The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

here's something odd, especially since they all say the economy is in recovery... I went to look for the current "Personal Income" tables... Commerce Department ....guess what I found instead????

State personal income statistics delayed

Guess someone forgot to fudge the numbers before release and now some bean counter has to go back and make it look better?

reply to post by DaddyBare


Well with the incredible recuperation of the "Markets" just out of the blue" now the unemployment numbers and jobless rates needs to be sugar coated so the slaves, I mean (the tax payer) doesn't start using their brain to figure out how the rich gets richer while the working class gets reap off.

Oh, yeah those numbers are "temporarily unavailable".

Got to get the consumer ready for the holidays too.

I got so frustrated with CNBC this morning kissing butt to corporate and bankers CEOs defending their bonuses and all they are "doing" for the nation.

Until somebody said that how come the wealth and good fortune was not reaching main street yet, and seems the rich was getting richer I did not see him again after the commercial.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by marg6043]

Big Comeback Expected for Bonuses

At the expenses of the rest of the decaying America, yes my friends how can we forget the comeback of the big bonuses, how can Wall street explain for them if the markets are not good enough to fool everybody.

Manipulation at its finest (my personal opinion)

While America falls in decay and unemployment (soon to change to match the bonuses) Wall street is booming.

Blame the government said today Wagner former CEO, while been interview today on CNBC, we are trying to help the economy.

Incredible.

So the big boys in Goldman Sach are telling that the oil is to reach 80 dollars the barrel.

I guess with the markets been pushed to over the 10,000 mark (now some experts say that it will be temporarily) the oil futures are pushing the prices also higher.

So let me get this straight, JP Morgan pushed the gold to the biggest high ever, while Goldman sach is helping push futures of oil to over 80 dollars, still if I remember very clear no so long time ago during the sumer the oil producers wanted 100 dollars before the year was over.

Hum, another bubble in the making? I got the feeling that the next bubble is going to burst no years from now but only months.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


You know who did it in the first place, back in summer of 08, when oil reached 150$ a barel? Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan. They pushed it all up artificially.

This should be totally illegal... more than 50% of the price was speculation... disgusting.

BTW im reading the new GEAB report...and yep, the US is screwed. 2010 will probably be the final year for the US... just in time for the north american union plans that were set back in 05...they projected the union would be formed in 2010... coincidence? Sure...

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by Vitchilo


Sorry I mean that JP Morgan is pushing the prices of gold, not oil, that is Goldman Sach.

reply to post by marg6043


Everyone knows if we see Dow 10,000 we see high dollar oil.

I think we see Dow 11,000 after this earnings season and we see the equivalent of $85.00 oil. There is no way oil doesnt trail the market, everyone needs to keep their pockets lined you know.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I am still wondering how the prices for fuel in the winter is going to stay low, I think that we are to be waken up with a big December surprise.

Specially for those in the colder states when it comes to heating oil, my electricity just went up in the last two months even when I asked during the summer if they were going to increase the prices a straight response was not given.



[edit on 15-10-2009 by marg6043]

reply to post by marg6043


There is a lot of money inflow into NG later this year which will hike prices up, but wont be that high of course like last year, thats what i hear at least. It would be hard to tell that though as of late, but I am still hearing bullish thnigs from my dad talking to his clients. Still haven't heard from OIL Barron though yet.... I really dont pay an electric bill right now so..

I really think there is no reason for this market to quit right now and I continue to be outright bullish - why fight this trend? It doesn't make any sense, really. I mean if I had the dough I would buy 5 contracts on SP E-MINI outright and put some money in for margin and just sit on these for 3-5 years and continue to roll them over into the next contract. At one point you will have a substantial amt. of money. There is no denying it, the charts are just too historic for me.. it is indicating we will be strong in the near future economically as well and I am really starting to believe it now.

Think of it this way regarding the 5 contracts.

Overnight margin = 5600

5 contracts at $250.00 per point.

Even if SP500 drops 100 points ( i am really doubting that, but anything could happen of course) thats 250.00 x 100 = $25,000 (min you must have to play)

Sp500 target is 500 points in 1-5 years = 125,000

Thats a pretty calculated risk IMO that I would roll the dice with if I had that cash flow available. This is just what I would do of course and would not recommend that for anyone else.

So if SP 500 drops 200 points you are down 50,000 to your 125,000 target, and would add on 25,000 to make it a 150,000 target if that makes sense. Of course this would have worked much easier 200 points ago in the SP.



[edit on 15-10-2009 by GreenBicMan]

_______


A more conservative outlook would have you dollar cost average in your 5 contracts over the next 12 months, but IMO that would cut away on this run I still think we have a ways to go on before the next test of a EMA along the way under the 20

[edit on 15-10-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan

There is no denying it, the charts are just too historic for me.. it is indicating we will be strong in the near future economically...

I DENY IT.

When you talk about a strong economy you're talking about jobs, profitable business, flowing credit, boyant markets (at home & abroad), investment in R&D (+ advertising, as an indicator, at the very least), startup businesses appearing, expansion in capital assets, tax revenues growing, etc., etc.

I thought I heard something about abandoned cities (so many jobs lost mortgages can't be paid city-wide), empty malls (and the commercial real estate crash is only just beginning), whole states virtually bankrupt and a government struggling to keep the entire banking system from wipeout.

What planet are you on? (My friend.)

Good luck with the investments on the back of a recovery in the near future.

And I'll see you in the soup kitchen...

reply to post by GreenBicMan


High oil is a certainty.. simply through the falling dollar.

