The "up-to-the-minute Market Data" thread

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


I think you are reading too much into that.

JMO though brother..

reply to post by DangerDeath


Look to DNDN for the dictionary term of manipulation.

That depends I suppose what you define manip.

I would go back to the early 1900's to really see that IMO, where there was outright public knowledge and was accepted in that time period.

Which also I believe at least, lead to the crash back then.

EDIT:

And please, dont say its the same manip. as today. It is not even close, if you are not knowledgeable about it, you should seriously read up on it, its actually pretty interesting and entertaining (to me at least ahhaah)



[edit on 19-6-2009 by GreenBicMan]

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Look at AIG, and other ENRONS. Goldman Sucks. Madoff. Sir Whatshisname. Oh yeah, it's all forgotten...

They steal money from all and then "buy stock" in the market.

That is the only reality and it's not so unpredictable, only not "in the market".

Ask your pa.

[edit on 19-6-2009 by DangerDeath]

reply to post by DangerDeath


Those are terrible things some of those men and woman did.

I think we can all agree on that.

I guess I am not sure as to what your point is though? That there is some sort of manipulation in this market at times? I agree. Do I think it is rampant? No, not at all. People do "get away with murder" though.. and I am sure these are the few that just got caught.

Just an observation, your continued cynicism and negativity is getting no one anywhere either at the same time. Too much bleakness and negativity isn't a way to live.

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Ahh, not so much.

Not when news like this is coming out, Venezuela loses billions despite Chavez's controls

We are putting close to hundred billion into GM, which is now 60% owned by the Government, now GM is going to lose millions of dollars a day because of this. Which means it is dragging down on the dollar because that is more money the government is going to have to make up. After all if your plant isn't open you can't make money.

Then there is also the money allocated to the IMF from the War Bill that just passed. The possibility of trillions of dollars in more spending, and only few hundred billion of money raised out of the 2 trillion needed too pay the interest coming due at the end of the Fiscal year, aka this Fall.

In case you haven't figured it out yet, there are not many reasons to hold US Dollars, but there are plenty of reasons to stay away from them.

I'm not looking at what the markets are doing, I'm looking at things that directly effect the dollars value. The reason why is because the markets aren't going to mean anything when the Fed monetizes the debt to pay the interest coming due.

Want to know what will happen when 2 trillion dollars get dumped into circulation? Here is a hint the amount of dollars in circulation in 2007 was 829 billion.

Yes, it is only 1's and 0's in a computer, but the fact is that money is in circulation. It isn't sitting in a Bank computer which is means its not in circulation.

If your looking at the markets for economic indicators your are looking at the wrong things.

The gov isn't going to default on the debt it owes, its just going to monetize the debt, both have the same effect of devaluing the currency. The Crude Gasoline, and Gold moves vs. the dollar, is an indicator that the dollar is losing its value.

Or to put it bluntly People are losing faith in America, since Fiat money is faith based.

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


There are many reasons for you to hear there are no reasons to hold the dollar. I believe this is a global disinformation campaign.. I have seen a lot of BS in the media lately that just doesn't seem right.

I have gone into detail in past posts.

But heres how I do it brother.

I look at the charts.. the charts don't lie and I am usually pretty good at predicting the next moves over a period of time..

Everything I see says we are good for now my friend.. so no worries..

I NEVER EVER EVER listen to anyone's opinion about anything related to a market, or let the MSM tell me where we are headed in the econ., its much more profitable to form your own opinions (you will find out you are right more than wrong)

Also, I guess I am still one of the few that thinks the markets are forward looking.. I am basing it all on this (as i am sure you figured out obviously already though)

reply to post by Hastobemoretolife


So tell me anyways, btw, what was the dollar index sitting at when crude was at 140 dollars a barrel.. and what was gold???

reply to post by GreenBicMan


Here ya go. Here is some interesting reading for you take back and soak in. I don't trade in the markets. Yes there is money to be made in the stock market, but it is not an indicator of the economy when the Treasury has a 700 billion dollar slush fund and a bank to buy what ever it is they would like too.

www.sliderontheblack.com...

www.goldstocksblog.com...

