India's Chandrayaan Blasts Off To The Moon!

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by sentinel2107

Isn't there a possibility of them being un-sewn once the space-faring nations actually start looking at the Moon as the next frontier to be opened up, but which can be achieved only through international collaboration?

Ummm space faring nations?

Well no worries... Space Command will handle them... the Space NAVY is stronger than you think

You mean, when those interests are at stake, to hell with potential international agreements on handling moon as a resource for humanity?

Seems India's former President Abdul Kalam was right when he said "I believe that the moon cannot be left to a few countries."

Originally posted by sentinel2107
You mean, when those interests are at stake, to hell with potential international agreements on handling moon as a resource for humanity?

Well let's look at the US track record of NOT doing what is in it's best interest.... errr nah no need to rehash that

Lets look at the bottom line... HE3

In their 1988 paper, Kulcinski, et al., estimate a total of 1,100,000 metric tonnes of He3 have been deposited by the solar wind in the lunar regolith. Since the regolith has been stirred up by collisions with meteorites, we'll probably find He3 down to depths of several meters.

That amount of He3 would produce approximately 20,000 terra-watt years of thermal energy, about 10 times the amount if we burned all the fossil fuels on Earth. without the pollution. Another way to state it, 25 tons would power the United States for 1 year, which is about the maximum size of the payload of a Space Shuttle

It has been estimated that helium 3 would have a cash value of $5.7 billion a ton in terms of its current energy equivalent to oil at $40 per barrel oil. Thats 142.5 BILLION per Shuttle load...

Here is an article by Guy Cramer... one of the 3 holders of the Mineral rights
www.direct.ca...

H H Schmitt Apollo Astronaut LAST man to 'walk on the moon' and geologist... lets have a brief look at what he is up to...


Look at this topo mining map created in 1967 !!! by USGS
www.lpi.usra.edu...

Look at the name of who created it.





Now here is an email from Guy Cramer (whose granddad worked with John Lear's father and TT Brown on anti gravity research in 1952 under contract to the DoD Project Winterhaven)

From: Guy Cramer
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2007 3:47 PM
To: John Lear

I've spoken with Dr. Larry Taylor, director of UT’s Planetary Geosciences Institute in Knoxville, Gerald Kulcinski, Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University of Wisconsin at Madison and Harrison Schmitt, Chairman Of Interlune-Intermars Initiative, Inc. and Apollo 17 Astronaut regarding Helium 3 data, although we never got as far as discussing an extraction process.

Sincerely,
Guy Cramer, President/CEO
HyperStealth Biotechnology Corp.

Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University of Wisconsin at Madison is one of the main facilities involved in HE3 fusion research...

Interlune-Intermars Initiative, Inc. is H H Schmitt's mining company.

Here is one of the cost/value projections from his company



The 'value' of HE3



Cost evaluation of launch vehicles...



Saturn V Hmmmmm....

US PATENT 5,092,545

Method of Delivering Lunar Generated Fluid
to Earth Orbit Using an External Tank

Publication number: US5092545
Publication date: 1992-03-03
Inventor: BUTTERFIELD ANSEL J (US); GOSLEE JOHN W (US)
Applicant: NASA (US)

ABSTRACT

A method and apparatus are provided for delivering lunar generated fluid to Earth orbit from lunar orbit. Transport takes place in an external tank of a shuttle which has been suitably outfitted in Earth orbit for reusable travel between Earth orbit and a lunar orbit. The outfitting of the external tank includes the adding of an engine, an electrical system, a communication system, a guidance system, an aerobraking device, and a plurality of interconnected fluid storage tanks to the hydrogen and oxygen tanks of the external tank. The external tank is then propelled to lunar orbit the first time using Earth based propellant. In lunar orbit, the storage tanks are filled with the lunar generated fluid with the remainder tank volumes filled with lunar generated liquid oxygen and hydrogen which serve as propellants for returning the tank to Earth orbit where the fluid is off-loaded. The remaining lunar generated oxygen and hydrogen is then sufficient to return the external tank to lunar orbit so that a subsequent cycle of fluid delivery is repeated. A space station in a higher Earth orbit is preferably used to outfit the external tank, and a lunar node in lunar orbit is used to store and transfer the fluid and liquid oxygen and hydrogen to the external tank. The lunar generated fluid is preferably 3He.

This liquid Cargo Transport is a version of the Aquila. An Aquila was launched from the Marshall Islands to the moon TWO MONTHS before Apollo 11 carried Buzz Aldrin to the Moon...

What is the Aquila? Read THIS carefully
www.thelivingmoon.com...

Aquila is built by Starcraft Boosters....

Who is Starcraft Boosters?



Starcraft Boosters Team... quite impressive.
www.starbooster.com...

Buzz Aldrin is also senior science consultant and partner for Gravwave Inc, a company working on anti gravity with the CHINESE...

Page 9 www.gravwave.com...

Here is Buzz Aldrin - China Moon
revver.com...

