How can we be certain that the 1% of UFO reports that cant be explained are not military?

Ok, just playing the skeptic for the moment,

I've read these boards for a couple of years and fairly well read in the UFO area for the past 20 years and just wondering is there any REAL proof that what people are experiencing is not simply military technology?

Lots of hearsay, stories, second and third hand reports of alien technology, recovered discs etc etc, but without knowing what exactly the military has up its sleeve how can anyone be certain that any of it has anything to do with aliens. Is there even a single case (not hearsay) that proves beyond any doubt that it isnt military tech?

What is more feasible a) miltary testing new weapons etc and covering it with UFO stories or b) greys etc visiting us

As I say, playing the skeptic for a moment......

POS

The answer to that question is who knows? It depends on what you require as proof, pos: this is one that could go either way, for we don't have either a crashed craft that is e.t. or military to look at, and until we do, it is a matter of conjecture or belief.

The objects I have personally observed could be either one, so who knows? Not us.

seeker

[edit on 11/5/2008 by the seeker_713g]

[edit on 11/5/2008 by the seeker_713g]

Had no idea this was a game, but I'll play.
I won't even ask you where you got that 1% thingy but whatever.
So you're saying, in the last 20 years... Then I'll ask about the 1947 incident and all the previous traces, even when our only tools were fingers, sticks, brushes...

Well, I think we got a case of egg and chicken here.
If the military reverse engineered recovered craft, If somehow, aliens stopped visiting in the last 20 years, then maybe your supposition would have value.

I just can't believe the hypothesis where the army would have such tech and no aliens existed at all.

In all human history, whenever some tribe had a technical advantage over an ennemy, they used it, be it iron, horses, black powder, you name it...

Hiroshima + Nagasaki ring a bell ?

And even then, let's say you somehow manage to debunk everything, say antic painters were hippies, photos fake, vids cgi, and how convenient, you put the last undesirables in the black projects basket ; that still won't satisfy me.

The aliens just could be so advanced, so smart that no one could ever detect them.

And by the way, don't try to debunk only ufos, if you want to completely debunk it, you got to go debunk telepathy, psychokinesis, angels, demons, ghosts, alternate realities, time travel, FTL travel, parallel universes, black holes, wormholes, stargates, mediums, channeling, astral travel, chakras, auras... getting tired...

No, but seriously, now that you're at it, tell me :
What makes the subject of ufos so special to skeptics ?
I just can't help but notice that this kind of stuff only takes place in this section of ATS.
Someone comes with a theory, report, story and someone will pick it within 10 minutes and jump his throat.
Just have a look at other sections, i.e. religion, paranormal. It's nothing like the ufo subject.
This is such a special, sensitive subject, I'd like to see some skeptics take a step back and think about it for a while.
Why would they deny visits from other planets and go along with women coming out of ribs, precogs, chinese/energy hoodoo, you name it.

It's just charriots of fire, charriots of fire.

reply to post by Chrysalis


This is a subject with many sceptics but it's also a subject with many believers, and being one of the most active ATS forums it's only natural that things are as we see them at the moment.

Also, it depends on the sceptic. In some cases I am not even aware of a thread about a UFO sighting but someone sends me a U2U to ask what I think or to ask me to enter the discussion, so in those cases I go there (gladly) because I was asked. In most cases I enter the discussion because I see things may have a different explanation that is being ignored or that is not getting enough weight, but I do the same (when I have the time) in other forums, like religion and paranormal.

And no, I do not believe in women coming out of ribs (hmmm, ribs... ) or many of the other things that are posted, while I am open to the possibility of many of them being possible.

PS: as a matter of fact, to be a real sceptic, I must accept the possibility that any one of those ideas, as strange as they are, can be possible, so I think that some are just more likely to be closer to the truth than others.


Answering the OP's question, I don't think we can, at least with the data we have.

Originally posted by pinchofsalt
Ok, just playing the skeptic for the moment,

I've read these boards for a couple of years and fairly well read in the UFO area for the past 20 years and just wondering is there any REAL proof that what people are experiencing is not simply military technology?

Lots of hearsay, stories, second and third hand reports of alien technology, recovered discs etc etc, but without knowing what exactly the military has up its sleeve how can anyone be certain that any of it has anything to do with aliens. Is there even a single case (not hearsay) that proves beyond any doubt that it isnt military tech?

What is more feasible a) miltary testing new weapons etc and covering it with UFO stories or b) greys etc visiting us

As I say, playing the skeptic for a moment......

