US Justifies Syrian & Pakistan Raids.

reply to post by jakyll


So, nothing. Thanks for clearing that up. A major in philosophy would fill my head with idealism instead of practicality, too.

reply to post by SuperViking


How typical of you to pick out just one thing so you can attempt to make a smart comment about it.

Why do you bother again?


Oh,and btw,philosophy doesn't equal idealism only,there are many different types.There's even some philosophies that would suit your style of 'thinking.'




[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]

You know things are bad when Syria and Pakistan are considered victims.

I guess it's a testament to how much the Bush administration has destroyed the United States world standing when countries like Syria, Pakistan, and Iran are considered to be "the good guys".

I shouldn't say countries, I should say dictatorships and theocracies. I have zero problem with the people of those nations.

reply to post by Mad Max


You assume too much.

Just because i don't agree with these bombings doesn't mean i consider Syria and Pakistan to be the 'good guys.' Far from it,in fact.

I just see America's policies and behaviour paving the way to something worse.

reply to post by Mad Max


I agree, but not for the same reason, I'm sure. The self-guilt of American and Western European nations is sickening. Like they're upset by their own success. That's a recipe for a nation to fail.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by Mad Max

 

You assume too much.

Just because i don't agree with these bombings doesn't mean i consider Syria and Pakistan to be the 'good guys.' Far from it,in fact.

I just see America's policies and behaviour paving the way to something worse.

My mistake. I apologize. And I do agree whole-heartedly with your closing sentence. I'm just new to site, which I love, and with all of the United States bashing that goes on here I get a little defensive I guess.

As much as the bashing hurts, the fact of what my beloved country has become over at least the last 8 years hurts even more. The truth really does hurt. I don't agree with our military just galliganting around wherever they please and attacking sovereign nations at a whim.

That said, it bugs me even more how most of the world seems to have shifted or distorted their perceptions. Countries like Libya and Syria are allowed to sit on the UN Human Rights Council. Muslim "freedom fighters" are allowed to behead and butcher people on television and no one says a thing. But some chick in the US Army takes some naked pictures of prisoners and that is the 8th deadly sin.

I suppose that's why I want Obama to win the US election. He's the option of the two major candidates that really could change things for the better and curb this barbaric turn the country as taken. Or he could just be a puppet for the powers that be.

[edit on 4-11-2008 by Mad Max]

reply to post by jakyll


So you trust what the Taliban embassy said? Of course they had an idea what was going on. Two weeks later Bin Laden admitted it to the world.

Originally posted by Mad Max
I suppose that's why I want Obama to win the US election. He's the option of the two major candidates that really could change things for the better and curb this barbaric turn the country as taken. Or he could just be a puppet for the powers that be.

Why are those the only two options? Have you ever thought that perhaps he'll see that, yes, projecting American power and protecting American interests overseas is in the best interests of the American state and, thus, people? He can only either "stop the barbarism" or "be a puppet"? That's so myopic.

And of course, scramjet, jackyll tends to believe anyone as long as they oppose the US government.

Mad Max

My mistake. I apologize. And I do agree whole-heartedly with your closing sentence. I'm just new to site, which I love, and with all of the United States bashing that goes on here I get a little defensive I guess.

Apology graciously accepted.And welcome.

I don't bash America,just the government.I bash my own too,their no better.

I think America is a wonderful place and have visited family and friends there many times.And,as you said,its a shame what the Bush administration has tried to turn it into.The people there deserve better.




Scramjet76

If a foreign government asked you to hand over a national hero to stand trial,would you not ask for evidence first??

I don't care what BS bin Laden came out with.No one in their right mind would stage something big as 9/11 and not have an equally destructive next stage to the plan.You should know that i am not one of those who believes in the whole,'it was al-Qaida who did it' BS.Too many things point to that being totally untrue.

And after all the lies and corruptions that the Bush administration has spewed over the years,i trust them about as much as my stalker.

Originally posted by SuperViking

Originally posted by Mad Max
I suppose that's why I want Obama to win the US election. He's the option of the two major candidates that really could change things for the better and curb this barbaric turn the country as taken. Or he could just be a puppet for the powers that be.

Why are those the only two options? Have you ever thought that perhaps he'll see that, yes, projecting American power and protecting American interests overseas is in the best interests of the American state and, thus, people? He can only either "stop the barbarism" or "be a puppet"? That's so myopic.

And of course, scramjet, jackyll tends to believe anyone as long as they oppose the US government.

The "be a puppet" line was sarcasm.

I actually agree with what you say. I just think a different approach needs to be tried. And I think Obama is a better choice than McCain in that respect. It's in the best interest of every power to project and protect their interests overseas, like you wrote. But my opinion is that our methods over much of the last 8 years need to be corrected.

We've used the stick or the threat of the stick too much and now it's time to try the carrot, in a manner of speaking.



[edit on 4-11-2008 by Mad Max]

reply to post by Mad Max


Ah okay, I apologize then. I totally agree. It's not that I don't agree with many of the foreign policy moves of the last 8 years (while I do disagree with many, the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq aren't some of them), but, to it's important to use the stick sometimes and the carrot others, and using the stick for 12 (or 16) years would not be good. Time to play nice guy for a couple years before going back to the grindstone.

Sorry again for the misassumption, looks like Obama's got this one anyway.

reply to post by SuperViking

And of course, scramjet, jackyll tends to believe anyone as long as they oppose the US government.

I oppose their BS war on terror means i oppose everything,right?



Thats logic for ya.Gotta love the simplicity of it.

Originally posted by jakyll
reply to post by SuperViking

 

And of course, scramjet, jackyll tends to believe anyone as long as they oppose the US government.

I oppose their BS war on terror means i oppose everything,right?

Thats logic for ya.Gotta love the simplicity of it.

Grown ups are talking. Go sit down.

reply to post by SuperViking


In a nutshell, that's it. My views on all of this are terribly complicated and I could probably write volumes on it.

reply to post by SuperViking

Grown ups are talking. Go sit down.

Thats your best response.

Oh dear superuperduperviking,you're slipping.Do you need to have a lie down,rest that weary meat head of yours??

I bet you're the kinda American who thinks that such things as the Patriot Act and being held indefinatly without trial,which strips people on their Constitutional rights,are good things.

I'm all for patriotism,but blind patriotism,thats almost as dangerous as blind faith.

I do love the Patriot Act. But then again, I'm one of those crazy people that believes that while it's possible to give up too much liberty for security, it's also possible to ignore security for the sake of liberties too much as well.

Too many people today (idealists, all) seem to believe it only works one way. This is because they've been spoiled by open societies that have never faced a threat which required increased security, and assume that one will never arise.

reply to post by SuperViking


Ahh,that explains why you don't mind your government attempting to take away another countries sovereign rights.Its stripped you of some of yours,therefore they have the right to do it to others as well.Better policies for a better future.

Too many people today (idealists, all) seem to believe it only works one way. This is because they've been spoiled by open societies that have never faced a threat which required increased security, and assume that one will never arise.

Yeah,lord knows Britain has never ever faced threats which require increased security.






[edit on 4-11-2008 by jakyll]

Exactly. I'm glad you're starting to get it.

reply to post by SuperViking


What am i getting

Say it slowly,i'm not quite sure i understand.

You're starting to understand that individual liberties are not the end-all and be-all to a productive and safe society. That's not what it's about. In fact, curtailing those for the greater good is why modern civilization even came about. It's what tribes, city-states, and eventually nations were and are based upon.

Now if you can start to get that a government's responsibility is to it's populace and it's betterment and not non-citizens of other countries- and certainly not to some universal 'good'- you'd be well on your way to seeing the world.