Science about to prove the existence of life outside of our planet?

reply to post by bloodsearch


Well I agree and can exactly where your coming from my friend, I have seen things with my own eyes on numerous occasions that I cannot explain, I know theres life outside our planet.

Why would any Scientist or Space agency want to cover up evidence for extraterrestial life? It would be the single most important discovery after evolution and would confirm that we are not alone in the universe that life is emergant if there are the right conditions as a lot of the scientific community now belive.
I find some of thes comments a tad paranoid - why get so het up on possible withheld information. At the end of the day a hell of a lot of data is available on the web and its up to you to scientifically work out if what you are seeing is life or just delusional. No scientist in there right mind is going to bandy around theorys of extraterrestial life until it has been proven 100%. Thus, This is why the Big Bang, Evolution, quantum mechanics ect ect are facts now as all parts of the theorys have been tested independantly. Until there is enough information/evidence from the various space probes we just don't know for sure if life was able to take foot on these other worlds. Historically scientist's who have had there theory's proven are very quick to publish and change public opinion. in some cases some scientist's have paid the price for this.
I used to be very interested in alternative Mars theorys, and i did agree with some of the authors that some of the cydona pictures did look like they had artificial structures. However ever since many other pictures have been taken and the structures are much more likely to be natrual.
JD Skipper has a site called Mars Anomalies where he is still trying to find signitures of life - But the amount of zooming and rezooming and calibrating he does he could make a city out of any mars rock or crater!

As usual it comes down to that favourite of Human traits - Faith!
Do you belive scientists who collect and test there data rigorously till they find proof?
Or do you belive Pesudo-Scientists/conspiracist's who only find what they want to find and post there theorys's on why mainstream scientists are "covering up"?

I don't agree with the OP that Science is withholding information from us mere mortals, i agree its possible but highly unlikely. He quoted the rumour that the White house had been briefed about the Phoenix lander detecting life. Howver since then it has been proven that the pheonix lander wasn't even designed to detect life and is incapable of doing so!

I think if they do discover life on another planet the information won't be withheld it will be available to all who want to look at the evidence and make up there own minds. Also the scientific community will have to provide a lot of proof to back up their claims. You could say that some proof is already out there as there do seem to be a lot of unusual potentail life signatures in the data we alraedy have. But at the moment there is not enough evidence to back up these claims and until then we can only speculate on this. But please don;t waste your energy with paranoid theorys about NASA, ESA, JSA ect ect "withholding information from the sheeple" its pointless and muddys the waters around real science. Far better you use your energy to look into this matter scientifically and try to ignore rumours and use evidence.

I think we will find something very soon, prehaps maybe in my lifetime. As a race we have discovered so many wonderful things about the universe and have now proven them. Its not taken many years to get from beliving the world was flat to knowing what the universe was like billionths of a second after the big bang . Don't you think that Life on another planet is going to be so easy its untrue we have the technology maybe we are not looking in the right places yet??





[edit on 4-11-2008 by oinkment]

reply to post by oinkment


You seem to have misinterpreted what I have said. I am not suggesting that Science is withholding information from the general public, nor do I believe that to be so.

Whenever I have discussed disclosure I have suggested the government could be withholding information. You don't believe every technological advance made by the U.S military is made public for all to see do you ? They also withhold information on the basis of national security. The UFO subject I believe could be part of that. All over the world we see secret documents on the subject being released. Documents that have been previously denied to even exist.

About the Phoenix lander, I know like many people on this forum that is proved to be false information and in fact was in relation to Perchlorate's. This was caused by speculation in the media. Since when did I suggest that Phoenix was able to detect life? I was only suggesting that we consider the reaction to the rumors and notice i said rumors, not facts. Phoenix can tell us alot about the viability of life both past and present. Detecting water on mars has to be one of the best discoveries this year.

The whole idea of this thread to discuss what breakthroughs science could be on the verge of making and what implications this could have. I want to bring science back in to the discussion on this forum because it is a beautiful subject that I love very much and I believe the science has alot to contribute to the subject of alien life.

You say that we can only speculate on this. Thats all we have been doing and I've been very careful to present the information in this manner.

You also suggest that quantum mechanics and the big bang theory are facts. Nothing is a fact in Science. So we have explained inflation fully and is now a fact ? That is just as bigger part of the theory as anything. Why should we build the LHC if we had all the facts when it comes to quantum mechanics. Science is about the search for truth through reason and experiment. More importantly it will adopt new ideas and remove any that do not work based on the strength of the evidence.

Again I started this thread to discuss the possibilities that we will find life on other planets or moons in the foreseeable future and I am presenting a argument that we will based on as many facts as I can.

