ATF says it has disrupted skinhead plot to assassinate Obama

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by Helmkat

 

Would you ever wear the shirt in the picture I posted?

No. you wouldn't. Now go ahead and disagree just for the heck of it....

You are correct, I would never wear that shirt.

I look aweful in red.

I am not disagreeing with you really. When I saw the shirt my reaction was and then

Then I realized what was really going on.

As such it was a reminder that I should not be in such a rush to judge people and also that symbols and their meanings are endlessly mutable over time.

What would happen today if children were taught the true history of that symbol? Slowly some old biases would disappear (probably to replaced with something else to point fingers at and go "AHHHHHHHHHHHHH!)

reply to post by ClintK


which really makes people like me look bad, because i keep my hair high and tight.

i play scenario shooting games, and do volunteer rescue work, not to mention i like to wear black, so whenever i'm in regular clothes, or in my uniform, i always get mistaken for a friggin white supremacist .

I don't want to sound like I'm defending skinheads, because I"M NOT. However, a 2-man plot is hardly what I would call the "Skinheads". As a matter of fact, I recall at least 1 of the 2 guys having hair on his head. As bad as the skinheads are, these 2 losers give skinheads a bad name. The article might as well read: ATF says it disrupted KKK plot... I just want the facts to be straight here.

Just my 2-cents

reply to post by TruthTellist


Sure, put them on ignore, because ignoring people who disagree with you is always conducive to the mission statement of ATS, which is to "Deny Ignorance".

If a hindu wore that shirt to a mall in india, that woudn't be an issue. if ANYONE wore a shirt like that in america, it would probably cause trouble, regardless of their religious beliefs...kinda like indians who wear turbins...everyone always thinks their arabs and terrorists. same thing with muslim chicks who wear head scarfs. yet crosses are acceptable, even though the cross was associated with such atrocities as the crusades, which killed so many more people than the nazis ever did, using their hijacked peace symbol.

anyway, i just figured i'd toss that out there....you'll probably put me on ignore as well, but that doesn't really bother me, as i don't see myself having any reason to converse with you again.

reply to post by Daedalus


Until you said it I didn't know he put me on ignore. Oh well. Try to educate some one on the history of the 4 Ls and you get ignored. As you said if the shirt was worn in India or other heavily Hindu populated areas there would be no problem. But in America and most of Europe you will have problems. Or you'll claim, and rightfully so, freedom of speech. But if you get a plan to kill over a hundred people because they are black that waaaay crosses a line.

Originally posted by GamerGal
reply to post by TruthTellist

 

Guy looks like he may be Hindu. The Swastika is four Ls, Luck, Life, Liberty, and Love in Hinduism.

Uh, yeah. I challenge any person, any color, to try wearing that shirt here in America and see how far they get down a public street in a big city without getting their a$$ beat. I'm betting they don't make it 3 blocks.

[edit on 29-10-2008 by sos37]

reply to post by TruthTellist

Actually....there was recently a movement to de-stigmatize the swastika and make it mainstream again. The Nazi's used the symbol long after, and for a different meaning than the previous users.

In reality, it's just a symbol....

reply to post by sos37


I'm betting they do. This is AMerica, freedom of speech. The KKK and Neo Nazis can march in the streets, if they get a permit. The Black Panthers can march down one street while the Nazis march up the other. That's the beauty of America.

Sounds kind of like the cat that drags a dead gopher it has killed and left it on the front porch to show they are doing their jobs

Let's get something straight here, folks: real skinheads aren't the racist buffoons you see on talk shows. In fact, the movement started (and in many places and circles is STILL maintained as) a non-racist working class youth culture. In fact the first skins were black AND white youths in the UK in the late 1960s.

en.wikipedia.org...

I think these nazi clowns would probably crap themselves with terror if they realized the style they're copping owes a great deal to black carribean culture.

reply to post by Doom and Gloom


Interesting that you have a black wife because your statement spoke otherwise. No one owes any one anything but it is true nothing in life is free. I just think it's different that it seems that white people feel discriminated against. Maybe they are. It's something to look into. Discrimination is the worst.

American bred domestic terrorism at its worst; racial zealots right under own own noses.

