Obama 2001 Redistribution of Wealth Audio Uncovered

reply to post by Karlhungis

Obama seems to want to give more to the middle class and below, by taxing the wealthy.

There's your problem right there. He wants to give more to the middle class.....
Please..... He wants to give it to the poor. The same poor who already receive food stamps, free insurance, subsidized housing, help with utilities and many other things that are reserved for them.

Besides his little rebate check he will send middle class, what else do they get? That check still depends on his windfall profit plan.


I know they will get the brunt of the increases taxes state, city, and county will increase to make up for Washington bad policies. I know they will get the increase in prices with Congress increase in Corporation taxes.

For what it's worth, I am fairly amused by both cantidates by this point. McCain particularly so, claiming that NO one will have taxed raised under him. Yea.. right. I believe that one, tell me another.

We just went into massive, huge debt trying to bail out companies. We are going to have to pay it back. There is no way possible that in the coming years, we won't have our taxed raised, it doesn't matter who is in office. It's going to happen.

You all act like Obama is poor and trying to get money for himself. You do know that he is rich right? He isn't talking about communism where the rich become middle class and the poor become middle class and the middle class stays the same. He is simply saying that if you have a lot of money then you can afford to pay a bit more. Raising taxes on the poor helps no one...

reply to post by goldbomb444

He is simply saying that if you have a lot of money then you can afford to pay a bit more. Raising taxes on the poor helps no one...

You can't raise taxes on the poor. All you can do is give them more.

If you have a lot of money you can afford to pay more. But one could also say that if our government did their job right and spend only what is necessary people wouldn't have to pay more.

And finally, once again, the rich have the resources to hire the best accountants and lawyers to ENSURE they pay the minimum.
In addition, Congress, not Obama will decide who gets a tax increase and who gets a freebie.
Furthermore, if the rich, like Buffet are so willing to pay more nothing has been holding them back the last eight years. All they had to do was to overlook many of the deductions they took. No where in the tax book does it say that one has to take the deductions. Guess they weren't too willing to pay more after all.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


Not since the 20s has the wealth gap between the rich and poor been so great in this nation. GWB's tax policies have disproportionately favored the wealthy at the expense of poor and middle class families who have seen real incomes decline during his tenure.

Do the rich understand how many people are struggling just to pay for food, clothes and shelter? Or how many people have no access to health care? I understand human selfishness and the desire to get more for oneself, but the wealthy should be concerned about the lack of balance in the system. At some point, people will revolt.

Warren Buffett makes the argument against the current tax system when he reports that he pays less tax than the secretaries in his office pool (www.washingtonpost.com...). In fact, he paid 17.7 percent on his income while his receptionist was taxed about 30%. How can anyone call this fair?

I understand that all Obama is proposing is to roll back taxes on the wealthy to the Clinton era. The wealthy seemed to do pretty well back then too. (Note: I haven't verified that statement carefully).

If I had my druthers, I would prefer to see the Income Tax abolished and replaced with a sales tax--with groceries and basic clothing expenses exempted from taxation.

Sigh

The fact that anyone is even supporting and defending this statement made by Obama is saddening. We could wake up a week from wednesday and see our entire world turned upside down when this guy is in office...and i mean that in a bad way.

Why raise taxes to the highest percentage? So they can leave the country like so many other companies have already?

This man is a threat to all of our rights and the constitution...and people will blindly vote for the man just because they think he's going to change things for the good.

People are willing to throw their will to the influence of our government and let them take care of everything and control their lives when their butts could get up and do it themselves. The government is our problem..it's too damn big! He's just going to make it larger. We wouldn't have to pay the taxes we do if the government didn't spend us into oblivion.

I'm absolutely disgusted at the direction this country has turned. People are willing to throw away everything this country has stood on for over 200 years. We should all be so lucky to even have the fortune of being able to live under a constitution such as ours....and people are willing to throw it away for money. People throw all there hopes into this man....and he's going to dupe them all...they just don't realize it yet.

I really just don't know what else to say anymore. Why do i even freakin bother

I do not make anywhere close to the 200k or 250k a year. I most likely never will either.

I know that some of the CEOs need to be striped of their ill gotten wealth as they did not work for it but stole it and helped to put the economy the way it is now. On the other hand many out there that make that kind of money have worked very hard to get it and keep it. They work hard to earn the toys they have (even though they have so many more than I do that are even better than I could imagine).

I will say though that his idea is Marxist and socialist. I do not feel I should have what I have worked hard for (no matter how little I have) just to give to someone who does not work as hard as I do. In that type of society what is the use in working hard when we all get the same treatment. Should hard work not be rewarded and laziness not be punished? I even went back to school (will soon be graduating) in order to better myself some hopefully. Guess what I am paying the full ride myself and it is hard, I make just barely too much to get help but not enough to be able to do it without paying on loans for the rest of my life. I refuse to let someone come in at take away what I have worked hard for just to let some lazy sack get something for nothing. I am sure that many of those making over 200k or 250k a year feel the same way.

I may never have what they have but I do not believe in stealing from them either. But I think it is coming no matter what side takes the win.