And finally... a private note from one of the other three people who hold those mineral rights...

Your comment on 'liquifying' minerals on the moon is 'right on time'. Our group, presently, is engaged in deep discussion as to modifying the minerals to be harvested, and liquifying (H3, for example) is/has been the subject of much heated discussion. Actually, I suggested (to our group) not so much 'liquifying' ...but 'changing the state' . If you look at some of my patents...you'll note that in these I teach 'change of state' (from liquid to a gas, for example) to accomplish some desired result: Entropy vs Enthalpy, for example. The discussions continue as of this writing, with all suggestions being considered by our group (and others) prior to making recommendations to those within and outside our group.

On the mining-thing. I can only state that in the broadest of senses mining operations have taken place on the lunar surface and are presently being conducted on Mars (and continue on the Moon). Although the use of terminology, 'mining' has been downplayed (by NASA) and there exists an 'internal memo' .

Use of terminology, e.g., 'mining', could be considered (by some countries) to constitute a violation of the International Space Treaty. Thus, NASA is real-careful about use of terminology that could be considered a breach of 'Policy and Protocol'. I can give you this stuff as it's 'public information'. You have to look between the spaces/lines for more info and draw your own conclusions.

Seems India's former President Abdul Kalam was right when he said "I believe that the moon cannot be left to a few countries."

So you really think that with all that going on that Space Command and the NAVY are going to let ANYONE else (save the Russians who are our partners) have a 'piece of the action'



That Marshall Island launch facility? US ARMY/Space and Missile Defense Command...

The same people who brought the NAZI scientists to America in Operation Paperclip

The same people who worked with Von Braun and General Trudeau on a moon base project to be completed in 1962



An interesting side note SpaceX just launched a private rocket from this location


continued...

SPACE COMMAND
General Kevin P. Chilton
Commander, Air Force Space Command

"The establishment of Space Command is a crucial milestone in
the evolution of military space operations. Space is a place--like
land, sea, and air--a theater of operations. And it was just a matter
of time until space was treated as such."
~ General James V. Hartinger, 1 September 1982

Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specif?ic space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004

Available by subscription

Maybe THESE guys are the "list of non terrestrial officers" and space fleet that Gary McKinnon stumbled upon...

Now then back to your regularly scheduled Indian attempt to break through the blockade

[edit on 23-11-2008 by zorgon]

Oofff! Zor, you are the man
What a post! I thought I would thank you before I start reading on all that.
Thanks!!

Originally posted by zorgon
...
Now then back to your regularly scheduled Indian attempt to break through the blockade

After going through all that stuff, it is fairly certain now that this century is really going to be interesting as regards the fight for the new frontier.

International agreements and protocols for peaceful uses of space resources! How boring!! Let the war drums roll!!

[edit on 24/11/2008 by sentinel2107]

Originally posted by zorgon
....
So you really think that with all that going on that Space Command and the NAVY are going to let ANYONE else (save the Russians who are our partners) have a 'piece of the action'
....

The Russians are collaborating in Chadrayaan - II with a landing module! What gives?

[edit on 23/11/2008 by sentinel2107]

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by contradunce

On the ejection of the MIP from the space craft, he said the probe hit the lunar surface within 25 minutes and 10 seconds after leaving the mother craft and approached a crater named Shackleton.

Lots of people are interested in the Shackleton crater. From an article published in SPACE.com in March 2007:
...
More here:
www.space.com...

Shackleton crater:

www.esa.int...

Here's a locational diagram for Shackleton and Malapert, looking "down" on the south pole:


Source: Schrunk, DG, Sharpe, BL, Cooper, BL & Tangavelu, M, 2007, The Moon - Resources, Future Development and Settlements, 2nd edn, Springer.

[edit on 23/11/2008 by sentinel2107]

Shackleton crater was also the target of the camera(s) of Kaguya, and they did not found any ice on the surface.

Apparently they are having some overheating problems, I hope everything gets back on track.

Chandrayaan-1 faces overheating problem!

reply to post by zorgon


Wow! man, you're a darn walking encyclopedia!! I wonder why you haven't been made an SME as yet? Or a Doc Archivist? Mind blowing stuff!

But there's a catch here. He3 needs fusion reactors that are only on the drawing board as of now. ITER, a fusion power technology demonstrator is being built by the European Union (represented by EURATOM), Japan, the People´s Republic of China, India, the Republic of Korea, the Russian Federation and the USA.

To be ready to go on steam by 2020, the ITER aims to demonstrate the scientific and technical feasibility of fusion power. A technology demonstrater only. Once the design is validated, the actual project will commence. The program is anticipated to last for 30 years — 10 for construction, and 20 of operation.

That's really long term stuff. In the meanwhile suppose we discover 'zero point' energy? What happens to the billions spent for HE3 retrieval? Of course, this ZPE is just speculation as of now, but who knows?

So would HE3 extraction be worth it?

