west yorkshire based like minded

I've been reading a few posts on like minded folks meeting up and planning to form groups and what not. Maybe this is a good idea, maybe not but what I think is a good idea is sharing communications.

Both as a means of keeping morale up and sharing news / events etc. Meeting up prior would of course be good to pick each others plans to bits etc, but still keeps the individual responsible for themselves, family and there setup. And keeps a good amount of space to help build trade routes etc up later on if sitX was indeed that bad.

It increases the ground coverage so the chances of good crops / farming increase as will trade etc. Will encourage infrastructure to be built again all over the country rather than just where the group would be located and would give you the chance of a "holiday"

I just think it would be daft to have a large group in one area as it opens up command and control issues (power struggles etc), resources issues and large groups always draw more interest, leading more further resource issues and unwanted interest from whats left of the gov. Where as keeping it to individual groups each with their own choices and land then it will start to form the basis of rebuilding the Country from the get go.

Anyway the point of my post is to get feed back and to start getting to know people in and around my neck of the woods. Indeed further away too!

so what do you guys think ?

I think what you are proposing is the best system of working together without being compelled or obliged to work with other survies, There is a concept that has been around for a few years now called Mutual Support Agreements. with MSAs people offer or provide whatever information , support intel or supplies they can to other survivalists with whom they have an agreement.
This protect individuals from being coerced or prerssured by the requirements of being in a group. But allows them to build up trust and understanding of other survivalists with whom they liaise with.

During a disaster or crisis the exchange could simply be something as simple as providing realtime intel reports or weather reports from a location nearer the disaster area, moving up through things such as finding a fellow survivalist trapped in your area because of the same disaster, and you simply providing him with a chance to obtain fresh water, a cup of coffee, some local intel orlocal mapping info, perhaps allowing the visitor to park his BOV on your drive overnight while he charges his batteries, anything little or large that can help your fellow survivalist get to where he is going that bit easier.

The only way MSAs can become workable is firstly the various survies need to get to know their colleagues better, you dont want complete stangers tapping you up for supplies. the best way to achieve a level of freindship and trust between survies is for the interested parties to met at social survivalist gatherings such as RZs and wilderness gatherings. This way you get to share a pint or cupper over a bbq and get to know and pick for yourself the people you want to work with.
Currently I have MSAs with 11 other Brits in various parts of the UK.

thanks for filling me in on this! its defiantly something I shall be pursuing.

reply to post by Northern Raider


Hey Northen Raider,

Might I ask how you went about finding people interested in MSAs?

I'm having a little trouble scoping them out in my immediate areas (East Midlands).

Cheers!
Bigmoose

Originally posted by bigmoose
reply to post by Northern Raider

 

Hey Northen Raider,

Might I ask how you went about finding people interested in MSAs?

I'm having a little trouble scoping them out in my immediate areas (East Midlands).

Cheers!
Bigmoose

Actually it was fairly easy, this is not meant to sound patrionising, its just how it worked for me.
I got into various forums like this one, and the old widening gyre site, MSM, and Retreat survival forums and got talking with fellow British, dutch and irish survivalists. Then I whittled out the John Rambo and Cult builders by discussing survival in depth with them. When there was a regular group of posters and a regular group of similar people who lurked but did not post as much I invited them to a Rendezvous, oddly enough it was in your area Birmingham. We all agreed to get togther in a small hotel in Brum and break ice, debate, barter, socialise, critic each others kit and plans, get to know each other etc etc. We spent a long weekend chatting until 4 AM and getting to know each other. it was bloody successful with only one out of the 16 being unsuitable ( for me that is) to build up a serious MSA set up. 15 survies out of 16 possibles, coming from all over the UK and Eire, (except scotland for some reason ). I'll tell you this in all,seriousness, I have never met such a great bunch of like minded people before in my life, half of whom I agreed to set up MSAs with them within a week of the meeting, the rest within the month. now years later there is still 6 at least in operation.