The thing that sparked this idea off for me was the recent report out the other day speculating that Cassini may have already collected the data that would show that life exists elsewhere.

The Cassini probe may have already collected data that could reveal the presence of life on Saturn's moon Enceladus, a new study argues. But mission scientists say teasing out the subtle signature of life may prove difficult.

Newscientist< br />
The tone of your post seems arrogant and I hope that wasn't the intention. I'm sorry if I have given you the wrong impression but please re-read my main posts. Science and Physics in particular is one of my greatest passions. Please don't suggest otherwise.

It will be amazing if they find bacteria. Why? Because that will force everyone to recognize that UFO's is a viable subject and should be studied! I can't wait for the day!

Fantastic thread, bloodsearch, and great posts everybody. I personally find the possibilities being discussed particularly exciting, and far from 'boring'. In particular, that Titan has an atmosphere. This thread is a great example of what I came to ATS for in the first place - information that I previously hadn't come across, with links provided for further reading. Great work, bloodsearch, s&f.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Skipper1975

 

I do believe what bloodsearch is discussing here is realistic, scientific research.
Do not bring the content and quality down with your rubbish.
You can do that in your own thread in BTS

Totally agree with you Chadwickus!

Some people haven't the ability to discern between fact and fantasy. Apparently the GFL backlash hasn't dissuaded some from continuing to propagate fairy tales on this forum, even when it turned out bad for them previously. So.. when their threads get closed down, it appears their only other course of action is to troll their crap in the threads that are actually trying to advance the research into ET.

Ignoring these people post Oct 14th is the best course of action we can take. perhaps if we do they will dematerialize into fairy dust or something... here's to hoping eh!

IRM

reply to post by hStripe


i don't get it..what is it?

reply to post by mattpryor


might be how we got put on earth, if you think about it? haha. we are some other species experiment

Whether these other planets have life (albeit primitive forms) does not interest me anymore...

I want these scientists working on ways I can run my car off water so I can save some money for once.

Let's throw in anti-gravity technology as well.

Seriously - mankind has some -very- pressing problems and needs to be addressed before finding bacteria on other planets (and potentially risking mankind to new diseases). To put it into perspective how much money does your government invest in finding microbes on other planets compared with making your life easier here on earth (at a micro level such as car fuel, energy and power)?

Hmmm....

Originally posted by bloodsearch
reply to post by argentus

 

Thank you, there is so much to talk about, I'm certain life is out there.

But wouldn't it just SUCK, if they brought some back and it got out of containment and spread through airports and entered peoples bodies through inhalation and people could start feeling it crawl under their skin taking over their body, replacing their hair pore by pore moving around in their skull doing god knows what.. oozing out of their skin as moving clear filamentous organisms?

not to bring this thread down or anything...
but like..

Wouldn't that suck tho?

don't you think it would?

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[edit on 5-11-2008 by prevenge]

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
threads that are actually trying to advance the research into ET.

If you mean intelligent life...

I always see that proposition (humans investigating ET)...

as like.. a fishtank.. with a bunch of humans looking in...
and the genetically engineered designer test tube fish in the tank can't see out of the reflective glass sides..
so they're all talking about how they're investigating the possibility of something intelligent connected to the giant hand that drops the "mana" pellets into their tank.

we chuckle adoringly and bemused as those silly fishies busy themselves with said enterprise.

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reply to post by prevenge


Respectively, that is (in your own words) how you see it.

I use 'ET' as a blanket word for any type of life that is not terrestrial, (of Earth). I don't think it matters whether it's microbial or intelligent tool users. Even the proof of microbial life opens a whole new can of worms in respect to the frequency of which our galaxy may be populated in general - and the higher probability of 'advanced life' therein.

I don't quite get where your going with the fish tank metaphor. I think this is more closely aligned to your personal interpretation/perception than anything else. I can't say I identify with it in the slightest. Sounds more like a god complex mate!

IRM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
reply to post by prevenge

 

Respectively, that is (in your own words) how you see it.

I use 'ET' as a blanket word for any type of life that is not terrestrial, (of Earth). I don't think it matters whether it's microbial or intelligent tool users. Even the proof of microbial life opens a whole new can of worms in respect to the frequency of which our galaxy may be populated in general - and the higher probability of 'advanced life' therein.

I don't quite get where your going with the fish tank metaphor. I think this is more closely aligned to your personal interpretation/perception than anything else. I can't say I identify with it in the slightest. Sounds more like a god complex mate!

IRM

k i'll explain it to you like you're a 3 yr old.

the humans looking at the genetically engineered fish are representative of intelligent race that created humans.

the fish are representative of humans trying to investigate their creators.. but only thinking that they are little green men...having no clue about the real identity...


no god complex ... just it must be hilarious when you're watching from afar, your own creation try to be all lofty pondering if there are "any other intelligences out there"... while they have no clue that their own creator is the intelligence...and...

eeeh nevermind lol.