I wonder what this group of people think about the concept of jihad. In both cases, the ultimate goal is to kill as many infidels as possible, but I would not be surprised if they would willing kill each other, if given the chance; hopefully they will get that chance.

reply to post by GamerGal

Wonderful, and some adversaries of skinheads then get the idea that its OK to adopt blacks into the skinhead movement when everyone knows skinheads that are radical do not like blacks and side with the KKK and if this were a Chinese holiday in Chicago, Illinois (China Town). I guess it might be the Latino type of gang members that do not know what you are talking about and this then could spark some anger against Jennifer Hudson's Nephew Julian King whom is the fourth killed so far in murders. The vehicle type fits the Latino favorite vehicle type. This really looks strange following the news of the shooting of King. A Round Lake home invasion (October 30, 2008) got 2 teens arrested, 18-year-old Jose Jiminez, 19-year-old Pedro Aguilar,

...

...

another 16-year-old boy forced their way into a home Wednesday morning and robbed a woman inside and then fled in her car. Police spotted the victim's stolen car a short time later. The driver ran away. But the 16-year-old suspect was found hiding in a nearby dumpster. He is set to appear in juvenile court. Latino's get the short end of the argument if they went to be a member of a terrorist group, but if they had once been approached by a secret covert group and they were compared to some skinheads that could do the job better they surely would get angered not being accepted on sight and this might also prove that a member of theirs whom is older has been accepted and he angered because of the younger Latino still hanging with those two first arrested. Are they involved is the question but not in Chicago Illinois means they are innocent until proven guilty?

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

Wrong about the skinheads not being racists, many radical skinheads are & have been to KKK meetings. Mots KKK try to say that skinheads are not radical in order to get their admittance to rallies, many of the KKK do not care if they come & speak but its the karma thing either the image of the KKK falls or the public gets more angered as a result. This was televised about the KKK and the members of the militia group of the KKK whom was arrested.

I was thinking out loud in a reply to GamerGal when I mentioned that some skinheads got eliminated from a larger group of terrorists which had already accepted one older Latino whom owned the vehicle left at the scene of the King murder, so a different vehicle would have been transport from there, this Round Lake arrest happened recently, just another round of activity for some Latinos that meant to leave a statement by leaving the vehicle at the scene, and this time they were apprehended but does the Chicago Police get a eyebrow over this 3some arrest just the 29th of October or do the 3some walk away without being suspected in a earlier murder. The police say more than one was involved and that means something to me. So where is this covert terrorist group & the older Latino that is a member and whom did they suggest the older Latino to execute for becoming a believable member? I think this could go back several months, being sometime that the older Latino was out with the terrorists, talking about a yr of indoctrination and more than a year of being together. If the Chicago Police do not connect the dots soon there probably will be four more killings.

Does the name Donald Young (murder update), a known Gay Choir Leader, ring a bell, the one whom is with the UTTC & was the big snooper and was hurt by Larry Sinclair making a statement about Obama in phone calls that he called Sinclair several times & the last time Sinclair called him he was found dead later? Could this be aggression against Blacks by Latinos & skinheads or the way I see this as a covert terrorist group that wanted to shut-up Donald Young, African-American Gay Community Scared Over Deaths. Choir conductor found murdered December 23, 2007! Murder Rocks Chicago Church Community.

Larry Sinclair is far from the left where Obama & Young shared intimate relationships together according to Sinclair received a call from Young trying to get Young to lay off, knew him to be gay choir director now lover. It don't surprise me that this information proves Young was the nosiest person involved at UTCC & would have known more about Rev. Wright than the church wanted him to know but this is not the reason I think for Young's murder. The knowledge Young obtained I think stems out of seeking from reports about Rezno & Wright's interest in Lebanese Covert Terrorist operations known as Alliances competing against Osama Bin Laden in Lebanon & Syria that were against Israel & this involved corporates in Lebanon supplying goods and weapons to them and contacts in the USA. Young was so accurate in investigating the UTCC but did not want to blame itself but wanted exposure of that aspect yet he did not act quick enough & was killed to stop exposure. The Covert Terrorists also got goods in the USA, most often the Chinese Communications reseller in Greece that sold to corporates in Lebanon such things as Internet Cable Cutters etc. Obam's idea - US Govt take over of Alliances - talk to em, etc..

