The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

Well.... CIT trading was halted today, and now....

Word is they are filing BK Sunday

Of course, the people in charge still don't realize what went wrong, the US Regulators Urge Banks Help On Commercial Realty

more loans at over 100% LTV Will they ever realize the folly of their ways???

So has anyone else noticed the lovely little correlation between the USD & the S&P/Dow???

USD tanks, equities rise, USD rises, equities tank? It's been a lovely little relationship the past few weeks, I've been cashing in nicely on it, How about the rest of you?

BTW, some dirtly little rumors running around about USB acting fishy and WFC is tagged to USB. WFC not tanking yet, seems to be lagging a bit, but bought some front month puts anyway.

The symbol for the Wells November 30 Call is FHUKD. Sounds about right to me.

[edit on 10/31/09 by redhatty]

I heard something today on a chat that GS and another company was going to buy up CIT stocks as soon as it hits .50 or .60 a share. now, to me this is RUMOR only, I'm just wandering if someone else heard this.....

CIT stocks at .64 in Aftermarket.

I also heard that CIT will be filing CH. 11 bankruptcy come monday.

man, how convenient for GS and that other company if this is true.

reply to post by tiso_us


see the post just above yours, it's hit the news, so looks like CIT's BK is true

reply to post by redhatty


Yep!!! must have been typing at the same time of your post....., Well i heard it was sunday OR monday. What's the odds that we were thinking CIT at the same time. YIKES!!!.

Isn't it peculiar that most of those banks that were closed are "national" banks. That may be a political decision for power grab...

I'll tell you this... all these banks dropping like flies is causing problems in the housing market too...

See I don't do stocks anymore my things is buying and renting out houses... no not to flip... I rent them out to the section 8 folks.. the government pays the rent and if one of their tenants messes up the place they pay for repairs too... so far it's worked out pretty well for me...

that is to say I used to... here's the problem... it can take anywhere from 21 to 90 days to close a property, with title insurance... anymore you cant trust the bank to still be there in three months time... So you come along and drop a big cash deposit down on one of there bank owned REO's If the bank goes belly up before closing your deposit isn't covered by FDIC... poof that money is gone... sure you can file a lien but that doesn't get your money back or the house!

I took a big chance buying this last place... Man was I ever nervous, praying the deal went through before the bank folded... I got lucky the house closed on the 12th this month and this weekend that bank was Citizens National out of Texas... you guessed it...closed just yesterday....

that's it for me... I'm out... I'm a little guy... retired little guy... I cant take to big a hit without it affecting the rest of my family... this whole bank thing is just to volatile.... but I'll keep watching the auctions the $200.000 homes sold off for $20 $30 grand but I'm not bidding anymore/

sometime around 4:00AM, the radio news i listen to at night
reported that 9 more banks were closed down...

see how the regulators and the folks which run things like the PPT
(plunge-protection-team) wait till the weekend to announce news
like bank closings...
i'm sure the Saturday AM announcement was determined way before
the -249 DOW point drop on Friday close.

[edit on 31-10-2009 by St Udio]

dow down 249.85 today 2+4+9=15+1=100 i dunno in the year 15 there are a lot of eclipses. lets try not to see the messiah this life time world!!!!

reply to post by DaddyBare

See I don't do stocks anymore my things is buying and renting out houses... no not to flip... I rent them out to the section 8 folks..
the government pays the rent and if one of their tenants messes up the place they pay for repairs too... so far it's worked out pretty well for me...

There's Plenty of room for creative abuse in the Section 8 arrangement with property Management/Maintenance providers....

such as the property management or owner deliberately finding cause to 'legally' evict the tenants in say ---- every 6 months

the property gets revamped at gov't expense.
The Mgmt makes a pretty penny, especially if the management can find a maintenance crew or remodeler that does the work for less than what the Section 8 pays to refurbish the property.

the abuse of Sec 8 and like types of gaming the system is whats draining the best-intentions of the [USA
-even still with all that money poured into these homes/apts...the areas remain in a depressed state or marginal property as a general rule...
just a revolving door for getting money



[edit on 31-10-2009 by St Udio]

reply to post by St Udio


Oh I know.. that whole system is ripe with abuse... I hear stories...
but me and my boys do all the repairs we provide receipts not just statements... I've one tenant who's beem in her place for the last 8 years, was a real pleasure watching her kids grow up... I took care of them they look out for me...

