There is no "God". Just thoughtforms and imagination.

So why exactly do us humans (In all walks of life) consider there is a god? Someone that Not only watches over us, yet the billions upon billions of worlds, vast space, galaxies, universes and all. If you were a being that conjured up worlds upon worlds, unlimited space and not only that, but molecules, bacteria and etc etc... Why would you even BOTHER focusing your attention upon just one our of many billions of habited worlds in the huge wide nothingness that we call space.

Yes it makes us feel really good when we 'think' we have some almighty being that we can call god helping us with our dull, almost insignificant lives. See those hundreds of insects that get caught up from a few webs just because you accidently left the outside light on? But wait, they are just insects, not humans so they DO NOT HAVE SOULS right? Or in some newer thinking, their part of a 'multi-soul', where many occupy the same soul, and are practically just souless, unthinking machines.

I am so glad I am considered 'human', so therefore I will not thrown into some weird bucket of thinking, that states only humans have souls... Dogs just as robots, will perish and never exist again.. (Doggy heaven? NOPE! *Buzzer* wrong).

What is funny is how the Churches of these worlds, read from a book that is subject to whoever is 're-writing, keeping it in existances' whim. I mean if I wrote my favorite book, yet hated certain portions, would I keep them intact? Well, it would be a bit hard, yet once I 'edited' it, who cares? I will die eventually, yet my own thoughts for human existance remain.

But guys, next to me is an invisble dog, thats godly and can create/destroy life. I name him Bingo. Just like 'GOD', you cannot see, touch, smell, feel, lick (Yes I am quite sure just like dogs, people would love to lick for taste, a god), And etc...

So why do you guys not believe my invisible dog, that you cannot sense with your senses, isn't real? Ok now reverse Dog, for God... And pretend I never stated anything about a Dog, but God instead.

End of that part.

Next: So how can a God that is forgiving, loving and the embodiment of total Love, care and etc.... Allow poor innocent people to lead the most degrading, humiliation, and totally wretched existances... But hey its the luck of the draw right? That billionaire believes in God because he has amassed or inherited a fortune... While that poor street dwelling citizen must not... Or is it because you can only believe in something that you will never 'taste' with your senses for so long, before you give up.

Ok I gotta go, my invisible dog keeps invisibly licking my bare feet, omg its irritating.

Also another thing... God fearing dwellers that is... Why can they believe in an entity which creates all, somehow writes a book (Bible, koran, etc... Im not that well versed in the books god writes down in his spare time), and etc... Yet refuse to believe there is ANY other lifeforms in the entire billions upon billions upon trillions of worlds out there.

Its kind of like spilling a ton of those sprinkle cake topping, and yet pointing to only one, and saying.... Ok that sprinkle is the ONLY one that can, and will contain life. The rest are just insignificant. I mean, sure without proof, no one can or will believe you... But thats just how this god thing is. Yes I was quite the believer in my days, however after reading such tragedies, problems with the world, a HUGE amount of conspiracies... It just amazes me at how shallow the average god fearer is...

Hey yes thats right, why would you fear something which could not affect you when you die? I do not fear snails when I die... As a ex-christian, I feared God because of HELL!... Hell, is that one place where I was told for one tiny error in your life, you would be eternally damned forever. Sounds quite fair right? At one point in your 1 to 100+ years, if you stepped out of line... The DEVIL would 'take' your soul, and cause unbelievable pain and suffering.. Oh yay!.

I certainly wish to worship a god, or entity to which I never ever have honestly seen, felt or etc apart from in movies, and 'stories' in books which seem to change to better suit the times at whim.

"My people will destroy/obliterate you all, in the NAME OF GOD!'...

How about "MY people will destroy/obliterate you in the name of DOG!'... My invisible dog that no one can see, feel, taste, sense etc... Could be as real as the 'thought form', that many believe and create from may be just thinking of it.

I remember in church, this aged old guy... He was in my opinion a total lunatic. He would go to every new comer, and ask things along the lines of "How do you know you worship god, and not the devil!". That was just one of the best sayings from him.

At first, I responded "Huh, well, my parents were christians, and I am a christian. I believe in the Lord, Jesus..." and I went on, the more I talked, the more I hated that guy, for being such a total retard. I mean, who is HE to question what I have grown up with, for all my knowing life.. Worshiping God and Jesus, and yet he thinks I could be a DEVIL worshiper?...