reply to post by prototism

Your confusing the issue, Osama Bin Laden's Alliances are totally to the left of the Alliances which you are referring to which operate in Lebanon and Syria but they are firm believers in every old Muslim rule, while the new Muslim rule gives Muslims a chance to leave and not return if that is the truth they want and that is terrorism, they are forced not to return or face ultimate persecution, that is death. Their choice depends on their contacts whom lead them to one Alliance or the other Alliance and distribution of all of them are in different Alliances according to Osama Bin Laden which is not the same idea of management as the other Alliance has being a single entity to itself and only for domination. No wonder the Lebanese Alliance does not want Osama Bin Laden messing things up they would become many Alliances instead of one main Alliance.

Back on the topic of controlling Alliances, two+more of one commits to ending one, Obama's plan which is to dominate and control Osama Bin Laden by siding with the Alliance whom Rev. Wright knows and of whom Louis Farrakhan knows (one in the same) except this also includes another known as the PLO whom does business for food and weapons and fuel with the Lebanese Alliance. All Osama Bin Laden wants is fuel rationing from the Alliance whom can get it from the Palestine's (PLO Alliance). Obama as President of the USA feels he can guide the one Alliance to lead the way for their success as a Muslim society and thereby eliminate Osama Bin Laden the other Alliances of what was and still operates as the AlQuada. Obama wants American Tax Payers to feel that this is necessary so tax restructuring is necessary to bring down some of the corporates that feed the corporates in Lebanon which are against Israel, Rev. Wright's idea. If folks like Joe The Plumber are dumb enough their tax money is available according to Obama, & he believes that stating trickle down would help the middle class and hurt Joe The Plumber. Joe was telling a story of a single manned business that had no sub ordinate employees so a trickle down does not mean his employees would be seen to as being treated fairly. Obama really does not know anything of a single manned business, a Living Tax Exempt Trust, & the supporting of Tax Exempt Foundations, & the use of business expenses, and the purchases of United States Savings Bonds (help decrease the National Debt) which can be later turned into electronic US Savings Bonds at the US Treasury online. Those are the thinks that Obama did not mention to Joe The Plumber and I would have told Joe the truth that there are ways to decrease your own taxes and not lose any money. Hey, thats how many of the Lebanese corporate millionaires do it every year & some of them live in America too.

reply to post by TruthTellist

Interesting remark GamerGal made about Hindu tradituional thought towards patterns and designs. I believe knowing this abouyt the Hindu I would request them to make some changes in their definitions of symbolism but then they got to go back into Iraq where they had been and Saddam had killed several Hindu Monks just because they were there when Saddam was alive and considering some demolition of statues relative to Hinduism.

GamerGal Statement: The Swastika is four Ls, Luck, Life, Liberty, and Love in Hinduism.

But couldn't some miss informed people get the wrong impression if watching such a dressed individual walking the streets in China Town or any Chinese occupied location and if walking past some Skinheads that did not know what those symbols meant to the wearer might not matter since they mean something more to the Skinheads.



image rource source: www.guti.ru...

Could that be a improper dress attire format for a religious expression in trhe United States, what about in Israel?
Glad that you brought this (image source) to the attention of Above Top Secret.

[edit on 1-11-2008 by OoTopNotchoO]

reply to post by OoTopNotchoO


Of course. As I said in America and Europe people would have problems. But that is because to us it is NAZI, Hitler, WWII, Genocide. But to a Hindu it means as I said. If only we could teach that to our people. Not to fear a symbol, or hate a symbol. Like someone said what if Hitler used the Cross? What would have happened? Would Jesus then have died on a Y?

[edit on 1-11-2008 by TruthTellist]

To bad we can't have these type of losers in an arena fight to the last breath with all the other intolarant extremist groups. Entertainment is the only value some people have. I would buy tickets.

Sounds to me like a plant,for the most part if they were members of some gang chances are they are felons,and wouldn't vote anyway,using the word skinhead is racial profiling,for an example person hangs Sarah Palin in effigy has it up for weeks nothing happens,2 students hang Obama in effigy,they are arrested,sounds way too convienant,something is already in order I'm thinking