India's Chandrayaan Blasts Off To The Moon!

reply to post by LunaCognita


OK, now is the first pic fudged? This is the original Viking image by MSSS. Check out the colors of the flag painted on Viking. It's clear as day that the the red filter has been turned up. The question is - WHY?



Now here's what it probably looks like:


Courtesy: MSSS

I'm referring the colors of the painted flag as the basis of my argument.

Smells of a conspiracy as big as the Himalayas!



[edit on 9-12-2008 by mikesingh]

I agree Mike. Smells REALLY bad. Color manipulation is so absurdly easy to do, and these guys are masters (and originators) of that art. Here is the same Viking image that you show above, but this one I acquired from the CBC (Canadian Broadcasting Corp) film archives. Note the totally different color characteristics that the CBC version carries? Maybe the CBC spiked it themselves, but still an interesting comparison.


Here are a couple other Viking images showing the lander’s meteorological boom and the surface backdrop behind. Both of these are from the NASA archives.

This first one is NASA press release image #77-HC-62 (note that this image also appears to be cataloged as frame# 77-H-112).
www.nasm.si.edu...

This next one is a larger scene NASA Viking mosaic showing the same meteorological boom with far different color characteristics. www.nasm.si.edu...

I tell ya, trying to analyze and determine NASA’s definition of “true color” on Mars is an exercise in futility.

On a related note, keep in mind that the only way the public can determine the true color of the Martian surface is to rely on NASA. Sure, telescopes here on Earth show you a largely brown ball, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you are looking at anything close to a “true color” view of Mars.

For example, if you are in lunar orbit or cislunar space looking back at the Earth, you can stare right at South America and the lush, green Amazon rain forest, and to the human eye from that distance it will appear brown (I have some great audio of astronaut Jim Lovell talking about this in an interview). This is because of atmospheric color canceling effects that absorb most of the green wavelength, rendering green things brown when viewed from cislunar+ distances.

So, if you are down here on Earth looking through a telescope at Mars, that light from Mars is being forced to travel through Earth’s atmosphere (which we know cancels most of the green wavelength) before it gets to the telescope, AND that reflected light off the Martian surface is also coming at us after having passed through whatever color canceling effects the Martian atmosphere may cause as well. Scary, isn’t it? Unfortunately, the fact is that the only way to know the true color of the Martian surface is to go there, because taking NASA‘s word for it is a scary proposition if you are hunting for the truth.

Cheers!

[edit on 9-12-2008 by LunaCognita]

Originally posted by zorgon
If I adjust the Mars photos on a given day to match what the sundial shows and match that to what it looks like on Earth, can I not be reasonable sure that if I was standing on Mars this is what my eyes would see?

The problem is that you can only do that if the image you have has the right data, doing it with an image for which there is no Red channel, for example, will not make a true colour image, regardless of what you do to it.

Continuing with my tests from last week, I also took photos of a colour target from an old HP scanner. This is how it looks in a common photo, taken with a RGB digital camera and reproduced as a RGB image.



The same colour target, if I use the Ultraviolet photo instead of the Blue channel, looks like this.


I was expecting a bigger difference in colours, but even with this we can see that the top right square does not look blue as it should, even without that yellow tint that affects most of image (I had to take several photos to create the complete target, I only had a LED, but some areas were not as well lighted than others, creating that "dirty" effect), so I have to get back to the images of the sundial, but I thought that I should post what I had done.

Originally posted by zorgon
And is that not the purpose of putting the color wheel on the Rover in the first place so we have a way to adjust that color?

If I adjust the Mars photos on a given day to match what the sundial shows and match that to what it looks like on Earth, can I not be reasonable sure that if I was standing on Mars this is what my eyes would see?

As I started saying in my previous post, if the original photo was made with a RGB combination and reproduced as RGB, then you could use the target to adjust the colours, but if the image is not made with the right data, no amount of adjustment can bring data there was not there.

Using the sundial photo from Spirit's Sol 2, this is what it looks if we use the Red, Green and Blue channels.

L4+L5+L6


But if we use the L3 filter (670nm) instead of the L4 filter (600nm), the result is different, and we can not adjust it to get the real colours.

L3+L5+L6


As the problem is that the Blue was changed to Purple, while the other colours remain more or less the same, we cannot get the blue back, even using the colour replacement option in Photoshop, the image does not look exactly as it should, and if we had a gradient from Purple to Green, for example, only the Purple would be changed to Blue, the different shades could not be changed without affecting the Green.

This is what it looks after the colour replacement.