Fortunately despite wanting, I didn't round house kick him like Chuck Norris would of. (Honestly to question MY beliefs, just coz he was an old fart and thought he was some all knowing person, and he was just like me, someone who attended and wasn't the pastor/priest or whatever they call themselves.

(EDITED FOR GRAMMAR).

[edit on 5-11-2008 by MereMugglePop]

Good luck with changing anyone's mind. I've found that people who believe in these fairy tales have a deep-seated psychological need to cling to this belief, and no matter how rational the argument presented, they will deny it because it doesn't mesh with their worldview. People pretty much believe what they believe, with some exceptions, because it's how they were raised. The thinkers among us can see past the lies and manipulation of religion and understand how it is merely a tool for the control of the masses, but most of the population is hopelessly deluded into believing a bunch of hokey superstitious nonsense.

Well I know that most Christians lead happy lives, and it never hurts really to have faith I guess.. I mean if your wrong, its not like you never knew it was coming. Also if your right, and were good... Eternal damnation forgotten.

I am honestly sorry if people think im trying to change their beliefs or faiths, but I am just trying to get off my chest that honestly how can anyone be absolutely sure of what happens at the end!?

I do believe there is a creator, however honestly the mere thought that we are just one of many and 'insignificant' in the view of this creator totally would flip any sane believer of a god.

Don't get me wrong, I honestly abhor the fact 'humans' have created books that they themselves wrote, to better themselves, or their class in order to be superior to everyone else... Was it a peasant that wrote/changed the bible to suit themselves? Nope... It was someone with alot of power, and the ability to distribute/teach those 'their' way, and not the way that any peace loving entity would every want.

I mean war has to be the most degraded and horrible thing to ever exist, yet humans are practically taught in all walks of life to hate certain races/people and sometimes even color.

There is so much of this, yet I can only really talk about the tip of the iceberg since it would take vast amounts of my time to even talk about this. I never did say I am right, or wrong... These are just my beliefs, your all welcome to your own and I will never insult or degrade anyone for their opinions.

It's a shame and sad when one doesn't believe in God. You should watch this video of a very wise man named Chaplin Yusuf Estes, he challenges Scientiest and non-God believers to prove that there is no God. He's a very entertaining speaker, and knows his stuff!

Here is a part 2 video out of 5 parts, if you have a few minutes to spare, please watch what he has to say..

www.youtube.com...

Armin, I am watching that video now, ill edit this to comment on it

(But before I watch it, I will refer to my invisible dog that is a god, and creates worlds and life with each pant), ok anyway ill comment. But hey I do believe in a creator, btw, however I do not believe that this creator is something that damns people to eternal damnation for 1 single (While most sins require punishment I do agree, unlimited damnation with utmost pain, in a fiery place infested with demons, bad souls is NOT fair right?).

I agree the creator did make this, I mean honestly there must be some eternal mighty god like being who created this playground, however I do feel that certain books were created to create fear and force people to obey.

Just think for a second, and I am just merely human, and can err at any and every time I do something, yet maybe we are just like those ants that the kids with the magnifying glasses have... They can be gods, and cause pain, and eventually death with just a focused ray of the sun. We are quite primitive in terms of what could be in the multitude of worlds/galaxies/universes etc. We may not be even worthy of being even looked at apart from a glance.

Anyway sorry to blabber on, ill watch the vid now. The guy looks quite nice in the white holy clothing .

EDIT: Coming soon to comment.

TO ARMIN:

Lot of hand movements
Microphone has 'peace' written on it...?
This guy has a fasination with monkeys, and how we 'could' of been evolved from them, despite that its not a real proven theory, and alot of talk states aliens could of even advanced us... Been our "Gods".
He looks like he was a missionary, and must be quite adept at making non-believers become believers.

States things such as "can you prove your here right now, can you prove you exist?"... Which has actually NO resemblance to knowing if something you get told about "Christianity/religion etc" even exists too.

As for the Chicken and the Egg statement, of course the chicken came first, since it evolved from the tiny single cell organism into a creature which layed eggs... Its just a silly statement which people unfortuantly keep repeating in some vain attempt at trying to prove things that cannot be proven.

He asks if any believers (christian) and yet... No one talks, and so he states the imaginary person's thoughts... Which fortuantly are exactly what he wanted. Then he states about the bad things in life, and that is it 'his gods fault, and how he sprouted evil', and it goes on from there, and how that this imaginary guy states 'the devil made evil'...