I do believe however, and its just a hunch, that the government is leaning heavily on the banks not to over speculate oil. The reason being is every dollar flowing into our tanks is a dollar not to retailers. I believe high oil was the death blow to the us consumer back in 07 and 08.. to hike oil now would slaughter what economic recovery we hhave seen thus far.

However the markets are reading, through ignorance, that lower oil = falling demand and thus falling economic activity.. doesn't make much sense honestly, the oil speculators probably share that as an inside joke lol.

Personally I'm interested in seeing 3q earnings.. if they are to bad we won't see 11k, if they are better then expected, traders may hike the markets preparing for a better than expected christmas. The only thing I predict is Christmas will be horrible.. what do you think?

reply to post by Rockpuck


3Q reports are only just starting to trickle out but I've seen nothing to justify a 10K market 11K if it happens would be groundless...

just to share a few headlines.

Charles Schwab 3Q profit falls 34 percent

Cypress Semi swings to 3Q loss, weighed by options

Safeway 3Q profit drops 35 percent on slow sales

Citi results weighed down by failed loans

Harley-Davidson exits sport bikes; 3Q profit drops

IBM Boosts Earnings Estimate, but Revenue Drops

Sony Ericsson on Friday said its losses widened to euro164 million ($245 million) in the third quarter, mainly due to plunging sales

the only companies showing big gains are those riding the market...
Goldman Sachs Group Inc.'s third-quarter earnings more than tripled from the depths of the financial crisis as income from the company's trading operations offset a drop in its investment banking business.

Consumers are holding back no one rushing out to buy much of anything... when they do it deeply discounted and smaller purchases... I just don't see 11K hell I don't see how we got to 10K if the market was based solely on earnings then we should have maybe a 6.5K to 7K DJI at best...

Looks like I'm not the only one who thinks the markets are overblown...
Ahead of the market's open, Dow Jones industrial average futures fell 45, or 0.5 percent, to 9,919. Standard & Poor's 500 index futures fell 5.60, or 0.5 percent, to 1,084.20, while Nasdaq 100 index futures fell 4.75, or 0.3 percent, to 1,743.75.

Earnings reports from banks have been of particular focus for the market this week. Investors want to see signs that credit losses are stabilizing, which would indicate that consumers and businesses are having an easier time paying off their debts. It doesn't look like that's happening... if anything it's getting worse!!!

BOA had to set aside more than $11 billion to offset bad loans.GE too took a big hit from their finance division driving profits way down. The unit saw its profit fall 87 percent during the quarter.

So much for signs of a recovery...

The markets were pushed into the 10,000 as a test and in a way to give the public deceptions.

Too many things going on with Wall street and their outrageous bonuses. Remember the regular joes are right now in the unemployment lines.

The markets boom is going to falter in the next few weeks but they will raise steadily or how you thing Wall street rats are going to account with all the billions in give away.

Yes the holidays will be very bad perhaps worst than last year, due to the unemployment but that is expected.

Oil prices are to be pushed and gold will keep its steady raise until it hits a death end.

Remember without wealth building in our nation is no such thing as an economy recovery Wall street is an elite on its own so is not surprises they are doing incredible good with all the economic eroding.

Oh, wow those earnings are terrible.. I agree, the current market is way over priced of course. I really do fear the 4q.. things could cascade out of control if earnings are that bad.. the retailers will go belly up by jan, 15% unemployment easily. It won't be fun..

ABOUT GOLD
news.goldseek.com...

Blight on Humanity Addendum --
Posted Thursday, 15 October 2009
By: Rob Kirby

Earlier this week, I wrote about possible “incongruities” in the gold bar registry of GLD. Specifically, here is what has happened to the GLD bar list which is published each Friday at approximately 4:30 pm EST. An alert reader I communicate with [who shall remain anonymous] has been documenting the length of the published GLD bar list: -
on Friday, Sept. 25 – the list was 1,381 pages long -
on Friday, Oct. 2 – the list was 208 pages long -
on Friday, Oct. 9 – the list was 195 pages long -
then, on Wednesday, Oct. 14 – after questions were being raised about the strange machinations with the bar list in chat rooms on the internet – the list was back up to 855 pages long

Something TRULY stinks here. No explanation has been offered for the DRAMATIC swings in this list. Where gold is concerned nothing happens by accident.

reply to post by Rockpuck


I think christmas is better than expected -

this related to my WMT play and the retail sector as a whole to be strongest this coming season - it just what seems reasonable imo

[edit on 16-10-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


I actually think your right. To elaborate:

Earnings, revenue, sales etc will have estimates bellow what is rational, so we will show negative sales growth but still be "better than expected" .. how it will play out in the markets I'm not entirely sure.. sometimes the markets thrive on bad news. Imo though (this is what id do anyways) .. id dump all positions before november, let the market go through correction through 1q 2010 then buy up cheap. But regardless individual retailers imo, won't be able to handle the strain of another red year. Due to several million more unemployed this season compared to the fear of 08, I cannot fathom how rationally the consumer will increase spending.

Time will tell which hypothesis will show true

reply to post by Rockpuck


Thats a good idea, but I am thinking this personally

I am looking as I said from purely a sector POV.

Think about what has not been hot, and then go into that - I think you are right when you say correction, but I am thinking correction in certain sectors only and not the whole market

I think money needs to go into Retail soon, I think this makes a lot of sense if you think about it, why keep buying financials when WMT is sub 55? Along with TGT Lowes Think about it from a risk/reward scenario.

I do like the thinking though that analysts are going to UNDERPROMISE and OVERDELIVER, that would help the govt out and at the same time keep boosting consumer confidence numbers - although most likely just undervalued numbers

If I was a money manager that would be my call at least. I need about 100,000,000 under my belt for my stance to have any credibility though