The need for a messenger

Can someone explain why mankind would need a messenger (a prophet, a teacher) from God.
Its amazing, people take the messengers word for it, even if they came hundreds to thousands of years ago.
I don't understand this. If there is a god then doesn't he love us enough to speak to us individually TODAY without the need of some historic messenger. personally, I believe he does. That is where religion doesn't make sense to me. The more I think about it, its like a certain elite person claims to hear from god and then we put them on a pedestal. We fall under their control and listen to them as if they were god. Now, why would an awesome, all powerful being need a messenger? If he loves you then he's going to speak to YOU. and most of all why would you need a messenger in order to find him and know his "law"...something don't add up

God doesn't appear to us as a man, last time he did that was to adam and eve (i think). Messanger(s) help spread the so called "word" and deliever important messages.

Originally posted by infinite
God doesn't appear to us as a man, last time he did that was to adam and eve (i think). Messanger(s) help spread the so called "word" and deliever important messages.

Important? From whose point of view? First you show up and say "You've all sinned and going to hell, God told me to tell you" then you say "lucky for you I have just the solution... do as I say and worship who I tell you to worship, and you'll be SAVED from eternal damnation".

And like a flock of sheep, people with no knowledge of reality, but with a fear that he MAY be right (unfounded fear, simply due to their susceptibility to intimidation, service to self perspective, and weak mindedness) they follow him.

[Edited on 30-3-2004 by lilblam]

Now, why would an awesome, all powerful being need a messenger? If he loves you then he's going to speak to YOU. and most of all why would you need a messenger in order to find him and know his "law"...something don't add up

People have experiences with God all the time. I know there are people on this board who talk about having had personal experiences with God. Many times these people are laughed at or called crazy. But they know in their hearts that they've experienced God, and that's all that matters.

We fall under their control and listen to them as if they were god.

The only messenger I've listened to as if he was God is Jesus, and that's because he is God. People don't listen to messengers as God... Priests, nuns, monks, reverends, etc, are all God's messengers but we shouldn't listen to them as if they were God. We've seen that these people are fallable, and to listen to them as if they were God is not the right path to take.

I use my cat, to be a messanger to my repitiles. If they dont pray to me, I take there light. No sun today... No food.... Kitty show them your claws, you will use them if they forsake me..... What kind of god would that be?

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
I use my cat, to be a messanger to my repitiles. If they dont pray to me, I take there light. No sun today... No food.... Kitty show them your claws, you will use them if they forsake me..... What kind of god would that be?

I dunno who's god you're trying to make an analogy about but it sure isn't my God. My God doesn't take my food, health, light, etc away from me when I don't pray to Him.

Originally posted by Faisca

Now, why would an awesome, all powerful being need a messenger? If he loves you then he's going to speak to YOU. and most of all why would you need a messenger in order to find him and know his "law"...something don't add up

People have experiences with God all the time. I know there are people on this board who talk about having had personal experiences with God. Many times these people are laughed at or called crazy. But they know in their hearts that they've experienced God, and that's all that matters.

Yes of course, your own delusional fantasies and wishful thinking.. as long as you convinced yourself that that was GOD and not something else, that is all that really matters. The TRUTH doesn't matter, it's what you tell yourself that matters. The problem is, you try to think with your FEELINGS (as you call it your heart) and not your mind. If it feels good, it must be God. Nice strategy

We fall under their control and listen to them as if they were god.

The only messenger I've listened to as if he was God is Jesus, and that's because he is God. People don't listen to messengers as God... Priests, nuns, monks, reverends, etc, are all God's messengers but we shouldn't listen to them as if they were God. We've seen that these people are fallable, and to listen to them as if they were God is not the right path to take.

Jesus is God? Or so you were told. Who ISN'T God anyway? And why?

In addition, you say these people are fallable? And who isn't? God? How could he not be, if there are so many contradictions and indicisiveness on his part in religious texts and personal experiences of different people when compared and contrasted. Also, when you are infallible, this is subjective. You can only make a mistake if someone VIEWS it as a mistake. Therefore, we're all infallible until we decide that we made a mistake, or someone else decides this.

For example, I think it's a mistake that God created Hell (if this was true), therefore this makes God fallible. He cannot be perfect if someone sees what he does as a mistake, now can he.

Originally posted by Faisca

Originally posted by SpittinCobra
I use my cat, to be a messanger to my repitiles. If they dont pray to me, I take there light. No sun today... No food.... Kitty show them your claws, you will use them if they forsake me..... What kind of god would that be?

I dunno who's god you're trying to make an analogy about but it sure isn't my God. My God doesn't take my food, health, light, etc away from me when I don't pray to Him.