Anyway its quite amazing how this imaginary guy who somehow is talking to the missionary is asking the exact questions, and getting the exact answers that this guy is supposed to hear and talk about... (Also he is saying now.... That the other guys 'God, is a different God, to his or something "SO there is two gods? Despite just being told by this imaginary guy, who the bearded white clothed guy can somehow speak for, and also his own self!. Amazing... I think this is what is called Propaganda, since I never once also heard any of the audiance cheer, mumble or even fart.

He laughs at "Muslims", as if its a funny joke.. And keeps on doing it. I admit he is a incredibly GOOD MISSIONARY. Thats about it.

he challenges Scientiest and non-God believers to prove that there is no God. He's a very entertaining speaker, and knows his stuff!

Well from the audience, it appears hes a missionary, and trying to convert the current audience... The fact he laughs and jokes at his own mention of 'Muslim' shows his true colors.

au.youtube.com...

is the link.


[edit on 5-11-2008 by MereMugglePop]

I know it seems to you that you've just split the atom

but you seem to have confused your interpretation of God with that of everyone else

You also appear to assume that others have given absolutely no thought to the issue and all worship a standardised, personal god-figure .. the same god-figure which you have -- with penetrating insight -- uncovered and debunked.

Basically, you appear to believe that millions of people are clueless, lack imagination, lack spirituality and are cardboard cut-outs ripe and just waiting for the truth to be delivered to them on an open, online forum by someone they don't know who's posted a provocatively titled thread.

Horrible mistakes can teach a wonderfull lesson. The very fact that in the infinite pissiblitys of reality that THIS here around us even exists is proof of some resonance or design. In this design we can easiliy see (if we choose to) how our actions effect and cascade through time.

Its not the perfection of the physical that is important. Its your desire and intentions towards life. If you have a pure/holy spirit in your desires for knowledge and wisdom then not only shall you seek it in your desire but you will hold on to every crumb not just for your sake but for others.

There are people out there dispensing wisdom to help you avoid pain. if you have no ability to decern what is pure/holy then you can not have faith in it. You cannot learn from things that you have no faith in. In that lack of faith there is no desire for implimentation of that wisdom into your own life.

With my pure desire i can see it in others and in the way they speak. From that prespective it is easy to see and have faith in those words and by doing so avoid pain of consequence. i have chosen to read everything and allow these trillions to become my one and that pure intention to guide me.

reply to post by Dock6


Well, I guess you summed up me entirely, except the online forum thing. The bible is what I was thinking really. I am probably being aggressive at this, but am I wrong or right? I refuse to base my life around a book which has been edit'd, warped and changed to whatever the current lifestyle of the average person is.

Have you personally 'felt' any God(s) presence enrich your life? Sure going to a church gives you that eerie "Woosh" feeling, and every time I go to step inside one I wonder if I will burst into flames or not... (My parents were Christians), no need for me to add on since my personnel life is not what im discussing.

It is inevitible that a collection of individuals who die in a short period of time would begin collecting their most profound and usefull priniciples and thoughts. Why could it not be possible that this is all a natural progression.
If you choose not to look for lessons and wisdom and then through faith in them explore their principles then pain is all that you will know in education. Everyone deserves a chance to avoid the pain of fumbling around in the dark, but that would require faith in somone elses experiances. "seek and you shall find" "knock and the door will be open to you"

Im glad that you are here to talk about it, but remeber that fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.........

If you liken your body to the created universe and your mind to god. You can get some Idea about the relation ship between god and its creation. You have many cells in your body but are not consciously aware of each of them all the time. Each part of our body and it functions are automatic and work without us having to pay attention to them most of the time.

AS ABOVE, SO BELOW

The micro-cosum is a reflection Macro-cosum
The universe exist in the mind of the all.

reply to post by Wertdagf


Awesome, are you a prophet or soothsayer? Because those words just do not fit the molding of this world atm. I watched 10000BC and that lady (I forget what she was) but she had some nice soothsayer abilities.

Honestly if everyone was like you the world would be a MUCH better place!

But unfortunately we have wars over silly things atm... OIL!? Oil, its a resource which has tainted our lives, and every single 'alternative free energy' has resulted in threats, or buyouts in order to supress them in order for the billionaire companies to profit from these resources.

