whatever the sit-x may be.
I would make all possible efforts to bring her along of course, but Im hoping and praying I'll be able to board up my house, booby trap my neighborhood, and use the jackhammer and shovels to dig ourself a bunker under the living room carpet.
Perhaps I should start digging...

Sonya, as usual, another good post from you. There are alot of variables that play into this. My first thought isnt the disabled, or even the elderly. But people with new borns. I think that would be the hardest come sit-x.

I have seen this brought up in other threads, and would say that in the worst of times, it will become survival of the fittest. People who need nitro to stay alive, simply wont have the resourses to take care of themselves. I could even see the possibility of "mercy" killings, as sad as that is.

Yes, there are alot of people here who would simply grab the BOB and run off into the woods. Its easy for anyone to say that. How many would abandon their families/friends? How many would actually do it and succeed? Hard to tell, there are some posters here who could easily do it. As for society at large, most would curl up into a ball until they were killed or joined a marauding gang.

The idea is something I have harped on since joining this site, be prepared. Think ahead. This goes for people you care about who are disabled, young, old, on meds, etc...

Those who plan ahead and have stashes in the hills or cabins built or who think they can ride it out in their house need to think beyond buying guns, food and water. After the nessesities are met, we must look toward longevity.

Originally posted by salchanra
Sonya, as usual, another good post from you. There are alot of variables that play into this. My first thought isnt the disabled, or even the elderly. But people with new borns. I think that would be the hardest come sit-x.

Thank you for the kind words.

I would expect newborns to fair fairely well, though their mothers would certainly be limited. Newborns are actually pretty resilent especially if on mothers milk (except that noise could be a problemin hostile situations).

Now toddlers, or other young children, that would be a whole other issue. Ability to travel, nutritional requirements, being able to stay silent when necessary, disease risk. Lots of issues there. Infant/child mortality rates would surely go way up again.

some pretty interesting responses so far! thanks everyone!

it's good to see how people would adapt to take care of their loved ones, but I think I'm with slach on this one. Needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. Of course I wont really know what I'll do until the situation arises.

Long term illnesses like asthma and diabetes, liver disorders etc can be controlled quite successfully with changes in life style. The body can adapt quite well so lifestyle ailments as I call them wouldn't be much of a concern, especially a lot of the drugs used to control them can be replicated from plants etc.

Its more of those that require care, for instance my gramp's before he died had had a stroke so went from being a strong 86 year old to requiring constant care which being the loyal grandson I was, undertook without question.(and it was hard work believe me! hardest thing I've ever had to do in fact!) so having had that sort of experience I know the toll it would take to looking after a person, hunting/gathering, creating shelter and protection.... I just don't think a person would be able to cope with the additional stress of a survival situation too.

My dad is a quadriplegic and I think about this all the time.

I have no idea what I would do for him in a sit-x scenario. What I've really been worrying about lately is the more realistic possibility of a complete economic collapse. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars a year just to keep my dad alive and I just cant think of anything I could do to save him in that kind of situation.

It's pretty depressing and it just gets worse every day as I watch the stock markets dive more and more