POS

well...i doubt our governments had such technologies 60 years ago or 100 years ago..now maybe but not then..

space ships are described on many ancient works of art..why would anyone try and find another reason to explain these away...?...they are what they seem to be...alien craft.

[edit on 5-11-2008 by alienesque]

Originally posted by Chrysalis
In all human history, whenever some tribe had a technical advantage over an enemy, they used it, be it iron, horses, black powder, you name it...

Hiroshima + Nagasaki ring a bell ?

Agreed! If you've got it and you can use it to your advantage against an enemy, you do just that.

I'm not sure why people feel the need to believe that they have a special army of home grown Captain Picards just waiting to de-cloak and save the day from tyranny... however the secret government prefer to use them in psiops against their own people instead of the enemy. It's counter logical... but then again, the OP was only playing the devils advocate.

IRM

Originally posted by alienesque
space ships are described on many ancient world of art..why would anyone try and find another reason to explain these away...?...they are what they seem to be...alien craft.

Didn't you hear.....?

Using secret Stargate Technology hidden in Cheyenne Mountain, the NWO went back in time and planted fake evidence of UFO visitation in our ancient societies as a cover for the false flag holographic alien invasion slotted in for 2012!

Man, where have you been!

Anyway... I'm off to fold myself up a new tin foil hat... my super human brainwaves just tore a hole in this one. Can't have those G-Men tracking me down!

IRM

Well, and you must be quite documented about all this.
After all you got every week day on tv at 0.30 a documentary about ufo sightings.
You're in the country of Fatima, Sao Cipriano, Capa de Aço, and much much more.
Maybe trying to put an analogy where there isn't one, but, couldn't it be because there's so many documentation about the subject of ufos ?
People often get mad at experiencers saying they're out here trying to make a buck.
But there's also many books about magic, spirits, astral travel and such. But somehow they got labelled "occult" so they try stay out of sight as much as possible.
While the ufo subject beeing mostly about disclosure travels the river opposite direction.
The sao cipriano been a big sale over there for a long time and yet very little people know about it.

I think that it is possible that the 1 percent of unexplained UFO sightings that can't be explained may just be unknown military aircraft. Meanwhile, the other part of me still wants to believe that the just might be alien craft, too. But the first choice IS more likely. I say that without any proof, though.

And there lies the beauty of the paradox...

Just imagine for a moment that the hypothesis is true, that there is very advanced life forms out there visiting our planet. That their craft would be so formidable that our best tech couldn't scratch them...
Now, if the governments didn't want you to know, if they were affraid, if they didn't want to admit they were powerless,
That's exactly what they'd want you to think, that these ships are ours.
You read that many times, but just stop and think about it for a minute.
Isn't this a cool conspiracy ? I think there's a strange beauty about it.

You cannot know.

Then again...where is this 1% statistic coming from?

Who puts out this figure and what is the purpose of this absurdly low figure?

I would say the true figure is closer to 40%.

If you want to see UFO's, go out and stare at the night sky.

I see several a month while star gazing on clear nights. Not your round of the mill errant satellite or airplane.

Keep your eyes open for a bright (non blinking) light suddenly doing a 90 or 180 degree turn, suddenly disappearing, flying near or chasing a blinking airplane or does various speed accelerations or even simply appears out of nowhere.

I've even seen the famous Mexican daytime UFO swarms. (search youtube)

The true question, is not whether UFO's are real or exist; but are they ET or military?

reply to post by pinchofsalt
I am in agreement,I know that there are no actual aliens or extraterrestial beings and craft secretly cached away or actively in contact or abducting peoplel. This is what the Luciferian Conspirators would want you to believe and they have done a good job the past 60 years or so in convincing us and by decieving us ,Before our very eyes that what we are experiencing are contact or visits that (by the way DO NOT MAKE SENSE0. Our homes and dreams are invaded by 'beings ' that want to probe us and do medical experiments on us.Thus amassing of stories and anecdotes of such 'strange' goings on, and the sightings (I myself have seen a unexplained craft many years ago) and there is some vague reference creeping into the psyche of mankind that in a 'great moment' to divert global catastrophe These advanced and enlightened beings will make thier selves be known and introduce to us a Great big unified plan that will save the earth .After all evidence points to the existence of extra terrestials and almost every one has seen one flying across the sky mystery and all These kind of beliefs undermine our Judeo Christian belief systems.IT denounces the divinity of Christ thus being an anti christ . Please research Project Blue Beam. Read |The Book of Revelations chapter 13 verse 13.Wonder why 1)When the craft or ufo is moving in our atmosphere at speeds over 700 miles an hour Why do these craft not create a sonic boom?2)If these aliens are just watching and abducting why would they allow us to see them at all?Why would such advanced beings leave a population wondering and doubting and really be non sensical in behavior , what is the purpose of causing dissident and why don't they just announce what they are here for and ask of us what they need from here?Why does an apparent life force so far advanced it can engineer a craft that travels millions of light years on some yet 'unknown' propulsion ,and can sustain manuevers and acceleration of speeds that would kill any human, and create all this seemingly advanced technology,yet ,the enlightened 'aliens' have to go soethically low as to 'abduct' humans from their homes and do medical testing on them in some kind of Nazi, non consensual fashion?Why would an extremely advanced race from millions of light years away do that to a lower life form and in such a brutal tyrannical way? Why don't Diplomacy and Ethics advance or get better with these aliens? How is it that along with the ablility to create such a vehicle but leave the ethics diplomacy and morals concerning all life thatl. The ethics and diplomacy of this race have not advanced along with it's technological prowess.The ethics and morals are on par with how we were ,basically back to the time of Cave men? Our military and cia and other secret black ops out fit has been in possession of technology that has made thousands if not millions believe they have had an experience with Extraterrestials. This kind of trick gets our mind ready when they force down A New One World Order.SEE PROJECT BLUE BEAM Google that phrase too. THank you .