I thought it was amusing.. but nevermind.


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[edit on 5-11-2008 by prevenge]

reply to post by prevenge

k i'll explain it to you like you're a 3 yr old.

OK - without resorting to laughable, transparent, sand box tactics such as your 3 year old comment, let me rephrase my mine.

I understand your fish metaphor but I fail to see how it's applicable to the OP. Can you show me a quote in the OP where your 'hand of mana' 'search for the creator' rant is directly relative? Your merely creating your own subtext prevenge. The search for life is not necessarily tantamount to the search for a creator via the auspices of little green men.

If you want to argue with materials related to the OP, then I'm there - but I won't be baited into an immature flame war. Your simply not worth a loss of my hard earned points mate.

Next time, try to discuss without baiting or flirting with T&C.

IRM

Bacteria manages to survive high in our own atmosphere. Normally air doesn't mix beyond the troposphere, but that's normally. In over three billion years some bacteria has made it into the upper atmospheric layers, and some of that has managed to survive and adapt.

It is possible that a portion of that high altitude bacteria would end up being carried into space by solar weather or magnetic forces. Once free of the Earth it could spread to other planets and moons. The solar system could be teeming with life, and it could have originated here on Earth.

Some very interesting posts on this topic, some people are thinking, some not so much. I would like to add a few opinions of my own if I may:

1. Life on Mars was already scientifically proven when a group of scientists led by David McKay of NASA's Johnson Space Center published the 16 August 1996 issue of Science magazine announcing the discovery of evidence for primitive bacterial life on Mars (the ALH 84001 meteorite).
The problem with this announcement is that most people did not read the whole article, so they say “Well those blobby looking things could be bacteria or they could just be mud balls”. In fact the article says there were three discoveries made:
a) Shapes that Resemble Bacteria
b) Microscopic Mineral Grains: associated with the shapes were small crystal like structures composed of magnetite, pyrrhotite, and greigite. Terran bacteria make these crystals also and are produced by biological activity. Some are waste products, some like magnetite help bacteria move around in a planetary magnetic field.
c) Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons: when bacteria on earth die, they create PAH molecules. The mixture of PAHs found in ALH 84001 is very different from PAH found on other meteors.

The point is that when all three of these are taken together, then the probability of a biological origin becomes higher. McKay and his team said themselves: ““None of these observations is in itself conclusive for the existence of past life. Although there are alternative explanations for each of these phenomena taken individually, when they are considered collectively, particularly in view of their spatial association, we conclude that they are evidence for primitive life on Mars.”

2. Did life originate on Earth? The Earth is about 4.6 billion years old, but recently life 4.3 billion years old may have been found in ancient rocks (inspiringnews.wordpress.com... ). If life originated on Earth it would have to have evolved from nothing to something in 300 million years or less since some of this time the Earth’s surface was still molten from all the collisions. This reminds me of the DNA co-discover and Nobel prize winner Professor Francis Crick and his Panspermia theory which states that life like bacteria is floating around all over interplanetary space ready to “seed” planets. I must I admit I thought he was nuts when I heard about this in the 1980’s and I thought I was open minded, but I have never won a Nobel prize hehe. This also reminds me of Surveyor 3. This probe was launched in April 1967 and landed on the moon where it was exposed on the lunar surface for 31 months before the Apollo 12 mission. The Apollo 12 crew took back pieces of the probe and they found bacteria alive and well in some of the pieces, so bacteria can survive deep space.

3. Who cares about bacteria? Bacteria can evolve into multicelluar organisms as occurred on Earth. The trigger seems to be an abundance of oxygen which provides more energy and allows cells to group together and still get oxygen diffusion to all of them. Oxygen on earth seems to have arisen from oxygen producing bacteria (cyanobacteria) and also, and more interesting from UV interaction with surface ice. This also applies to other ice covered bodies such as Europa and other planets and moons (www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov... )

4. Do we even recognize life when we see it? Take a look of this picture of Europa: www.wwu.edu... See all that brown gunk growing from the fissures? Hmm, could life be staring at us right in the face?

apologies Bloodsearch!

I may have got the wrong impression from your post and I am sorry if I have caused you any discomfort or came across as flaming your thread.

I don't post much and thought your thread was really worth posting to as you obviously have similar opinions to myself. I was attempting to get away from the paranoia that normally goes with these threads in my usual abrupt clumsy manner.

--And now to return to the origianal intention of your excellent theread.