I got to personally know the people down at the housing authority... I did that for my own purposes... I wanted them to hand pick the best people for me, fewer problems than taking just anyone...Phillis now a director there will call me and ask if I can please take another family... sadly the answer for now is no... It is a business I started mostly for my kids to insure they have some income... but it does break my heart to see these homeless families with no place to go...

There is a new program I've signed up for... Section 8 and HUD will help my tenants buy their home... HUD will buy me out and my tenants pay them back... so far no takers but if they do then I'll slowly get out of the biz... besides it'll let me spent more time with my new granddaughter

Brace yourselves for the next week because unless the treasury and the Fed are working over time this weekend the markets volatility is going to bring some scary and ugly numbers.

I can only imagine the numbers been sugar coated as "better than expected" for Mondays manufacturing data, and the jobs report for Friday that we all know will be at an all time high of 10% if a miracle happens and hundreds of thousands will lose their benefits before Friday and an up day of "better than expected" takes center stage.

Also bringing the DOW over 10,000 was the signal to the nation that the economy was recuperating and interest rates should be raised so we may actually have the fed raising interest in an economy that is still going down the hill for main street America.

How long can the dollar manipulation has to keep going in order to keep the markets working, because that is what is happening right now, every time the dollar gets a boost things in the markets seems to go down the hill

Next week is going to be a tug of war in Wall street, and every littler bit of good news will be exagerated for damage control.

reply to post by marg6043


Funny you mention that, the Fed Buyback program is out of money. The running tally:

Date Purch. Running Total Submitted Sub./Purch. Buy Rate (Bill $/Day)
-------- ------ ------------- --------- ------------ -------------------
10/29/09 1.936 300.00 10.978 5.67 1.38
10/21/09 1.050 298.064 6.958 6.26 1.42
10/13/09 2.949 297.014 13.484 4.57 1.47
10/07/09 1.300 294.065 7.895 6.07 1.50
09/29/09 3.545 292.765 19.978 5.64 1.56
09/21/09 4.050 289.22 15.299 3.78 1.61
09/16/09 1.799 285.17 16.391 9.11 1.63
09/15/09 2.049 283.371 7.004 3.42 1.63
09/08/09 4.950 281.322 14.486 2.93 1.68
09/01/09 5.600 276.372 17.038 3.04 1.73
08/26/09 2.299 270.772 7.440 3.24 1.76
08/24/09 6.096 268.473 29.371 4.82 1.77
08/19/09 2.599 262.377 13.087 5.04 1.78
08/17/09 7.016 259.778 15.940 2.27 1.79
08/11/09 2.704 252.762 11.320 4.19 1.82
08/10/09 6.594 250.058 22.002 3.34 1.81
08/06/09 7.000 243.464 48.256 6.89 1.80
08/04/09 7.248 236.464 17.913 2.47 1.78
07/30/09 6.496 229.216 20.308 3.12 1.80
07/29/09 2.999 222.720 11.707 3.90 1.77
07/23/09 3.000 219.721 7.372 2.46 1.83
07/21/09 7.000 216.721 18.502 2.64 1.84
07/16/09 1.499 209.721 9.188 6.13 1.86
07/14/09 7.500 208.222 14.730 1.96 1.88
07/09/09 2.999 200.722 17.094 5.70 1.89
07/06/09 7.000 197.723 18.151 2.59 1.91
07/01/09 2.999 190.723 9.493 3.17 1.95
06/30/09 7.000 187.724 23.567 3.37 1.94
06/25/09 3.249 180.724 9.526 2.93 1.96
06/22/09 7.497 177.475 20.736 2.77 1.99
06/17/09 7.000 169.978 26.203 3.74 2.02
06/16/09 6.450 162.978 31.316 4.86 1.96
06/09/09 3.500 156.528 10.979 3.14 2.03
06/08/09 7.500 153.028 29.971 4.00 2.04
06/04/09 7.494 145.528 36.628 4.89 2.05
06/03/09 7.500 138.034 21.114 2.82 1.97
05/27/09 6.000 130.534 18.819 3.14 2.07
05/26/09 1.550 124.534 8.523 5.50 2.01
05/21/09 7.398 122.984 45.694 6.18 2.16
05/20/09 7.699 115.586 37.181 4.83 2.06
05/18/09 3.180 107.887 15.217 4.79 2.00
05/14/09 2.975 104.707 27.086 9.10 2.09
05/12/09 6.007 101.732 22.857 3.81 2.12
05/11/09 3.510 95.725 10.426 2.97 2.04
05/06/09 6.948 92.215 37.983 5.47 2.19
05/04/09 8.500 85.267 29.058 3.42 2.07
04/30/09 3.025 76.767 11.741 3.88 2.13
04/27/09 7.025 73.742 23.388 3.33 2.23
04/23/09 7.000 66.717 15.990 2.28 2.30
04/21/09 7.000 59.717 26.807 3.83 2.21
04/16/09 1.503 52.717 15.559 10.35 2.40
04/14/09 7.300 51.214 26.401 3.62
04/13/09 7.370 43.914 26.639 3.61
04/08/09 2.970 36.544 31.296 10.54
04/06/09 2.530 33.574 11.644 4.60
04/02/09 7.496 31.044 26.252 3.50
04/01/09 6.008 23.548 16.948 2.82
03/30/09 2.499 17.540 8.132 3.25
03/27/09 7.541 15.041 23.361 3.10
03/25/09 7.500 7.500 21.937 2.92