reply to post by pinchofsalt


I agree - though perhaps not with your estimated percentage.

By the same token, how can we be certain that the other 99% (or whatever it is) of sightings are not due to people confusing both common and not so common celestial phenomena?

All the evidence points to this, but most are so busy trying to convince other people that UFOs and aliens exist they completely overlook (or refuse to look) at this.

Personally, after having been here a while, the impression I have got from the UFO movement, is that it's mostly a case of the blind leading the blind...

reply to post by Chrysalis
Yes, there is a very beautiful paradox about it. They (the USGOV) would have to hint that they are ours. If they didn't and said that these 1 percenters were indeed alien craft, I think that there would be mass riots that the USGOV wouldn't be able to control, for one thing. There would be a mass panic. At least that's how I feel.

I don't think the military wants useless saucer craft that get stuck in the
air in their armory.

Saucers can be equipped with rays of various type, but no regular
armaments that explode under static electricity.

Google Video Link

That's why we can be sure without a doubt that they are real and nothing at all to with the Government, they didn't even know they were there themselves:-)

Proof is here and has been for over 8 years, this is just a whitewash.

OP watch the video above and think again, I certainly did!

Elf

simply not true....

according to british and french ufo files released...

around 15-25% of those cases are unexplained...or UFO



the 1% you mention is just not true

Here is an interesting theory. In Roswell new mexico a ship crashes, it gets on radio stations and the military even issues a statement about a crashed craft. The secret developement area of the military finds hears the stories going out about thier top secret craft that crashed, which prompts them to send out a clean up crew. The best way to cover it up is to make it look as if they are doing a horrible job of covering up an alien crash. After removing the real piolots bodies which is done under correct cover and replacing them with fake "alien bodies, they do a much worse job of hiding the removal of said alien remains and even allow som onlookers glimpses of these bodies. Knowing that an airforce officer knows the difference between a hard solid object and a weather ballon, they use the flimsy weather balloon story to help perpetuate a horrible cover up job, they are hoping that all of this comes out sooner than it did, but in the end it still has the same effect. There cover story is what the mass public sees as the cover up allowing them to go on there mery way with their top secret testing of "HOME GROWN" advanced technology.

Yes this means the secret areas of government are even more devious than some believe, but it is not har to fathom.

I know this is hard for some people to wrap thier minds around but micro processors are not back engineered alien tech. In the early 70's there were things called micro computers that anyone could build But many of thease together and shink them and you have todays microprocessors. My father used to build these things left and right when I was little. The original microcomputers wher not all that complex, but there were a bit on the large size, at least the ones built at home by hobbiests where but this just shows you this was not back engineered technology, it was just another logical step in the computer industry. My father worked around the larger computers as well and there was definately no backengineered tech involved here either.

The reason I bring any of this up is because this is what alot of people base there belief in the sightings on, they say sightings must be real because it is obvious we have been visited by the reversed tech. But if we as an advancing technology have invented this tech as the next step in our evolution this takes this assumption out of the equasion.

reply to post by C.H.U.D.


Blind leading the blind? What do you mean by that though? Do you think there are no UFOs... that some human, somewhere, can positively identify every single one? That they're ALL just airplanes, stars, and other such things? I mean, a large number are, but all...? Surely that's not what you're saying, right?

[edit on 6-11-2008 by GrayFox]

[edit on 6-11-2008 by GrayFox]