The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

While people in Europe and around the world are busy looking at the numbers and wondering if the Greek economy can pull through (they can't), they're not considering the fact that Greece is already on the brink of a violent revolution.

Forget the numbers, forget the ideas of Greece actually cutting back enough to manage their IMF requirements. Think about the millions of Greeks who have already had enough of their technocrat government and will soon be marching on that parliament building to drag their unelected banksters our into the streets.

That's what is going to happen.

No austerity measures are going to work, because the people will simply not accept any more. Tax on food has already gone up by over 20%, employers are now free to fire whoever they like and shift the work onto others with the threat of losing their job too.

With Greeks already out in the street attacking that building almost on a daily basis, how long does anyone really think it'll be before they organize to oust the current unelected leadership and voluntarily leave the €?

Considering the fact that the elected leadership led Greeks to this, I don't think anything is going to change.

The whole political thing is a farce. The war has been lost long time ago.

maybe they don't have a choice but to keep bailing out??
if they were to default, which well, a 50% haircut in my world would be a default but not in theirs appearently, the all those credit default swaps ( a little over 54 billion euros) would come into play, and most of those are insured by the five big banks: JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC, and Goldman Sachs., who by the way it's the ISDA that gets to determine weather or not there is a default, and guess who owns the association?? why, those same five banks that will end up paying up if it's decided there is a default!!

so, well, I guess we should get used to these bailouts and non-defaults, since there is no way that these banks are gonna allow themselves to be put into a position of having to pay out on those CDS, and well, if they do find themselves in that position, we can probably expect the fed gov't to come to the rescue, because they well, you know are too big to fail!!!

interesting read, explains just what happened to MF Global..

globalresearch.ca...

All those bailouts are covered with lowering of labor costs all around the world. That is the plan and exit strategy. I don't think they weren't aware of this 50 years ago.

Hitler and Stalin did the same. They planned slave labor and used it from the beginning. They all do that today.

The experiment of Free Western Democratic World is over.

reply to post by DangerDeath
with the stocks hitting above 13,000 mark today I think all the worry's are over for now, I do not see them falling from this point on, by Sept 2012 14,000 would be the new mark. abcnews.go.com... from the link

The Dow Jones industrial average hit the intraday high of 13,000 for the first time since May 2008. The stock index is at a nearly four-year high, and a few points from closing at 13,000, which it has not done since May 2008.

With European finance ministers agreeing to a new bailout package for Greece, all eyes were watching whether the Dow would pass the psychological threshold of 13,000 after being closed Monday in honor of Presidents Day. The index briefly passed the mark shortly before 11:30 a.m. ET before returning to about 12,995.

so sit back and enjoy the ride up up up it will go

reply to post by bekod


I don't see why I should be happy with big numbers at DOW? They are fake, they only reflect inflation. They tell us that bankers are happy, so what? We know bankers and investors are happy when we struggle and work for them for minimal pay. They produce strife and so they rise, I'm not happy with that. This farce needs to end soon.

DOW compared to gold is very very very down.

Anyways, here are the debt numbers for February 16.

Debt for fiscal year starting October 1 2011 till February 16 2012 : 622.69 billion or 4.51 billion/day ($14.55/day/citizen) or ($1.64 trillion deficit)
Debt for calendar year 2012 till February 16 2012 : 190 billion or 4.04 billion/day ($13.04/day/citizen) ($1.476 trillion deficit)
Current debt as of February 16 2012 : 15.413 trillion
Current debt ceiling : 14.694 trillion (first phase) 15.194 trillion (second phase) 16.694 trillion (final phase)

At the current average rate of 4.275 billion in new debt/day (or about $13.79 in new debt per day for every citizen in America...and that is just federal) it will take about 299 days before reaching the final phase of the debt ceiling hike, so around January 28, 2013.

US GDP : 15.294 trillion Q4 2011
US debt : 15.413 trillion

Total debt to GDP ratio : 100.77%

Deficit spending is slowing!

The Dow, flashing colors and the recent show that "we can" is due to nothing but pre election favoritism and to prepare the masses to the increase in oil prices.

This morning the first thing coming out of the mouth of the corporate media is that the Dow is doing great and that the so call "big pocket" economist are claiming that Americans and the economy are in good shape enough to pay for higher prices of oil.

So if they preach enough that we are doing good and shows how good the Dow is doing good we will be more psychologically ready to trade food for gas.

After all rejoice the economic recovery is in full gear, at least psychologically.

paper or gold...?


1 oz is 28.34952 grams...a paper bill weigh ~1 gram

1 oz of $100 bills = $ 2,837 ++
1 oz of $50s = $ 1,417 ++
1 oz of $20s = $ 567 ++

= and todays price of gold is just 1 oz = $1760.

Originally posted by dawnstar
... most of those are insured by the five big banks: JPMorgan Chase, Citigroup, Bank of America, HSBC, and Goldman Sachs., who by the way it's the ISDA that gets to determine weather or not there is a default, and guess who owns the association?? why, those same five banks that will end up paying up if it's decided there is a default!!

there is no way that these banks are gonna allow themselves to be put into a position of having to pay out on those CDS, and well, if they do find themselves in that position, we can probably expect the fed gov't to come to [pay]

those CDS' are valued in paper dollars...maybe the 'default' provision will not come into play at this moment (with the haircuts, etc)
but those CDS' are still active, alive, and redeemable when all these bailouts are exhausted and the european nations or the PIGS part of europe finally default and return to their historic monies ...
or switch to a new worldwide reserve currency, as yet unprinted


either gold has a way to climb or paper money (incl CDS') has a way to fall for gold & paper to reach parity
thanks

I am glad you are all posting about the DOW. My boss went around to all the "guys" and spoke to them about their 401ks & IRA's. He advised them to adjust all their investments into American stocks. It made me wonder if he just realized that Europe & Japan were having issues or if he really believes that things are looking up. I do agree that the numbers are false, but it does make me wonder what highs we are going to see during this election year.

what blows my mind is the crude oil to gas price ratios right now. Crude was at $150 a barrel in 08 and prices here were 4.25 a gal of gas. Now crude is at $108 a barrel and gas is at 4.25 NOW!. Europe is in a confirmed recession yet oil over there is the highest its ever been..... Inflation is really kicking in right now.