So they have no more AUTHORIZED $$ to play with anymore to control the bond market, the only moves left are kill equities to support the dollar or kill the dollar to support the equities.

Be very interesting to watch what happens with the bond yield curve over the next month

reply to post by redhatty


I think that for the first time since the recession the Fed is running out of options, but hey I wonder if they (the fed) actually believe that we were going to be out of the economic mess we are right now by this time.

Very interesting things are going to happen before the year is over, but people are so busy with the H1N1 that no many actually will see was going to be cooking behind close doors.

Originally posted by DaddyBare


Oh I know.. that whole system is ripe with abuse... I hear stories...
but me and my boys do all the repairs we provide receipts not just statements... I've one tenant who's beem in her place for the last 8 years, was a real pleasure watching her kids grow up...

~~~)(~~~

There is a new program I've signed up for... Section 8 and HUD will help my tenants buy their home... HUD will buy me out and my tenants pay them back..

Thank goodness there's a few honorable people in the HUD & Section 8 programs

~~~)(~~~

on the second point... HUD acting as the facilatator(sp?) for home ownership?
I'm sure that the Freddie/Fannie/FHA guarantees will be the finalizer...but HUD will technically be on the hook for 'recommending' the buyers & doing the preliminary 'screening' to secure the home loan....
Gosh ?!?!

that would be almost as good as a long enduring Letter of acceptance into Sec. 8 & one could go anywhere in the country & get that $100. month for a 2 bed apt that normally goes for $600-$800 mo.

So they have no more AUTHORIZED $$ to play with anymore to control the bond market, the only moves left are kill equities to support the dollar or kill the dollar to support the equities.

Is it really them having no more money or them just slowly stopping their ``quantitative easing``? Because they said they would stop doing it...

And in december, the Copenhagen treaty will create a world tax and a world government... YAY! Then they'll pass Cap and Trade... im sure this will ``help`` the economy... for wall street of course, not main street.

reply to post by Vitchilo


They were allocated 300 Billion for QE, they have used it all up.

I posted the entire list of the buybacks for QE a few posts above

reply to post by redhatty


Yeah but why wouldn't they just put more money into it secretly? After all they do whatever they want these days.

Also, is it me or there may be a good chance that they put some kind of debt ceiling raise in the 2000 pages health care bill? After all, how many people will read it all?