Raist

Originally posted by David9176
We could wake up a week from wednesday and see our entire world turned upside down when this guy is in office...and i mean that in a bad way.

Actually I believe it would be more sideways. You know, since it's an even redistribution

Originally posted by goldbomb444
Raising taxes on the poor helps no one...

Ever play the lotto? Do you have any idea why state lotteries were developed in the first place?

State run lotteries were developed as a means of taxing a populace that pay no tax. Poor people do not pay taxes, unless they play the lottery.

The one thing NO ONE here has discussed is the pathway to citizenship "O" intends on providing 13 million illegal aliens. Folks, if this man gets into office, the middle class won't be taxed, they'll be abolished.

And the only reason anyone could argue taxing the rich is because they don't fall under that catagory.

Let me ask you this... How would everyone feel if the Powers that be at ATS demanded in order to post on ATS for free, you had to send BTS $20 a month because they didn't generate enough traffic for ad revenues?

??

reply to post by TheRooster


and the rooster is crowing the truth.....

In addition to lotto, I have to add in those taxes on cigs and beer.....

sin taxes if you must

Originally posted by Raist
In that type of society what is the use in working hard when we all get the same treatment.

The harder you work, the more treatment, potentially the better of treatment, everyone would get

Also, some propose a system of socialism where the 'treatment' is the items of 'necessity' that is ensured. Whereas the 'toys' are not, and is rewarded for 'harder work'. There are different implementations for every political philosophy. There is more then one kind of Socialism. For instance, not all of them are 'Marxist'.

It's a shift from working for yourself to working for society, and in turn society rewards you by being a better society.

Anyways, Obama is not a socialist. He is indeed a democrat and they are consistently very big government capitalists. Obama is not any different. If he got elected our society would not be forced into socialism (which btw is socialism AND autocracy. Dictatorship is the element that makes socialism fail). Labeling Obama a Marxist or a Socialist is absolutely asinine. One could take even more things our of his plans and ideas and just as easily call him a Capitalist.

Corporate America will still embrace commercialism and capitalism when the new President comes in. Don't worry corporations will still be able to influence government decisions. You will still be exploited. No need to worry.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Lucid Lunacy]

Under Obama's tax plan, i'll get a 500 dollar tax cut. Yep 500 hundred dollars a year. Hell, why not send us another welfare check called a stimulus plan? That's even less than i received from the last one! Look at all the good those plans did too....yep...we are all better off now...LOL. ALso...he's going to let the Bush tax cuts expire...which means you won't be so much better off than you thought.

Just think of all the extra crap everyone is going to buy instead of paying their DAMN BILLS!!!!

It's just more of the same BS and i'm freakin sick of it.

reply to post by jam321


Add casinos into that as well.

What gets me now is that food stamps used to only be for things one needed to sustain life. Now they get a nice little debit card they can use on anything. It makes me feel all warm inside to know I am paying someone to sit home watch TV, smoke and drink themselves into a stupor while their children live on little or nothing.

Raist

First off I would like to point out the FACT that some people (even here in this thread) talk about "poor" people like they are some kind of leech, or lower life form that deserves to be poor and suffer.
As if they DECIDED "hey I'm just going to be flat broke, have no chance at success, no health care, and go into MORE debt just to buy heating oil to keep my family from freezing to death."

The choice was made for them, and against their will may I add, by the rich fascist pieces of human trash who are sucking the life out of this nation like vampires.

All this talk of taxing this person or group more than others will fix everything is absolute rubbish. In case you don't know (which most of you seem not to) the taxes that are illegally collected from citizens do NOT go into government coffers to be used for ANYTHING.
It goes directly into the pockets of the fascist fat cat bankers who control the "federal" reserve. I would also like to point out that the "federal" reserve is no more federal than federal express, it is a privately owned monster.

The real problem (that nobody seems to see because the "powers that be" have us fighting amongst ourselves too much to see reality) is that this entire governmental structure is corrupted at every level. It is so pervasive and far reaching that "we the people" have NO chance of ever fixing it. It is like a cancer that has spread through EVERY cell of this entity we call america.

You will NEVER see a politician try to fix the real problems with this government. Why? Because these same politicians profit from the same corrupt system they CLAIM to want to fix.
It is nothing more than smoke and mirrors to make you want to vote for them, while they have multiple "houses" (their "houses" are more like mansions to the average american who can barely afford to feed their family) cars, bank accounts, etc etc.

They have the wool pulled over your eyes so firmly that if someone tries to show you the truth, you pull the wool back over your own eyes FOR them.

I firmly believe that there is NO way the average citizen can win against them. They have "the deck" stacked, all laws, all legislation, is in favor of them, and against us. Sure they may institute welfare programs, or do minor little superficial things to make you THINK that they have our interests at heart, because if they didn't we would revolt and "the game" would be over for them.

What we NEED to do is stop arguing over which fascist, elitist, vampire would be best for us, and realize that NONE of them are best for us.

What IS best for us, (and the ONLY thing that can save the average person from being victimized further) is to enact our constitutionally given right to remove this entire government from power and install a new one.