With work we had a 50% incress for drywall this year so far! Insulation went up 12% in Jan and i got another letter today saying insulation is going up another 12%!!! Thats two price increase in two months! this kind of stuff distroys companys with locked in contracts. When did dirt start costing so much!!!! MSM is high if they think inflation is ~mild~

reply to post by camaro68ss

I too am seeing the 2008 trends, High gas prices and TPTB say stocks are doing GREAT.... ugggg... I think the market's are going to fall again and the DEPRESSION can no longer be suppressed. Its going to get rough this year.

The question, is europ in a depression, a sever and long recession, with abnormaly
high levels of unemployment and sovrign defaults, oh and a drying up of credit?
I got the definition from wikipeadia soplease don't yell too mutch but it sounds very close
to being a depression over there.

Originally posted by merkej23
reply to post by camaro68ss

 

I too am seeing the 2008 trends, High gas prices and TPTB say stocks are doing GREAT.... ugggg... I think the market's are going to fall again and the DEPRESSION can no longer be suppressed. Its going to get rough this year.

I wish I paid much more attention to what was going on back then. From what I have read over the past 12 months, what you say is very true. There just seemed to be a heightened optimism despite any covert warning signs and underlying risks and hazards. It seems current sentiment reigns again, only this time, central banks and sovereigns are in a far more precarious position to respond to another meltdown.

Great interview with Reggie Middleton breaking down the current crisis and the problems the world faces.
I've listened to this guy quite a few times and everything he says seems to make a lot of sense.

www.youtube.com...

Well the German parliament committed yet again treason by voting for another Greek bailout...

496-90-5...

Ze German tax collectors are going to Greece... and they probably won't make it all home safely. I pity the fool who takes that job.

Oooooooooooops.

S&P cuts Greece credit rating to selective default

There goes the dynamite.

Total collapse in retail sales... not good at all.

Worst since January 2009

New orders for manufactured durable goods in January decreased $8.6 billion or 4.0 percent to $206.1 billion, the U.S. Census Bureau announced today. This decrease, down following three consecutive monthly increases, followed a 3.2 percent December increase. Excluding transportation, new orders decreased 3.2 percent. Excluding defense, new orders decreased 4.5 percent.

If this is the beginning of a trend... we're officially back in recession! Shocking, I know!

As ECB Finds Defaulted Bonds To Be Ineligible Collateral, Bundesbank Is Stuck Holding The Defaulted Greek Bag

In other words: the Nationa Bank of Greece suddenly finds itself without its ECB lifeline, but with a Eurosystem Bank backstop. Which means that the Bundesbank is about to be dragged down kicking and screaming into funding Europe's insolvent experiment even more, a step we predicted would happen months ago, and a step we believe that Germany will not be too delighted to tolerate once it figures out how the ECB just stuck it with the bill...

What a surprise! NOT!

Even less surprising :
Goldman: Germany Is Now On The Hook By €1 Trillion (Or 40% Of GDP)

So how long before fake German indignation turns real: €1 trillion in sunk PIIGS costs, €2.5 trillion, or 100% of German GDP? €5 trillion?

So... how long before the German people understands this and overthrow their banksters puppet government who will put Germany further into debt till hell freezes over?

Greek Colonization 102: Europe Calls For Reconstruction Commissioner In Athens

JUNCKER CALLS FOR RECONSTRUCTION COMMISSIONER FOR ATHENS: WELT
JUNCKER COMMENTS IN INTERVIEW WITH GERMANY'S DIE WELT

Yay!

Ireland Mentions "R" Word, EUR Plunges

IRELAND TO HOLD VOTE ON EU FISCAL COMPACT, KENNY SAYS

Democracy ain't allowed in SovietEurope!

And more bullish :
No Housing Recovery - Case Shiller Shows 8th Consecutive Month Of House Price Declines

Ooops.

reply to post by Vitchilo


Great posts, V.

So they're going to consult the electorate in Ireland. This could get interesting. I wonder how the people will react when they realise TPTB are already rehearsing an excruciating armlock —

...what is the precise significance of this announcement?

• The vote will essentially determine whether Ireland has access to future bailout funds or not. For a country to access the ESM, the eurozone's permanent bailout fund, it must have ratified and fully adhered to the treaty, according to the terms attached to the deal. The Irish government has already given indications that it will tie its approach closely in with the prospect of further bailout funding, with Deputy PM Eamon Gilmore pointing out the link between emergency funds and the fiscal pact approval. These scare tactics are likely to grow throughout the referendum campaign, with the flip-side of rejecting the treaty being seen as tantamount to a vote for eurozone exit. In other words, the Irish will vote with a gun to their head...

Source


As Spock would say, "It is democracy, Jim, but not as we know it."


[ATSimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/ho4f4d247f.jpg[/ATSimg]

Originally posted by Vitchilo
Total collapse in retail sales... not good at all.

but obama said it was all good?