And last time I heard, the US was going to reach the debt limit ceiling around mid october... where are we now?

reply to post by Vitchilo


debt ceiling info money.cnn.com...

As to more money into QE, well, I guess they could, but all Fed purchases & auctions are publicly recorded, so if they did, not only would there be an uproar from the aware folks at home in the US but also from many foreign CBs

You wanna see the rest of the world dump the dollar, that would really do it, because the "full faith and credit" backing would be completely lost should the Fed try to surreptitiously continue QE, rather than be up front and open about it.

Thanks... so end of november is screw the american people... or screw the american people... NICE.

And december at copenhagen, it's the same thing.. nice. I'm gonna buy more lube and ask for some more for christmas.

Also... the raping continues.

Don't want ``free health-care``? You go to jail

This is totally sick...no pun intended.

[edit on 1-11-2009 by Vitchilo]

Well here's some more fresh doom for ya...wonder what happened to all the ~rescues~ Carl Icion & GS were planning?

CIT to file for bankruptcy protection after rescues fail
www.marketwatch.com... for-bankruptcy-after-rescues-fail-2009-11-01?siteid=nbsh

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- CIT Group Inc.'s board of directors said Sunday that they had approve the filing of a prepackaged bankruptcy reorganization plan.

The formal filing in U.S. Bankruptcy Court was expected to follow within hours,.

CIT /quotes/comstock/13*!cit/quotes/nls/cit (CIT 0.72, -0.23, -24.21%) , a major lender to small and midsize businesses, has struggled to avoid collapse since the recession triggered billions of dollars in loan losses and the financial crisis cut the company off from its main source of financing.

With roughly $60 billion in assets, CIT's filing is probably the fourth-largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, ranking between General Motors /quotes/comstock/11i!mtlqq (MTLQQ 0.59, -0.02, -3.28%) and Enron. The bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers /quotes/comstock/11i!lehmq (LEHMQ 0.12, -0.01, -6.92%) , which collapsed last year, was the U.S.'s largest ever.

CIT asked the U.S. government for a bailout earlier this year, but despite the company's large business-lending operations, it wasn't deemed too big to fail. See story on government rejecting CIT.

That contrasts with other financial-services companies like American International Group /quotes/comstock/13*!aig/quotes/nls/aig (AIG 33.62, -2.63, -7.26%) , Citigroup /quotes/comstock/13*!c/quotes/nls/c (C 4.09, -0.22, -5.10%) and Bank of America /quotes/comstock/13*!bac/quotes/nls/bac (BAC 14.58, -1.15, -7.31%) , which have received more than $100 billion of government support since last year.

In October, CIT unveiled two different reorganization plans. One involved exchanging some debt, while the other was a voluntary pre-packaged bankruptcy restructuring. On Friday, activist investor Carl Icahn, a big CIT debt holder, said he was voting for the pre-packaged reorganization plan. That made such a filing more likely. See story on CIT's agreement with Icahn.

CIT was hit hard by the global financial crisis in two main ways. As the economy ground to a halt and unemployment surged, more of the company's loans went bad and it reported billions of dollars in losses over multiple quarters.

More importantly, CIT was one of the largest nonbank lenders in the world, a big part of the so-called shadow banking system that collapsed when the financial crisis erupted last year.

Roughly three-quarters of CIT's funding came from the unsecured debt market, but the company was shut out of this market as the crisis deepened. Bank deposits, considered a more stable source of money, made up 0% to 5% of CIT's funding.

CIT became a bank-holding company and got $2.3 billion from the government's Troubled Asset Relief Program in December. But that didn't solve its long-term problem: how to borrow money at competitive rates so it could continue lending.

CIT applied for a debt guarantee program run by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. but was rejected. Efforts to shift more of its assets to its banking unit, CIT Bank, have also hit hurdles.

CIT's bankruptcy will likely mean that the Treasury Department loses the $2.3 billion it invested in the company -- the biggest loss from TARP so far.

[edit on 11/1/2009 by Hx3_1963]