We in Britain do have the capability of having a regular communication set up with others like ourselves, with only a few serious drawbacks. The worst being the fact that nearly all of the survivalists who live in the south refuse to travel, even only as far as Birmingham. They will rant and rave and insist we across the rest of the UK, Eire and coastal europe travel to RZs in the south of England,which most of us will and have done. But in return they will faithfully promise to come up north or to say Eire the next year but ALWAYS to a man fail to turn up. I tried every thing I could think of to get them to reciprocate on our trips to the south, and every time they would promise to come north the next year, but fail to turn up.
One year I was so keen to get a big gathering going because there was so much catching up to do, I decided to pay out of my own pocket to rent some luxury lodges at Centre parcs in the lake district, and even to provide the social drinks as well. All the others had to do was to turn up and pay for their own food. I invited various survivalists from various groups or families and individuals and got firm assurances that 17 people would turn up 12 from the south east and south west, the other five including myself from Brum northwards and Eire. So I forked out 2 grand on my own money because I believed in developing these links was essential to the survivalist community in the UK ( At the time). Not one of the 12 from the south turned up, the others did even the lad from eire made the effort, but the 12 southerners broke their pledge and failed to keep their words. So if you decide to go with MSA's (A) Be careful who you invite (B) dont spend your own money if southerners say they are coming. Your best bet is to simply hold a social gathering/ BBQ on some rally field at any given remote campsite in your part of the world.

BTW theres a sizable group of survies in west midlands near Ludlow, they are a very good and skilled team if a little odd ( my belief)

Well our plans are the borders if we get enough time as far north as we can get.

I have been on this site for some time and I have read posts from guys that have mentioned the areas where we plan to do one to!!..

Think when it comes to it ...hopefully we will bump into them up there!!

But we are very reluctant to have meets ...I think you can be exposed to some nutcases!!.. and this site has taught me you have to be bloody careful!!..there are people that think they know something ..yet know bugger all...and there are the liabilities!!...I want neither latching on to us!!

So we have come to the conclusion ,,,might be better to address the situation when it happens!!

Originally posted by shuck
Well our plans are the borders if we get enough time as far north as we can get.

I have been on this site for some time and I have read posts from guys that have mentioned the areas where we plan to do one to!!..

Think when it comes to it ...hopefully we will bump into them up there!!

But we are very reluctant to have meets ...I think you can be exposed to some nutcases!!.. and this site has taught me you have to be bloody careful!!..there are people that think they know something ..yet know bugger all...and there are the liabilities!!...I want neither latching on to us!!

So we have come to the conclusion ,,,might be better to address the situation when it happens!!

Good luck, what ever works for you is right for you, last week I was recceing out the Berwick to Coldstram area, its got some potential.
respects NR

Northern Rider,

I couldn't help but pick our your 'cult survivalists' comment, having nearly being a victim to a scheme whereby we create a little village and.. Well - I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

Situation for me is I have this extensive knowledge of my immediate 25 mile radius. I'm talking, a map with the works (food sources.. water sources.. underground storage.. underground bunkers.. etc.), supplies and sills. But no-one to share it with!

It's a lonely place.. ha-ha!

Nether the less, thanks for the advice mate! I'll get on it.
Bigmoose

Originally posted by bigmoose
Northern Rider,

I couldn't help but pick our your 'cult survivalists' comment, having nearly being a victim to a scheme whereby we create a little village and.. Well - I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

Situation for me is I have this extensive knowledge of my immediate 25 mile radius. I'm talking, a map with the works (food sources.. water sources.. underground storage.. underground bunkers.. etc.), supplies and sills. But no-one to share it with!

It's a lonely place.. ha-ha!

Nether the less, thanks for the advice mate! I'll get on it.
Bigmoose

I cant help but think of the Arc2 project when I read your post!
I'm in a similar position as to you BM. Lots of knowledge, experience etc but am only just getting into this forum, I'm looking for others too now. I think its a question of time to build up some form of online credibility first then onto meetings.

If not when SHTF I'll be prepared and will just deal with stragglers as and when they arrive. Helping out where I can.