L3+L5+L6 after colour replacement


But if what we have is the most common situation with the Rovers' photos, then we have an image made with the L2 (750nm), L5 and L6 (or L7) filters, and it would look like this.

L2+L5+L6


You can see that both the Green and the Orange patches are Orange, so we cannot recover the original colours, if we change Orange to Green we will loose the original Orange, if we keep the Orange then we loose the Green.

So, if we have the right channels, Red, Green and Blue (or close to it, I have yet to understand why this works with an Orange filter instead of a Red filter) we can reproduce the colours, but if we do not then we have less probabilities of reproducing the right colours, and the farther away from the visible light the worst it gets.

Some more space and anti-space photos to play with ;-)

(from eol.jsc.nasa.gov...)

Mirror, mirror on the wall; what´s the sun and what´s a lamp?

Greetings!!




eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

Hey guys been busy a few days and Tuesday have to go with John to the Mine to shut it down for the winter...

Anything exciting from India last few days?

reply to post by zorgon


Nothing.

The way things are, I think we will see first the images from Kaguya.

ISRO's as dead as the Dodo!

The last we had news flowing from them was when them dinosaurs roamed the earth!!

This is one of the greatest aunty..errr..anti-climax to hit the dark-side!

MikeS! Why dont you expand the scope of this thread by giving it a title of something like "Chandrayaan goes missing on the moon - ATS theorists to the rescue"

NEWS FLASH!!!

This just in...

Chandrayaan Missing on the Moon...

There has been no word from the ISRO's moon craft for weeks.

We hear from a reliable source, the Setinel, that the craft has hit the dark side of the moon... this is unconfirmed at this time but no signal has been received.

We have asked our 'on the scene' reporter Mike Singh to check his sources, but have not heard back.

Rumors are starting to spread like wild fire throughout the internet that it has suffered the same fate as China's and Japan's recent attempts. It is still unclear if China ever made it to the Moon considering the recent faking of the Beijing Olympics using fake fire works, a substitute 'singer' and 'difficulty' in providing proof of age of several athletes. Also the recent badly faked space walk shows a predilection to hoaxing. One is reminded of the controversy surrounding the one and only released moon image.

Japan, like ISRO, had a strong start... but both have now ended in a 'no show'

ATS, one of the biggest conspiracy news sites has picked up on this and comments from posters show the disappointment. Here are a few sample comments...


"ISRO's as dead as the Dodo!"

"The last we had news flowing from them was when them dinosaurs roamed the earth!!"

"This is one of the greatest aunty..errr..anti-climax to hit the dark-side!"

Stay tuned for updates

Pictures at eleven...

[edit on 15-12-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon
We have asked our 'on the scene' reporter Mike Singh to check his sources, but have not heard back.

Ok, I'm Back! From the dark side! Naaa! Nothing's happened to Chandrayaan! Only, they've found huge glass domes and other artificial structures that are being steadily airbrushed at ISRO!

Now don't expect them to do that in a hurry. After all you can't compare them to NASA who have been in the tampering game for half a century!

Cheers!

Not exactly what I was expecting, and not really new (the data is from November 22), but this is the last information from Chandrayaan-1 that I know, thanks to the Zvezdichko, a member in a space exploration forum.

First Peek at M3 Data

reply to post by ArMaP


ArMaP, I love your ability to anaylize images, especically (possible poor spelling) when it comes to interpretting images transmitted from other planets.

I believe we can ALL agree that any planet in our Solar System (except for the obvious possibility that various moons might interfere, by altering the reflected light of the Sun?) will shine based upon the well-known spectrum of OUR Sun.

The colors we are familiar with, here on Earth, are what results after regular Sunlight filters down through OUR atmospere. After all, we are (humans) physically adapted to see in certain spectra, with our natural eyes....(we don't, for instance, see in the infrared or the UV unless mechanically enhanced)...

Other species on Earth can see different spectra....bees, to name one example, can see into the UltraViolet.

THAT species adapted...even in our Earthly environment, because that's how Evolution works! Adaptation, to conform to changing conditions, when necessary.

But, this isn't about evolution, it is about the perception of colors, and HOW they are perceived by our various machines, compared to how they are perceived by the human eye.

I have read that color-blindness, as it's called, mostly occurs in male Humans. I actually KNOW a man who cannot discern red from green...one of the most severe forms of 'color-blindness'...

