This man really knew what he was talking about

John Lennon was a great singer and member of the Beatles. He had the moral courage and conviction to say what was on his mind. And even though I might not necessarily agree with every thing he had said or stood for, I will defend the freedom he had to say what was on his mind. Afterall, if he didn't have that freedom, none of would have that freedom. As an aside, I do think that it was a shame that a coward had to cut Lennon's life short. And I will give the origional poster a two thumbs up and a flag for starting this thread.

Originally posted by calihan123
I dont need to go to church to listen about the consequences of my actions. I'd rather live my life for today, and enjoy my life.. instead of focusing on what will happen years from now after I die. Honestly, I could care less. And that is the difference between you and I. Whereas you live life for what will happen to you in your after life... I live life for today, and tomorrow.

I have practiced many religions, and I speak from my own experience. Religion taught me nothing about being a better person.

I respect how you feel, but I don't think you have any idea how I feel. I for one don't go to church because I'm worried about what happens to me after I die. Like you I live for today, and tomorrow, because I know there will be a tomorrow. I worship and enjoy my life, and if I ever attended a church that oppressed this belief, I'd never go again.

I go because I not only want to see my life through my own eye's , but that of others as well. When I sit in the pew and listen to the word of God and the pastors homily, I apply what I hear to what I believe and what I live. I not only do it to honor myself, but to honor and serve others as well.

And for the record, I don't need to go to church to worship, or believe, or honor... I just get more out of it when I do. In times of need, faith based service groups are usually there before FEMA, and do a lot of good in the community.

Did you think you would ever see something like this?
Muslim Home Buyers Forbidden by Their Religion to Pay Interest Turn to Christian Charity
It's worth reading...

Edited to add: If you think MY church freightens me into being a good person, you are sadly mistaken, and if yours has... you have definitely been going to the WRONG church!
I'm TheRooster, and I approve this message.

[edit on 11/2/2008 by TheRooster]

I see where you are coming from as well. And I respect your beliefs . And I respect people who go to church. Most people I know do go to church. Most of my family are actually southern baptists and very religious.

But because of what ive seen growing up in church, I chose as I got older and wiser, not to go anymore. There were many corrupt things that went on in church. I didnt feel spiritual there. I felt completely drained of any spirituality when I went to church. So if it helps you to go, thats great. To each their own. But for me, my spirituality blossoms and grows without going to church.

Originally posted by calihan123
I see where you are coming from as well. And I respect your beliefs .

Thank you, as I do yours. What if, and this is a big if...

There actually was a heaven and hell, and when John got to the pearly gates (just for s4!+$ and giggles) God was playing his song?

I remember exactly where I was on the day John's senseless death was reported. Are you old enough to remember?

Hah. No no. I was too young to remember. But I do love his music and I think he was famous for a reason. To send very strong messages to people. I wish we had more celebrities with positive goals these days.. unfortunately nowadays they are all druggies and alcoholics who die by age 22 from overdoses :-/

Such a great influence on young people they are. . .

reply to post by calihan123


I don't wish to belittle those who go to church or believe in God, but I too no longer go to church or believe myself. It's okay if you believe in God, even though you no longer go to church. That should always be a personal choice. I was old enough myself to remember when John Lennon was killed. I was 22 when Chapmen murdered him.

Originally posted by calihan123
Hah. No no. I was too young to remember. But I do love his music and I think he was famous for a reason. To send very strong messages to people. I wish we had more celebrities with positive goals these days.. unfortunately nowadays they are all druggies and alcoholics who die by age 22 from overdoses :-/

Such a great influence on young people they are. . .

You want somebody to look up to? Go volunteer one hour of your time in a pediatric cancer unit or burn center. You will leave with your heart in your throat and your shirt drenched in tears... Those kids will inspire you beyond belief and leave you with an overwhelming and pathetic sense of self...

And you will have loved every minute of it.

Yeah ive actually been interested in a long time in volunteering abroad but those programs are so darn expensive!

I still will do it eventually, but I have to save money. See. People can be good people and not go to church

People do generally want the world to be a better place.

Originally posted by Wally Conley
I was old enough myself to remember when John Lennon was killed. I was 22 when Chapmen murdered him.

I was walking out of the Nautilus at Hampshire Mall in Hadley Mass. when someone walking in said "hey, did you hear John Lennon was shot"?

Originally posted by calihan123
I still will do it eventually, but I have to save money. See. People can be good people and not go to church

Never said you/they couldn't, if I some how implied this, please forgive me.
Second line.

[edit on 11/2/2008 by TheRooster]

Hah, I forgive.


I just wish we still had people in the world like lennon who inspired so many people to be better.

I truly believe that any person can improve our world. So many people think they cant make a difference, but just one person can change a lot of things. Thats why celebrities should use the power they have to influence the world in a positive way. But they dont anymore.

Originally posted by calihan123
Hah, I forgive.


I just wish we still had people in the world like lennon who inspired so many people to be better.

I truly believe that any person can improve our world. So many people think they cant make a difference, but just one person can change a lot of things. Thats why celebrities should use the power they have to influence the world in a positive way. But they dont anymore.

The key is to stop waiting for that person and be that person. You may actually have more power than the average celebritard if you take action, and be your own inspiration.

Yeah, well I try to make an impact in my every day life. I have had many people tell me I changed their life for the better, just by having a simple conversation with me about something that they could talk about with anyone else.

Many people are the same. They make an impact in peoples lives.. even if its only one persons life. All we can do is try to be the best we can be everyday, and hopefully somewhere along the line it will inspire those who come in contact with us to be the same way.