Originally posted by bigmoose
Situation for me is I have this extensive knowledge of my immediate 25 mile radius. I'm talking, a map with the works

Damn good idea

I'm working on something similar based on an A-Z map-book of my vicinity and have started by marking-in pharmacies, workshops, scrapyards, canalboat yards/tunnels/feeder ponds, telephone boxes (phone-boxes are gov't designated 'priority 1 communications' so won't be cut off following a situation, so can be used for recon point-to-point comms) allotments, etc

Originally posted by bigmoose
Northern Rider,

I couldn't help but pick our your 'cult survivalists' comment, having nearly being a victim to a scheme whereby we create a little village and.. Well - I'm sure you can imagine the rest.

Situation for me is I have this extensive knowledge of my immediate 25 mile radius. I'm talking, a map with the works (food sources.. water sources.. underground storage.. underground bunkers.. etc.), supplies and sills. But no-one to share it with!

It's a lonely place.. ha-ha!

Nether the less, thanks for the advice mate! I'll get on it.
Bigmoose

Oh yes I know that problem, I remember a guy from sarf Landan who wanted to build a survivalist Shangri la in the west country, very selective membership, only those with useful skills to be allowed to join, all members required to subscribe to buying a plot of land which this leader would then move onto along with his commune. Naturally he would be in charge of all these skilled people, but because he chain smoked 60 a day and could not walk 100yards without using an inhaler he would have to adopt a supervisory role.....

The best advice I can offer is by all means liaise and cooperate with other survivalists , but never become part of a commune or organised group, you never want to surrender your independence to either the govt or another group. Good hunting.

Originally posted by citizen smith

Originally posted by bigmoose
Situation for me is I have this extensive knowledge of my immediate 25 mile radius. I'm talking, a map with the works

Damn good idea

I'm working on something similar based on an A-Z map-book of my vicinity and have started by marking-in pharmacies, workshops, scrapyards, canalboat yards/tunnels/feeder ponds, telephone boxes (phone-boxes are gov't designated 'priority 1 communications' so won't be cut off following a situation, so can be used for recon point-to-point comms) allotments, etc

Thought these two articles from my little booklet may help in some small way.
MAPPING & ROUTE PLANNING

When preparing to move to a RETREAT or even on EXPEDITION TRAINING you must make careful notes of certain important factors in planning your journey, Also when in location at your base or retreat you need to record for future use some vital information.
Listed below are some of the most important items that should be included on your maps.
1 Main route to and from your base.
2 Secondary routes to your base.
3 Escape paths and alternate routes along your route to avoid hazards/ambushes/checkpoints/bad weather etc. etc.
4 Water and possible food supplies /and pre arranged caches along your routes.
5 Water supplies around your retreat, are they likely to remain that way are they pure? (Potable).
6Escape routes from the retreat in case of bad weather or overwhelming opposition.
7 Natural hazards, bogs, rivers, marshland, large forests, old mine workings, rock faces etc.
8 Manmade hazards, bomb sites, fallout zones, mine fields, militarised zones, refugee camps, check points, known patrol routes, comms sites, ( COMMS SITES =communication sites=ergo radio masts, communications/radio / microwave relay towers and broadcasting masts, telecommunications facilities, military network communications masts, broadcasting stations both civil/military and commercial etc. etc.)
Towns with populations exceeding available resources for self-reliance, etc.
9 Strategic targets, Bridges, factories, refineries, garrisons, police stations, airports, chemical and steel plants, reservoirs, road and rail junctions, marshalling yards, power stations, etc.
10 Climatic hazards depending on time of year.
11 Opposition, police, military both foreign and domestic, paramilitaries, refugees, renegades, looters.
12 Allies, Red cross, civil defence groups, other survival groups that are friendly.
Resources, Food stores, supermarkets, fuel dumps, grain stores, petrol stations and POL dumps, (Pol dumps = Petrol Oil and Lubricating dumps = fuel storage and distribution facilities, civil and military, petrol stations, oil storage facilities, refineries and crackers, wagon depots, rail refuelling depots, gas storage and distribution facilities, methane generator facilities (pig farms and ground fill sites), camping gas suppliers (butane / propane/map gas-calor-gaz-coleman-taymar etc)
Water supplies, tool stores, gun and sports shops, armouries, builders merchants, isolated shelters, farms, caves, tunnels, underpasses, fish farms, rivers and streams, colonies of cattle / small and large game etc.