I'm not listening to the MSM, everybody on TV is saying we are going to have a recovery, apparently you do too. That isn't the case. You need to be watching the Bond Market.

We are in a process called Debt Deflation and it has been put off for decades. The last time we were in a period of Debt Deflation was the Great Depression. It isn't so much of when the economy is going to crash again it is only a matter of when.

America is a War economy, ever notice how since WWII we have had the Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, we had intervention in Somalia, Bosnia, now we are in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I don't think you are getting the big picture. You are looking at the few trees in the front of the forest and you aren't noticing all the other trees behind it.

It's real simple, we can't not support our current spending, even if everyone was to give 100% income to the gov we cannot sustain the levels of spending we have.

The DIJA, NASDAQ, S&P, etc are nothing but false indicators. What was once could be a calculated investment, is now literally a big giant casino, where the house has 1000:1 odds of winning.

But hey, that is the truth, Ben Bernake and Paulson saw this coming years ago and went into inflation mode while claiming that they didn't know this was coming to CYA.

Continue to believe what you want to believe, but don't try to convince me that the economy is turning around and everything is hunky dorry just a long recession. All the info is there you are just refusing to see it.

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Those are terrible things some of those men and woman did.

I think we can all agree on that.

I guess I am not sure as to what your point is though? That there is some sort of manipulation in this market at times? I agree. Do I think it is rampant? No, not at all. People do "get away with murder" though.. and I am sure these are the few that just got caught.

Just an observation, your continued cynicism and negativity is getting no one anywhere either at the same time. Too much bleakness and negativity isn't a way to live.

What I am trying to tell you is: pay attention to the "environment". There are no such things as "isolated" systems. Market is just like a display for something much bigger, which cannot be seen all in it.

So you think I'm cynical? I am, but not "against" your person. I'm cynical about how things are being perceived in a simplistic way, exactly as we have all been taught to do through the process of "education".

How about this: "Dark energy is about to be unleashed upon this world, and there may not be Wall Street any more in it".

Now close your eyes, please.

I'll give you an example.
There was a film a few years ago: "Oil will flow".
No? "Blood will flow". Yeah, I think that was the title. Grim.

Now, there are tankers with oil, stashed everywhere around the place. Is that just the means to control the prices in the Market? Or, maybe, just to control the oil? Who gives a damn about how much it costs if you don't have any... to fight a war.

Or...

Look at the transfer of wealth from West to East.
What if the "debt bubbles" in America are a consequence of something else, not just fraudulent bankers?

Industrial base transferred to Asia, normally, now Asia wants to get rid of the dollar. They already got what they wanted, production, consumption... They don't need Western banks and Western currency any more.

American banks are full with money, never had more money in history. But, who needs that money? It's inefficient. The investing base is gone. Capital, which is initiative, is gone. American population is being laid off, is that how you say? Nothing to do here any more.

So the "drive" that made America the biggest power in the world, is now running idle.

That is a fact, GBM. I don't know how it looks to you, "negative" maybe, but I'm not making it up.

Because all the shine is gone from the life of many Americans, I dare say that Wall Street Market is now a simulation of something which has lost pretty much of its substance. It is not important any more. Something else is now important. And that will be something a lot more personal than the famous "professional - nothing personal" agenda.

reply to post by DangerDeath

And that will be something a lot more personal than the famous "professional - nothing personal" agenda.

You can say that again, what it will turn into if everything goes according to plan, and you know what they say about best laid plans, the "nothing personal" agenda will be everything personal because they will pretty much own us, will be nothing but a number to do their bidding.

As you said I don't think some people are seeing the bigger picture.

Originally posted by Hastobemoretolife
reply to post by GreenBicMan

 

Here ya go. Here is some interesting reading for you take back and soak in. I don't trade in the markets. Yes there is money to be made in the stock market, but it is not an indicator of the economy when the Treasury has a 700 billion dollar slush fund and a bank to buy what ever it is they would like too.

Would you recommend letting all banks fail and causing financial and global collapse? Not even economic, but total anarchy? I am not.

www.sliderontheblack.com...

www.goldstocksblog.com...

I'm not listening to the MSM, everybody on TV is saying we are going to have a recovery, apparently you do too. That isn't the case. You need to be watching the Bond Market.