Don't listen to me though, arguing amongst ourselves has done us so much good this far now hasn't it?

There is ONE and ONLY ONE thing that they fear, and that is the mass awakening of america, and the revolution that would follow. Because they know that is the ONLY thing that can save us from them.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Wrong if one works harder they get nothing in return while the one who sits on the side gains because of the others hard work.

I believe all sides should be working the same.

I am not saying we would instantly be socialist but we certainly are sliding that way. It is being put into the minds of the youth that it is okay to steal from the rich and give to the poor. As I said I am far from ever making that much but I am not for taking what I did not earn either. Only those who are just as selfish as the ultra rich stealing from the poor would believe in such a thing. The spread the wealth thing is nothing more than flat out socialism.

Raist

I know a lot of McCain supporters are very upset about the direction of the tide. Let me just say my little bit on this: Obama supporters do not want to see you hurt by policy changes. Obama supporters do not want to take all of your wealth from you. Yes, many of us disagree with many of you on many subjects, but at the end of the day this is a republic and we have the right to vote. We have the right to say that regardless of your fears which we see as exaggerated and untenable, we will take a chance on the "New Guy". Obama supporters are not fifth columnists trying for a round three in history's Great Experiments in Communism. I support Obama because I think his ideas are better than McCain's, because I've seen eight years of the opposite policy hurt my country terribly, and because I am ready and willing to take a risk on something new. He's not radically new, despite the greatest hopes of some of his supporters and the greatest fears of his detractors, but it is a change from what we've had and it's a change I'd like to see. Let's all try and be civil about this, OK?

Originally posted by Raist
I may never have what they have but I do not believe in stealing from them either. But I think it is coming no matter what side takes the win.

Corporate America steals from US all the time, that's part of the problem here.

I believe that was the overwhelming consensus here on ATS when they were talking about passing the Bail Out, no? Even more important, the overwhelming consensus from the general public, the taxpayers, was a resounding No. It got passed anyways, and we paid for it.

Originally posted by Raist
Wrong if one works harder they get nothing in return while the one who sits on the side gains because of the others hard work.

Yes I realize that is the mentality of almost everyone on this forum right now

Like I said, there is many flavors and theoretical implementation to this political philosophy just as there is for others. Most members are not willing to even discuss it because the mob mentality has demonized it.

Originally posted by Marcus Calpurnius
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

I would rather a Marxist then a capitalist pig. And if I have a say in the matter, I would

This is what we face folks. Posting stuff like this on this forum is pointless, because its full of Marxists, socialist and Communists. I think many people voting for Obama are either just gullible, or they are truly Marxist/Socialists. The same goes for our media, which is why they are deflecting this story at all costs. We are in real trouble fellow Americans......

The one message I have for you Lucid Lunacy, is that you better be willing to fight for it, because many Americans would rather die than let their country be hijacked like that. People will fight.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Marcus Calpurnius]

I never get where a lot of these comments come from. The use of these words "communist/marxist/socialist" as if they were interchangable ideas.
They are ideas that have their bearings in the 19th century, in a time that misusing workforce (children included) was still an elegant idea. Why are they still so much in use?? Has it to do with the US education or media?

In Western Europe we are quite familiar with these ideas (they let the Russian Communist perform this big experiment next door) and we tried to evolve a little into an era where the workforce has rights like healthcare and a pension and vacation (we do have a lot of vacation compared to the sorry bunch in the states).

And yes, we pay taxes! I am proud of it, and I pay a lot. This means I contribute in a society that at this moment has the lowest unemployment and is one of the richest of the world, and has the best education and healthcare in the world. (That does not mean that we are the coolest, we harbor idiots too!)

With governments that had to reign often as partners with parties like liberals/christian democrates/socialist and currently environmentalists ideas evolved into something that could be called post-socialism and post-liberalism. The idea that stands somewhere in the middle of all this is CARE and Live Together and Manage a colorfull society. In the meanwhile industrials and lobbiers rule of course, but they have to give a little to get what they want.

In the eyes of commentators on this board all this amount to one thing: Marxists! NWO! they shout.

I have posted it before but I will try to educate again. There is a dynamic here. Nothing to do with liberalism or marxism, it is a dynamic.
Centralism and decentralism are two values in the same graph. Like Freedom and Regulated Control. Look at the graph and think where you should be.

Centralization
|
|
|
|
|____________Decentralization


Freedom
|..................*Ideal Spot!
|
|
|
|___________Regulated control

Well functioning Decentralization does not work without central governing, so that when something goes wrong, like a flood in your village the others come to help you.

Freedom without Regulated Control will only give you canabalism.
Regulated Control without Freedom is slavery.

Originally posted by ashamedamerican
First off I would like to point out the FACT that some people (even here in this thread) talk about "poor" people like they are some kind of leech, or lower life form that deserves to be poor and suffer.

The choice was made for them, and against their will may I add, by the rich fascist pieces of human trash who are sucking the life out of this nation like vampires.

They made their own choice and now they are poor because of it.
Plenty examples out there where people have pulled themselves out of the gutter and decided to not be victims. Obama for one is a good example.