Imagine... ya, fella, that's all well and good but if we are sitting around imagining we are going to get hungry - oh, and other people do believe in that stuff and aren't going to waver from whatever their little ideals are.

It is a nice thought and it's cool if you "get" what he is saying and all... erm, not everyone thinks the same way or acts the same way so it's a moot ideal. But it is a nice fantasy!

The people who he intended to hear it probably didn't give a crap about those words. I mean the people who direct things and aspire to "have it all" in the literal sense.

Meh, whatever right dudes? If we knew anything we'd be somewhere else already

it's an ok song. i guess it's "deep" in a shallow sort of way. i never really like the beatles. a couple of songs are ok though. yesterday is better than imagine imo.

reply to post by TheRooster


as Ghandi said, paraphrased, be the change you wish to see in the world.


I was once very dogmatic as a Christian, spreading the gospel and trying to get people to come to Christ for salvation, worried about any being lost, and all of that. I was also, as a younger man, involved in a lot of different religions, trying to find the truth. In the end, I had to walk away from them all for a few different reasons, most of which I won't bore you with here.

But there were a few things that I learned in my travels, and most of them not good, when it comes to organized religions.

My take on it all is this : Religion can, and does, bring out the best or the worst in a person, and is enigmatic enough to be able to justify BOTH. I'll use Christianity as an example, since it is the one that I know most are familiar with, overall.

What the message of Jesus (aka Yahshua, for some reason they couldnt even get his name in any way close to his real name :| ) taught boils down to something extremely simple... Love yourself, love your neighbor, and love your god, because all are one and the same. If people stuck to that message, without any of the extraneous crap on top of it, I think this world would be the beautiful place that it could have been all along.

But then, some people decided that that was not enough, and needed tp control the minds and actions of others. Apparently they did not have enough to do So, the church began to be organized, with this man who had a beautiful message at its heart, because they knew that his message, at its heart, would be something that would draw people like moths to a flame. Remember, most everyone would agree that a message as simple as, love yourself, love your neighbor, and love your god, because all are one and the same, would be something that most people could agree is simple, beautiful, and heart opening.

Then the "others" start to sink their grips into lives, and create texts to back up their opinions, and desires. And thus an organized religion is born.

I ask people a simple question, if they are the fire and brimstone bible thumpers.... If Jesus were alive today, and you did not know him as being "that man", and you tried to get him "saved", and he refused... would you walk away from him, damning him to hell?


I ask this question because I have seen the glee that some people take in going to people and flaunting that "salvation" in the persons face. They will do everything under the sun to make that person turn away from the "saving grace of God", so that they can then turn around and zealously damn that person for not accepting Christ.

It's sick, it really is. They are like little kids, jealously guarding their salvation like a bully at christmas, demanding that anyone who wants to play with his toy pay their price for doing so. You can literally see the glint in their eyes, I am not kidding.


Did Jesus preach that way? Did he ever? He was known as gentle Jesus for a reason. Never would he have flaunted it in someones face. So for those of you out there who do this kind of thing, how can you be better than the master you profess to follow? Think about it.


As I said, religion can bring out the best or the worst in a person. Both stances can be justified if you follow the texts literally. And, unfortunately, there have been a lot of people throughout history who have taken advantage of that. We've had some examples of the good ones, for sure, but anyone who wants to be fully honest with the ring of history has to admit that, unfortunately, more of the bad ones have come about than good.

Does that mean that all religions are bad, or whatever you wish to say? No. only the ways people use it.

The core is, never interfere with anothers free will. It is the best gift that we have. If you can live that way, you'll see the world CAN be good.

You know if people stopped listening to retards like Lennon and Ghandi and started doing things for/by themseleves and found some inner pride we wouldnt have to lean on or call on others to give us strength or hope...we would have it. Having a role model, favorite singer / actor / actress, etc...is fine but when you start believing THEIR words and THEIR way of life are what YOU need to do...your in serious trouble..IMO...stop looking for heros and look inside YOURSELF for once...make your own life, your own way, and you would be suprised how much better it is and how much happier you are!!!

reply to post by rcwj75



That's the point I was trying to get across, in the end. The problem is, the moment that anyone tries to do anything to help, they are blasted down by the others who want the status quo to remain the same.

As I said, free will is our gift most precious, and if you live a life with that idea in mind, to never violate anothers free will, you can really live a wonderful life.

Thats the message I try to spread. Live your life by YOUR truths, your free will, and as long as you never violate anothers free will, you're living with love at the core of things. Unfortunately, most believe they have to control others in one way or form, and we see the results in the world today.

I teach my children about free will, and its consequences, as well as its benefits. They are free to choose what they wish to believe in, and I encourage them to explore all possibilities to find what is right for them. But that free will thing is the one thing that i have tried to get them to express overall. If they can keep that in mind, I have no worries about their future and know they will make the right choices.

(Edited for spelling, darn fingers not working in the morning!)

[edit on 3-11-2008 by Jomina]

"Imagine" was a very simple song that was written by a very complex and iconoclastic man who was hounded by the F.B.I. because he dared to "Imagine"..... I thought that the world was going crazy when J.F.K. was killed on a street in Dallas that I had been going up and down for all of the 13 years of my life.... When John Lennon was so senselessly killed 17 years later, I was devastated. .... He made a lot of money, and he could of sat back and maintained a low profile, but he wanted to tell people that it's alright to permit themselves to just "Imagine".... Why was he such a threat to national security and organized religion?.... I can just imagine......... I think that he would have loved it here on ATS.

The beatles were advocating socialism and the destruction of organized religion, before you paint him a siant look into their involvement in mk ultra as well as the subliminal messages found in their and specificly his music then come back and get mushy about his so called inspired music.