US motor industry: The great breakdown

US motor industry: The great breakdown

www.independent.co.uk

Why stop at the banks? Now governments around the world are pouring taxpayer money in to bail out loss-making financial institutions, it is getting harder to argue against subsidies, loans, guarantees and other forms of government assistance for other industries, too – particularly since the economic pain is now being felt far from Wall Street.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Should the US taxpayers bailout the Big 3? Is the risk of $25B+ of taxpayer money worth trying to salvage a broken US industry. Or is the risk of not trying and ripple effect of job-loss more damaging than the potential $25B+ tax dollar loss?

The Big 3 and UAW have dug their own graves and throwing good money on top of bad is never a good choice. The fundamentals of the Big 3 Autos are still flawed no matter how much money is thrown at them at this point. The UAW needs to be broken prior to any tax payer dollars being issued to the Big 3. If not, they will be right back in a year with their hands out for more life support money and the same poor product, sales and capitalization.

www.independent.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by FX44rice


Fx
There is no doubt with the down turn in the economy, there is going to be changes in industry, the auto makes not withstanding, but why is it your are saying the UAW should be broke?

we have to have someone to throw air pollution and mileage regulation on.

if we had no more US car-makers the foreign car makers could just stop sending new cars if they did not like a new government regulation the tree huggers in the US came up with.

for years land-rover did just this. they stopped selling in the US when calif and a few other states started smog checks and only came back in about 2000.

as long as they have US manufacturers to compete against they have to follow the rules to sell cars here but without us manufacturers why would they.

they would just tell the US to stuff it.

and you know that if Obama gets in there will be a bunch of new regulations.

reply to post by RedGolem

Well I say this because I beleive the fundamental problem with the Big 3 being competitive to the global competition is the cost to produce in the US. The cost to produce a US vehicle is mainly higher due to the union labor cost, and labor quality and efficiency. We can no longer pay assembly workers twice as much as global automakers pay. It is not only the labor on the lines of assembly but all the way down to the unionized janitor that earns pay of $75k per year at GM, Ford, Chrylser.

The Big 3 should be allowed to file bankruptcy and possibly be bought at 20 cents on the dollar from a competing maker such as Nissan, Toyota, etc. Let them buy the Big 3 infrastrcture and start producing their successful products here, and employing, thus reinvigorating our effected local economies.

Wait a minute, I'm in the auto industry and I'm not a janitor and I don't make 75K a year.

The company I work for makes wheels for the auto industry. Were the largest wheel mfg in the world, though we are getting some competition from some punk little upstart called China.

The auto industry is hurting.

I'm all for bailing them out, mainly because my pocket book is on the line.

In the last two years our company in Heber Springs Arkansas closed. Then they closed the Chrome plant in Arkansas, then the Johnson City plant in Kentucky and the the Pittsburg plant......

You know, the writing on the wall might just be saying I should get the hell out of the auto business.

Strange though, we keep opening new plants in Mexico. Soon I'm sure we'll all be swimming south over the border just to get a job.

The flagship plant which I work for has it's employees down to a 24 hour work week, Which has to be tough for them. (Not me though, I have two offices in the place )

The auto industry is a staple of our econamy and it needs help.

Give the brother a hand up, we need it....

I just wanted to let all of my friends know that today, I have made a monumental decision!!!!!!!!!! Today GM common stock dropped another 50 cents,so therefore I have decided to sell TWO shares of GM common stock and buy my two oldest grandsons a Happy Meal!!!!!! How about that?????....
I

reply to post by FX44rice


I'm not sure that cost to produce is all of the picture.

Over here, US cars are on the same footing as other imports - and they just don't stand up in most cases.

Take the Mustang, for example. Nice cars. Had a lot of fun in mustangs, myself. Not a fanboy, but definitely a fan.

I'm looking for a new car at the moment. At the nearest Ford dealer, a 2008 Mustang V8 GT coupe will set me back about 4.5M¥.

Here's 3 other sports coupes/sedans I've been looking at that I can get for the same money or less - 2008 models, all new:

Alfa Romeo 159Ti
BMW 320i (sport package)
Mitsubishi Lancer EVO

Putting those 4 cars back to back, the Mustang just doesn't stand up. The electronics might stand up better than the Alfa's over time, but that's about it. It's better looking than the EVO, but the EVO is a far better car. That V8 sucks back a lot of fuel, and while it might stomp the BMW between the lights, on mountain roads (which is just about all I've got) the BMW's handling would leave the Mustang miles behind and wrapped around a tree - and use less gas doing it.

Why would I choose a Mustang over the other 3?

Why would anyone?

In the USA, prices on domestic cars are lower. In the rest of the world, they have to compete with the rest of the world - and the bang for the buck is just not there.






[edit on 29-10-2008 by vox2442]

reply to post by vox2442

I agree and that is why I purchased an Infiniti for the third time. An article to view from a year ago:

UAW - GM Pact Leaves GM at Cost Disadvantage

www.globalpolitician.com...

US automakers have had the US government's protection for decades.


As a result, the Big 3 have been able to defer and delay the research and product development that would have kept them in good standing to meet global competetion.


"Detroit" over-slept in the nice warm cocoon its Washington lobbyists bought for it. Now the cold winter of discontent has begun, and there is precious little money left in their coffers to burn for warmth.


They do not desrerve our pity, or our help,


BUT...



The tens of thousands of workers who's diplacement would likely throw our economy into a very hard Depression, DO need our concern and assistance.


We cannot afford to cut off our noses to spite our faces.


Sometimes, it appears, you do have to deal with terrorists.

Well it's getting to be supply and demand,if everyone in US are feeling tightness in their budget,then buying a new car would definately take a back seat,people will just do repairs rather then spend 30k on a new car I was thinking of buying a new car,but I would rather save the money,my 2 cars are 2 yrs old I can wait

I think you'd better brace yourselves to give over some more constitutional rights!

Blaminf g the UAW shows how little people outside of the rustbelt know. GM has only management to blame not the UAW. The retirement cost that GM claims are cost they haven't paid over the years they kind of forgot to pay into the pension fund the way the UAW members did and now they want to make everybody think their bill is in the BILLIONS!!! It is only that big because they never lived up to their agreements and paid the money when owed. It's management that makes those decisions not the UAW.

The Big three are symptomatic of everything wrong with American production. They need to go under so that smaller, innovative companies without the baggage can start producing competitive automobiles in the United States.