Cheers!

Originally posted by sentinel2107
Strange! Is it specified in ATS's Book of Job? (Handbook they call it, right?)

In my opinion, one liners can be pretty meaningful and impact-ful at the same time. For e.g: "Hey xxxxxxxx ! You suck big time!'

Here. Get a load of this...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Cheers!

reply to post by zorgon


Zorgon: This island:

Is it located in the Pacific? I ask because I randomly spotted an island not too dissimilar to the one picture on google earth but buggered if I could find it again.

Do you have anymore information on it?



Sorry to go off topic Mike.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
Is it located in the Pacific? I ask because I randomly spotted an island not too dissimilar to the one picture on google earth but buggered if I could find it again.
Do you have anymore information on it?
Sorry to go off topic Mike.

You needn't get buggered trying to find it!!

Here it is. Kwajalein (Pacific) in all its glory! The same as shown in the insignia!


Courtesy: kwajaleinscubaclub

As shown in the BMD Test Site insignia....







Cheers!



Pics: Wikipedia






[edit on 24-11-2008 by mikesingh]

Originally posted by mikesingh
So would HE3 extraction be worth it?

PSSSTTT Chech out MIT's 'progress'

reply to post by Chadwickus

Ronald Reagan Ballistic Missile Defense Test Site (RTS)
US Army Space and Missile Defense Command
www.smdc.army.mil...

warning this link will not work in all locations outside the US

There is an interesting note on their site...

Wake Island, located 1,100 kilometers north of the Kwajalein Atoll, is a functional adjunct to RTS, providing a launch site for intermediate range NMD and TMD target missiles. Program requirements, mission planning and implementation, and logistics support are coordinated through the Reagan Test Site.

Funny thing is when you go there by google Earth its deserted...

Kwajalien Atoll - 8° 43′ 0″ N, 167° 44′ 0″ E
Wake Island - 9° 18′ 0″ N, 166° 38′ 0″ E
Johnston Atoll - 16° 45′ 0″ N, 169° 31′ 0″ W

reply to post by mikesingh


Ah awesome, cheers Mike.

Turns out it was another one, I just spent a bit of time to find it...and I have!
no doubt you know about this one as well but just in case you don't:



Coordinates: 16°43'29.49"N 169°32'21.17"W

And a bit of info:

Johnston Atoll Airport is located on the Johnston Atoll in the United States Minor Outlying Islands, in the Pacific Ocean several hundred kilometers southwest of Hawaii. While an active U.S. military facility during the 20th century, the airport was shut down in 2005 and the airstrip is not maintained; it is now used only in emergencies.

I wonder if it really is shut down?

Anywho...back to Chandrayaan



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Cheers Zorgon, I got the site working, pretty good spot to launch rockets without being bothered isn't?

[edit on 24-11-2008 by Chadwickus]

An article from The Hindu:

Manned mission will raise prowess: ISRO chief

Interesting excerpts:

“The Moon’s atmosphere is very volatile and on the very first day, there was a sudden temperature variation of 10 degrees. This could to some extent affect the sophisticated electronics components on the Moon Impact Probe,”

“Only 3 per cent of the budget allocation to ISRO is being used for such advanced research. Eighty-five per cent of our budget is being utilised for developing facilities required to enhance the standard of living of common people in India,”

Thanks sentinel for pinting this out!

Now this here is getting pretty interesting! According to the chief of India's Chandrayaan Moon probe:

“The Moon’s atmosphere is very volatile and on the very first day, there was a sudden temperature variation of 10 degrees. This could to some extent affect the sophisticated electronics components on the Moon Impact Probe,”

Two points to note:

1. The Moon's atmosphere is very volatile.
2. There was a sudden temperature variation of 10 degrees!!

Now what does this actually translate to? An atmosphere on the Moon, not as tenuous as previously thought? If there's an atmosphere, then there has to be sufficient gravity too!

Nice! So my thread The Big NASA-Military Cover-up On Gravity And Atmosphere On The Moon! is being validated!!

Cheers!

reply to post by ArMaP


lol.. all the excitement back here on Earth's getting to it
Good find though.. Not on any of the local mainstream media!

Originally posted by mikesingh


Two points to note:

1. The Moon's atmosphere is very volatile.
2. There was a sudden temperature variation of 10 degrees!!

Now what does this actually translate to?

Good point about the translation. We've been hearing the term atmosphere on various occasions from The Hindu. I think it's been used in the sense of environment.

If you take the term atmosphere literally, you must take the word volatile literally. So that means the atmosphere is explosive? Or that it evaporates easily? The former is scary, the latter tells us it shouldn't be there after millions of years.

Read it this way and it makes sense: The moon's environment is very variable, the temperature varies a lot. The temperature changes are rough on our equipment.

The "atmosphere" of the moon is tenuous in the extreme. The gravity of the moon is about 1/6th that of Earth.


[edit on 24-11-2008 by Phage]