A warning about Supplies.

Do ensure that when you approach sources of supplies that they are not already under someone else’s control, do not take unnecessary risks, go elsewhere or try again another day.
Avoid confrontation and unnecessary contact until things get as normal as possible, be prepared to barter for supplies.


USEFUL RESOURCE MAPPING

Identify and keep records of any useful resources that may be useful to your group post collapse.

Some materials like coal or building materials can frequently be left in place and they are unlikely to come to any harm, unless of course such materials are going to be in short supply.


Identify the following in your area

Recoverable sources of Firewood, Coal & Coke, Peat, Heating and fuel oil, Bottled Gas (butane and propane). Check coal yards, railway sidings, gas bottled refilling centers etc.
Petroleum Products, Petrol, Diesel, Avgas, Paraffin (Kerosene), Hypoid, Lubricants etc
(Most petroleum products will need treating with preservatives) Petrol stations, refineries, transport depots etc
Building Materials, Lumber, Bricks, Cement, and Aggregates etc. builders yards, DIY centers, quarries, building sites etc

Water Supplies, Tanks, ponds, reservoirs, streams, wells (including capped ones) artesian and aquifer supplies,
Water filtration and purification equipment and stockists.
Identify locations of fast flowing or fast falling water that could be used to turn generators, mills, etc.

Food stores, supermarkets, distribution centers, regional warehouses, grain stores, etc
Free range herds of cattle, sheep, chickens, deer etc
Rabbit farms, Rabbit warrens, Fish farms, angling clubs.

Tool stores, engineering suppliers, plant hire agencies, camping, caravanning and outdoor stores, sports shops, gun shops, gun smiths, boat yards, marinas, ships chandlers preserved railways etc

Remote housing that is conducive to self reliance, IE has things like functioning large chimneys and fire places, ultra insulated, double/ triple glazed, multi-fuel heating / cooking facilities, has a well or other clean water supply, solar panels, wind turbines, methane digesters, local supplies of fuel, defendable, etc other facilities like outdoor residential centers, outward bound centers, alternative technology centers, camping hostels, retreats etc are worth considering.

Check out footpaths, bridle ways, navigable water ways, rail lines, broadcasting masts, radio masts, wind farms, etc.

Please remember that in survival INFORMATION is not only power, but a lifesaver as well.

reply to post by IntoTheVortex


Vortex, check yer U2Us



[edit on 3-11-2008 by citizen smith]

thanks for the advice guys!

(if anyone is indeed around the Midlands and wants to chat on Skype or something, give us a bell for sure).

Just a useful thing I had when making my map, small, but I guess we can use any advice we get.

On Google maps, they have this 'terrain' tab. When you click it, it details the terrain - but more importantly makes any rivers/lakes/resevoirs/etc. deadly obvious. The useful ones here aren't only the large obvious ones, but the small ones which people will likely go to last if they ever find them.

*goes outside to sleep on his shelter made of twigs and bits of dog hair he stitched together to make a duvet*

Bigmoose

im seriously interested in this as a subject matter,and am not time wasting whatsoever,i really do think that something big is round the corner and no deep down i need to be prepared.i live in Chesterfield so am not far away from a lot of u and have the peak district close by which i see as ideal to re locate to if or when the # hits the fan.What i dont have though is any specific knowledge of survival and would really appreciate someone takin the time out to share their knowledge or put me on the right path to findin info out for myself.I believe i could be a valuable asset to anyone of a like mind if some sort of group or network is set up for when things get out of control.Any links,info or threads to help me with this would be greatly appreciated.

@BM when I get my U2u I'll send you my skype handle. and CS thanks mate will do but I don't think I can reply yet!!

@dooleys, hey mate, its good to be starting and unless people have had specific military training then its can be a pretty hard thing to get into.