This man can drive a car, of course, because you can learn the standardized traffic-light configurations. BUT, he would never be able to fly an airplane, because the color-blindness tests are much more subtle, since I have seen them. I know this because I have held an FAA-approved Medical for more than 30 years, and part of the test includes the color charts. ("What number do you see?" is part of the color test....if you are 'color-dumb' you either don't see the actual numbers, or you see other numbers....either way, it shows your defiency....)

OK, back to the point: A machine 300,500 km away, or millions of km away must use some system to record, and then send, 'photographs' so that we poor Earthlings can try to intrepret them.

I have seen so many 'blogs' where the inference is...."Just take a Polaroid" , inferring that then we all can see it. Well, just WHO is going to bring that Polaroid Picture back to Earth?????

To summarize: Our Human eyes see a narrow spectrum of what we call 'visible' light. It suited our species, as we evolved. We now have machines able to see other spectra, that we can use our huge brains to interpret. We Humans also learned, through study, that not EVERY species on our planet views the World through the same spectra as we....so, I think we should be somewhat humbled by this, to realize that we are NOT to think, anymore, that we dominate the Planet.

oooooooooooooh

it's just gone missing huh?



wZn

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

Says who? It's alive and kicking!! But no more Moon images from ISRO until they brush out the 'Towers of Hoagland'!! And Mike Bara's Moon bases!! Lol!

Damn! They're all in it together, aren't they? NASA, ESA, JAXA, ISRO, CNSA! So can we do anything about it? YES WE CAN!! (Now where the dickens did I hear this phrase before??) All we gotta do is contribute to zorgon's tin can which he calls a space shuttle and get our boots on the Moon!

Zorg! Where on Earth are you? Get cracking man. Shake a leg and get things a movin'! We can't expect anything to come out of these space agencies, can we?

Cheers!

Well....I TRIED to bring up a point, namely, that the ability to portray actual images, and the proper colors, via a digital system over hundreds, or even millions of kilometers, is NOT the same as taking a 'Polaroid' picture (obsolete?), or using your SLR camera with a variety of film speeds, say, ASA-100 to -1000....OR, using your digital camera, (assuming you are there in person) and expecting the same results every time!!!!!

I would invite people to consider the beautiful works by many photographers, and I will use as my first example Ansel Adams.

Anyone who doesn't believe that the Earth is full of color would look at many of Mr. Adams' work and conclude that they were somehow, "faked".

(By the way, Ansel Adams DID work in color as well, but he is most famous for his B/W photography).

Pouncing on that notion, of Mr. Adams' color photography....I've seen an exposition of his work, when it was on display here in DC. ANYONE who understands photography knows how f-stops and exposure times, and lenses chosen (among other factors) will incredibly alter the final resulting photo. This, of course, refers to traditional ideas of film emulsion, on a negative, and the resulting positive print.

When we are imagining how DIGITAL photos are created, then we must bow to ArMaP to help explain. (Is it done by CCD, or some other technology?).

(edit)....third paragraph, I said it backwards: if anyone doesn't believe the earth is full of color, they might think that Ansel Adam's B/W pics were faked...sorry for the error....

[edit on 12/18/0808 by weedwhacker]

m3 science . google it for chandrayaan.

Just to add on....I think all of us know that our Human eyes (unaided) can only percieve in a certain portion of the EM Spectrum....

That's kinda sorta why we see the daytime sky as 'blue'...or even variations of 'blue', depending on how the sunlight is refracting through our atmosphere.....but, THAT is the point!!!

On another planet, different atmosperic composition, different refraction of the spectra....SO, colors are altered to look 'OK' for our eyes....getting it yet???

Originally posted by ArMaP
Not exactly what I was expecting, and not really new (the data is from November 22), but this is the last information from Chandrayaan-1 that I know, thanks to the Zvezdichko, a member in a space exploration forum.

First Peek at M3 Data

The level of detail of those images is simply amazing.

The fact that there are a cabal of international agencies participating in this mission and there is such sparse hard data flowing from it is seriously disturbing.

NASA hasn't even provided data from their instrumentation yet.

The silence is becoming louder.

[edit on 20-12-2008 by cogburn]

Originally posted by mikesingh
Zorg! Where on Earth are you? Get cracking man. Shake a leg and get things a movin'! We can't expect anything to come out of these space agencies, can we?

Tin Can indeed... I'll have you know I have great connections at Timet

Got a thick sheet for cutting sword blanks too... only problem is I need a plasma cutter...

You have to prod Matyas though... he heads the propulsion department... he says they are close... but gotta keep prodding them

Can get parts here... you ought to see the F117 section
Bet I can pick up some good electronics there






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[edit on 20-12-2008 by zorgon]