Every read to book of JOB?

lilblam, I couldn't have said it better. Although, in my current state I believe in god and that he does speak to me. mostly because things have happened in my life and thats the only way I have to explain them. Perhaps I am delusional but I'm always questioning and searching. Maybe one day I'll snap out of it.
Anyways, my argument is a person should be more adept to believe something that happens in their own personal being and not some historical figure. Throughout history god has supposibly used these people to reveal himself to us. Well, why not you and all the other individuals that make up this world, he shouldn't play favorites. Was muhammed, buddha, moses any better than you or I?. He ought to be more than capable of saying hey this is me and this is what I want to each and everyone of us

Originally posted by KSoze
lilblam, I couldn't have said it better. Although, in my current state I believe in god and that he does speak to me. mostly because things have happened in my life and thats the only way I have to explain them. Perhaps I am delusional but I'm always questioning and searching. Maybe one day I'll snap out of it.
Anyways, my argument is a person should be more adept to believe something that happens in their own personal being and not some historical figure. Throughout history god has supposibly used these people to reveal himself to us. Well, why not you and all the other individuals that make up this world, he shouldn't play favorites. Was muhammed, buddha, moses any better than you or I?. He ought to be more than capable of saying hey this is me and this is what I want to each and everyone of us

And people like to disregard what you just said by saying "Yeah but he's too great to do this.. he needs an intermediate between him and us" *cough*bull#*cough*.

Now, perhaps the NATURE of what God is has been hopelessly confused by people? Perhaps we're here to learn our lessons and move on, so what would be the point of him interfering? What would he want? To impose order? Well then he just wants to control us like we control our lab rats, then my question would be: Who said he's GOD anyway? Is he self-proclaimed? What if I say I am God, what would i have to do to PROVE it? Probably nothing... as any "miracle" can be replicated with high technology, and therefore somebody out there in the universe who has the technology will be able to do this also.

Then how do you know who is truly God and who is lying? Simple: We're all God. There is no all-powerful single entity for one simple reason: Knowledge (which manifests in power) is infinite, and unending. YOu can never know EVERYTHING because there is no limit to everything.

THis is easily seen from the example:

Can God create a rock he cannot lift? This is easy to answer, NO. Why? Because as long as he can create a rock, that rock will have a FINITE size, and therefore it will be liftable. However, he CANNOT create an infinitely large rock, as infinity is never reached!

The problem arises not in the lifting, but in the creating. He can keep making it bigger and bigger, but as long as it's not INFINITELY big (which will never happen) he will always be able to lift it. Therefore, God cannot possibly know EVERYTHING as this is = infinity. So he cannot possibly be GOD, and no one entity possibly can.

When you combine EVERYTHING THAT EXISTS (which is infinity, no limit to possibilities), all of it TOGETHER is what makes GOD. THis is why God is ONE with his creation and vice versa... they are one and the same. Is this not obvious yet? Apparently not...

Sometimes we look too hard to see not what is really there, but what we want to be there.


"Occam's razor is a logical principle attributed to the mediaeval philosopher William of Occam (or Ockham). The principle states that one should not make more assumptions than the minimum needed. This principle is often called the principle of parsimony. It underlies all scientific modelling and theory building. It admonishes us to choose from a set of otherwise equivalent models of a given phenomenon the simplest one. In any given model, Occam's razor helps us to "shave off" those concepts, variables or constructs that are not really needed to explain the phenomenon. By doing that, developing the model will become much easier, and there is less chance of introducing inconsistencies, ambiguities and redundancies."

pespmc1.vub.ac.be...

Why do we need any messenger?
It's normally to give us a piece of information that we aren't in possession of or to remind us of something that we have forgotten.

As Jesus was an idea revived from Paganism, it would seem to me that his message was to remind the Jews that their tribal god had served his purpose and that they should return to their spiritual origins.

You need messengers to spread the word... It's not that difficult.. People tend to make things more difficult then what they really are. I've been there, done that.

I've searched for the truth and the last place I ever htought I would find the answer would be in God.

But now that i'm researching it more and more i'm finding what the truth is...


Sure religion has it's downfalls, but thats because the people using these religions are extreme and using them for their own self serving purposes...

You need to understand that God is always there, but when you drift away from him, he can't make you come back to him.. he is upset indeed, but he is always there waiting for you to come back tohim... He's helped people three times so far when it comes to using his universal law...

Nobody wanted to listen to him because theythink it's retarded. They would rather live in an oppressed society until they are pushed to their limits, then they believe in god..
why is it so hard to believe in the first place?? Why is it so ridiculous.. It's not...
YOu will never find peace in your soul until you turn to god. God is the man who knows all, he knows everything, he knows the future, he's written it through Jesus, fromwhere he came to take the place of a man, to demonstrate to us what would happen, and we're still doing the same thing today.

He even says we are spoiled in this day, as they were spoiled back then. He has given us freedom of choice, however we do not understand that the spirit is within us, at all times, and that we do not put the spirit within whenever we feel like it... Thats the downfall today.

We feel we will just conveniently use God when we need help..
This society is so selfish so self serving, so ignorant but when we need help we will go to him.. Everybody does it..

So we need messengers to tell people to not fall into Satans ways...

If you want, I will give you links, this one site I quote from all the time has brought me closer to god, it's brought me more peace, god has used this man as a messenger... And I m glad I found him... I never ever used to be this way, up until a week ago... And i'm so glad I did.