There is loads of advice on this forum, but do a search for survival in google (it will also give you a list of related searches at the bottom of the page to expand your research) an you'll get tons of info. Even some Ebooks are around. If you can afford i'd look at buying some books too. Just so you have some hard copies for when SHTF. What I'd do is start to learn from the ground up in the most important order

1. Your local area / frv for when SHTF. start going camping now for a day or two at a time. Dont try to 'survive' yet as you could end up being in serious trouble. mostly from exposure. SAS guys have died on the beacons from that so it is a very VERY serious thing
   . (not to scare you out of learning though!)
   
2. Shelter and heat
   
3. water
   
4. food
   

when I get my U2U i'll send you my skype/msm handles.

some links to get you started

www.wilderness-survival.net... a general site with lots of topics to get you started including psychology of survival. Use their emergency kit as an idea of building your own BOB. But do more research into this.
www.m4040.com... A good site to get an idea on the types of shelters (some good renderings) but doesnt explain how to build them in much depth.
wildwoodsurvival.com... quite in depth series of articles on several types of shelter.

These are only a starting point. Don't just rely on reading and looking at pictures for your skills. It takes years to perfect survival techniques, as it does with any other skill. But we all have to start at some point. Read up, take some notes, take them with you when you go camping and try to start building the shelters. Don't get disheartened when at first they look like # and fall down easily!!! cos you've always got your nice tent and sleeping bag to curl up into! hehe

I've got a post with a pretty full list for a BOB / long term survival kit www.abovetopsecret.com... Mod it for your needs / physical abilities. Its got prices etc on to get an idea pricing your kit up. But as BM stated in the post it sounds heavy and it is relatively. The BOB isn't too bad but if your not used to tabbing then it's probably not the best kit for you! and besides a BOB is a personal thing with items in that you want. The listings around the net are only there to give you an idea.

good luck mate and I'll help you out where ever I can, its been a good year since I last headed out for a weekend with little kit (moving, hospital, work, moving again!) so I'm looking forward to getting back out.

reply to post by Northern Raider


some sound advice there mate! especially on the raiding supplies bit, I get a feeling a few folks around here seem to think survival is sheer fire power not brains... The mapping stuff, there's not many people would know to include some of the things you've added!

@cs I cant reply to you yet mate just tried. I cant be that many posts of now though! I don't really bother with the rest of ATS though, some of the folks are way way way out there and for the life in me I just don't know how to take them seriously

reply to post by IntoTheVortex


Thanks for taking the time out to speak to me,really appreciate it.I hope this will be the start and push i need now ive read some of the posts on surviving as im sure a big incident is very close.I will read the info you have given me,links etc,and will def start scoping places out.Thanks again mate for your helpful and informative reply and i hope you wouldnt mind me asking you the odd question along the way,if it becomes annoying to you,or overly personal please dont hold back from having a go at me i promise no offence will be taken!

Thanks Mate

reply to post by dooleysleftleg


no problem when people are learning I've got all the patience in the world. Another bit of advice is to head what NR says! he really seems to know his stuff.

ask away, if I cant help you others will be able to! oh and Ray Mears!!! that guy is amazing. If you can, go and buy his extreme survival DVD set. I've got it, not for the fact I'll ever be in the sahara or the north pole or anything, just cos its great watching and will help to get you into the mind set. Seeing what people can endure will help you realise the UK is not so bad place after all to be in when SHTF, and its not impossible to live a long time in the wilderness. I'd rather be in the UK than anywhere else in the world. Not cos am patriotic, but cos of the climate and food sources! and lack of predators! there's nothing in the UK that wants to eat you yet you can eat pretty much all the mammals,birds and fish..... well besides maybe a few nutters, and I guess in a crunch in sitX they'd be quite tasty too

The most important bit of advice you can get, and to realise is never give up! never ever let your self think its hopeless! Nature is a wonderful place I prefer camping to being indoors to be honest. There is everything around you that you need to survive once you've learnt how to use it. And if sitX does happen next week.... yeah it'll be hard but you'll learn dam quick to build a shelter and to acquire water and food, it's instinct.

i think your right when u say its better bein outside at one with nature then indoors,and ive always enjoyed campin so thats a start,ray mears is a legend to,i agree,really enjoyed his shows and will def re watch now im thinkin of doin it for myself.cheers again