-- In fact I quite like to speculate myself and My theory is that Life is somehow "hardwired/encoded" into the physics of the universe. I think that there is a fantastic chance that there are other "minds" out there that we havent contacted yet and that there is a lot of potential for lots of "goldilocks" planets which are teeming with life. I think prehaps that intelligence is a lot rarer however and will be a lot harder to find and until some kind of FTL is invented theres probably little chance we will. I don't think there is much extraterrestial life in our solar system, but there may have been a time when simple one celled life may have had a chance to start on mars or even venus. But I would love to be proven wrong on this hunch.

And to ----> Nicolas Flamel

I liked your post too - However

My understanding of the ALH 84001 meteorite was that the "fossils" were too small to have been life as they were almost at atomic scale. Also that astroid was found on earth in antartica and could have easily been contaminated from our own life forms in meltwater. There was another rock in egypt which also had some of the signatures of life but was also found to be non-conclusive did you hear about that one?

Well oinkment, you raise two very good points, which I will try to address.

1. The folssils were too small.

Yep these criters are pretty small. But science moves forward and some scientists are now discovering nanobacteria and nanobes on earth. These nanobes are as small or smaller than the martian fossils and not surprisingly many are deep earth dwelling. On mars they would also live under the surface.

Here are a couple of links:
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

2. With regards to contamination, it's possible but the NASA science team said there was no contamination and their sampling was from the interior of the rock. If there was contamination we should be seeing big bacteria no?

What I find interesting though is that it takes the scientific establishment a very long time to give up their entrenched world views as has happened so many times in the past.

reply to post by oinkment


Thank you, the internet can be a difficult medium to communicate ideas across effectively, lacking that face to face element. It can be very easy to interpret things in a different way to what the poster intended and I do it all the time.

How common life is in the universe is very much a unknown, it could be we reside in a very lonely part of the galaxy. You could argue that because we have not detected any alien tv channels, (radio, microwaves etc) there are no civilizations near us on a similar technological level. This does not rule out less or more advanced civilizations though. That being said I do not believe our detectors are strong enough to detect this. The people working at SETI seem to be expecting a signal any day now so I could be wrong.

Either way finding life of any form outside our Planet will have a monumental impact on us all and how we see ourselves. Plus as mentioned by previous posters, even the discovery of 'Martian' bacteria will give the UFO subject widespread credibility, which is long overdue.

reply to post by Nicolas Flamel


Very interesting data that you presented!

The Panspermia concept is another outstanding bit of material that should not be ruled out. I too, thought it rather off the wall some years ago, but now it makes more sense. In reality, panspermia continues to this day, according to many scientists.
www.unexplained-mysteries.com...
"More than 90% of the Universe is composed of dark matter & energy. If you look at the Milky Way from a distance, it appears as would a cd disc, bright & glowing. But reports indicate that a large portion surrounding it, is indeed dark matter, as if the cd disc is floating inside a large beach-ball." So basically the stuff that we can't see, is really out there. But as theory goes, this Dark Matter interacts with us, so your concept of "life right in front of us" is compelling.

Now for the fun part...Plasma Metaphysics, as written by Jay Alfred. (www.unexplained-mysteries.com...)

"Bohm observed that once electrons were in plasma, they stopped behaving like individuals & began behaving as if they were part of a larger interconnected whole. In gravity free space, plasma particles will bead to form string like filaments, which will twist into helical strands resembling DNA that are electrically charged & attracted to each other. These structures undergo changes associated with bio molecules. They divide to form copies of original structures."

"Tsytovich observed the plasma as complex, self-organized, exhibiting all necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter. He concluded that the plasma structures were autonomous, reproductive & that they evolve."

"Ionized conditions needed to form helical structures are common in outer space, & 99% of the universe is ionized. Carbon based life forms require acceptable range of temperature in order to survive. Plasma is associated with high temps, which would be too hostile to carbon based life forms."

"Tsytovich noted that plasma life forms can develope on Earth at the point of lightening strikes...but can survive at low temperatures. The spheres replicate by splitting in two...under right conditions they grow larger...finally they communicate information by emitting electromagnetic energy, making other spheres vibrate at a particular frequency...giving plasma spheres the ability described as telepathic, if we do not understand how or know how the electromagnetic waves worked."
[url=http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_washingtonDC01.htm#Photographic%20evidence%20of%20UFOs%20Landing%20on%20Capitol%20Hi ll]

At this point, I can not add anything concerning silicon-based life forms. If someone has anything viable please feel free. I would be interested.

I must concur & conclude with what Jay Alfred said of "the understanding the scope of evolution of man at many different levels of existance, not just the biochemical level." Implications that at the demise of our carbon-based bodies, we must transcend to a form of inorganic living matter.



[edit on 5-11-2008 by DREAMING MAN]

[edit on 5-11-2008 by DREAMING MAN]