Well, out of 28 (i think) recessions that have occurred in the USA we have came out of all 28 - so yes I guess I am "playing the odds"

BTW, goldstockblog? His renko charts btw are VERY misleading, I have done many many many charts with renko, and by far they are one of the most unreliable..

We are in a process called Debt Deflation and it has been put off for decades. The last time we were in a period of Debt Deflation was the Great Depression. It isn't so much of when the economy is going to crash again it is only a matter of when.

Yes, and the markets will reach new highs again. And retype your last sentence again, I am not understanding that.

America is a War economy, ever notice how since WWII we have had the Korean War, Vietnam War, Gulf War, we had intervention in Somalia, Bosnia, now we are in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I dont disagree with that.

I don't think you are getting the big picture. You are looking at the few trees in the front of the forest and you aren't noticing all the other trees behind it.

Trust me, I get the picture, I see the trees and the mountains beyond it.

It's real simple, we can't not support our current spending, even if everyone was to give 100% income to the gov we cannot sustain the levels of spending we have.

We cannot support the IRAQ war yes.. that is ending. We do though have the biggest corporations in the world still in the USA and we wield the heaviest hand.

Our assets if I am not mistaken still exponentially dominate any other country.

The DIJA, NASDAQ, S&P, etc are nothing but false indicators. What was once could be a calculated investment, is now literally a big giant casino, where the house has 1000:1 odds of winning.

The market is always a calculated investment. Now it is just computers running the show thinking for us. It was always a big casino.. tell me besides ATT and BELL LABS, IBM.. how many companies could you hold since the early 1900's? False indicators? Please, take a look at historical charts.

But hey, that is the truth, Ben Bernake and Paulson saw this coming years ago and went into inflation mode while claiming that they didn't know this was coming to CYA.

I cant say what they did or did not know. I know BB is actually doing a very good job right now handling the situation. I do think there was some underhanded action going on, but I would like to think it was for the benefit for the greater good down the line, hopefully this comes to fruition.

Continue to believe what you want to believe, but don't try to convince me that the economy is turning around and everything is hunky dorry just a long recession. All the info is there you are just refusing to see it.

I see it. I spend 10 hours a day seeing it if not more. I am not trying to convince you I guess, just stating an opinion based on historical facts. About 90% of everything I have said has historical significance and can be charted as such. I do not make wrong calls very often.

But please, I wholly endorse your right to your own opinion. In fact, I like hearing them.

reply to post by DangerDeath


There is one thing Asia does need though. They need the west sucking on the teet of their production. They need us more than we need them IMO. I think all this $ talk is BS, for reasons I have already stated.

And oil to me is just a trade. In fact a trade you can make quite a bit of $ on with the correct trading algorithm. I don't think its based on supply or demand, it has turned into a total trade. (price wise)

The graphs are going up.

The firms that are indicative for those graphs have laid off so many employees.

The firms are sinking.

The graphs are going up, sinking together with firms

Ships

Sinking... not going up...

And oil to me is just a trade. In fact a trade you can make quite a bit of $ on with the correct trading algorithm. I don't think its based on supply or demand, it has turned into a total trade. (price wise)

Total trade, yeah, I like that.
Like total war.

Every eye has a blind spot - the yellow smudge.
Now, no one can use that yellow smudge to focus onto something, except to "not see something"...

Like the casualties of the Total Trade (War).

When it comes to total trade of oil, chances are this oil will be likely converted into napalm.

reply to post by DangerDeath


Reinhardt? Is that you? lol

What does that mean though seriously

reply to post by DangerDeath


Danger,

Please dumb it down for me, I have a hard time reading between the lines in your posts

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Reinhardt? Is that you? lol

What does that mean though seriously

Remember what Spock said when he was about to expire:

- Remember!

Originally posted by GreenBicMan
reply to post by DangerDeath

 

Danger,

Please dumb it down for me, I have a hard time reading between the lines in your posts

So, read the lines, please

reply to post by DangerDeath


sorry lol, i am a star wars guy.. never got into ST for some reason.. I guess that might have been a tad before my time and SW was just the movies so...

reply to post by DangerDeath


"Beam Me Up, Scotty"?

My mom was/is a Treckie. lol