We have poor people in the world subject to the utmost harshest of conditions and despite the wanting to help thinking of alot of people, we do not have much of a voice... Its the Governments who decide where to administer aid/supplies etc to these poor folk who unfortunately weren't born in a different country

Sure thats just speculation on the free energy thing, however from what ive read and a few things ive seen its just quite a farce that we are still stuck in the oil/coal and etc era despite many years and huge scientific improvements going on.

But if I was an oil company director or etc, with billions at my disposal... Would I allow an energy source which would totally leave me obsolete? No way!..

Peace and Love to every being on Earth since at least thats better than the all too common warcry the governments do eh.

reply to post by rken2


Yeah I got all these cells and all, but for years I was a sheeple, and watched the tv programs, news and etc so im quite dumbed down atm. I learnt nothing in school because they only teach you basics, so what can I do? The only learning I can do now is online, since schooling never taught me how to be spiritual, or love people of different creeds, races or etc... No they taught me things that will never help me learn spiritually, or mentally to a great degree.

The internet is probably the best learning resource we have for now, which is in a way fine, since we actually have at least ONE thing to learn with.

the goal of knowledge is for you to understand and gain a pure/holy spirit through which all wisdom is dicernable. That pure/holy spirit is the what connects us to infinity. The father, the son, and the holy spirit. They are all one in the same.

I love even if i am hurt, because in my ignorance i have hurt others. I have made many mistakes, but with that pure desire for truth you can see the beauty in the struggle.

reply to post by MereMugglePop

It's easy, when religion has been a dominant part of your life, to confuse religion with God. However you have obviously got past that and realized God did not create religion, Man did. Religions grow or are made for all sorts of reasons, and have often been a tool for evil.

Having had experiences which prove the existence of a spiritual plane which is every bit as real as this one, but not being able to take the dogma I was brought up with seriously, I've a very simple explanation for our existence.

God got bored and lonely, sitting all alone without even a belly-button to contemplate, so he found a way to entertain himself. He, (I could just as well say she or it, as gender is inapplicable here,) found a way to become a universe, and to become all of the lifeforms in it. He also exists outside the world, as an infinite being cannot be confined by what we perceive as reality.

This explains the problems of evil and suffering. Would you want to play a MMORPG in which everything was rosy, there were no bad guys, and everyone lived happily ever after? It would be a real pain.

If this is true, and the universe is all one being, it should be possible for one thing in it to affect another at a huge distance, instantaneously. This has been found to occur with entwined electrons.

So keep praying to your invisible dog, or even to your visible cat.

Anything you imagine acquires a degree of reality.
All reality is a part of god.
God is infinite.
Any fraction of infinity is also infinite.

Some needs get fulfilled, and some questions answered, regardless of who or what you turn to.

reply to post by Kailassa


Nice, and to the point. I agree that life needs its challenges, there would be absolutely no reason to live if everything was rosy and peachy. You summed it up with the religion bit, which alot will probably disagree with, except me. Honestly I don't want to dissuade people from their religion, but unfortunately I think I am continuing to do so at the moment.

I guess as my years get on, the cup just takes alot more to fill (Especially when you get near ATS lol).

Anyway gotta sleep, ill be back later.

reply to post by Kailassa


Hey wow! It seems a small world after all. Your from Ferntree Gully! I used to live in Belgrave, then Upwey and Ferntree Gully before Cranbourne.

Hello Fellow Aussie then Anyway just a realization, and nothing really to do with this thread so a bit OT.

reply to post by MereMugglePop
I guess we Aussies must be a bunch of questioners.
I've found far more of us here than at any other site online.
Glad to meet you.

Originally posted by MereMugglePop
reply to post by rken2

 

Yeah I got all these cells and all, but for years I was a sheeple, and watched the tv programs, news and etc so im quite dumbed down atm. I learnt nothing in school because they only teach you basics, so what can I do? The only learning I can do now is online, since schooling never taught me how to be spiritual, or love people of different creeds, races or etc... No they taught me things that will never help me learn spiritually, or mentally to a great degree.

The internet is probably the best learning resource we have for now, which is in a way fine, since we actually have at least ONE thing to learn with.

Yes I know the feeling. I lost all interest in learning while in the system. They teach what they want you to know and train you how to be a good sheeple as you say. You don't have to do anything to be spiritual thats what you are. The problem is all the programing that says your not. They don't teach you in school how to think or understand oneself. To bad the world could be such a wonderful place. S&S