It's Official: Zeitgeist, Peter Joeseph, is out in left field.....

reply to post by zman




Im getting an Island of Dr. Moreau feel to this, where eating a wild animal is punishable under the law and violent tendencies are dealt with severely.


"What is law?..........Law is pain"


On the other hand, perhaps a different cinematic effect would be implemented for those who act out or behave poorly? Cant have baddies running around doing whatever they want and creating disorder in our new fantastic super neato utopian society can we?



Re-education is our friend

One of the things that is rarely mention in these follow up debates, and I believe to be of utmost importance is the issue of patents.

Are patents good for humanity?

When a superior technology is kept off the market because the patent holders have a financial interest in a competing technology, is this good for us? Would inventors still invent without this financial advantage?

I wish that point would've brought up in the AJ-Zeitgeist debate.

I'm listening to AJ's reply now (one more to go) I'm not sure why Alex believes that they are pushing a new religion. They attempt to explain where Jesus comes from, not saying that we should worship this Jesus. An obvious straw man argument. (it does appear that Venus project has a new age edge to it) The maker of Zeitgeist and the Venus Project could differ on this point.

I'd really like to see documentation for his claim that Alice Bailey's "religion" is the only one that the United Nation has allowed "quarters" for...

His comments about talking with a lisp and imitating Joseph in a low voice were especially degrading. He probably had to hold himself from calling him a homosexual. (although I'm sure it will come up if this debate keeps up)

But, Alex is right that people should research before they jump on the Z bandwagon. I personally know very little about the Venus Project and I'm not about to jump in after seeing a single movie.

I like the points G. Edward Griffin makes in his Zeitgeist critique. (I also thought Lincoln's greenbacks were good... )




[edit on 17/10/08 by ConspiracyNut23]

Originally posted by zman

Originally posted by LynUK
Can someone advise me. In this ZA 'utopia', who does the unpleasant jobs that technology will never replace?

Right now, they are done by humans, who do these jobs because they get some reward (eg money).

Take the money away, or the need for it, who does these jobs while the rest fart around unleashing their 'creativity' painting or playing golf all day?

Get real, not all jobs will be done by technology, they will always need caring, empathic humans. Think of old-age care homes full of people who cannot eat, wash or toilet themselves, or the 24/7 care of the severely disabled, just TWO examples Robbie The Robot don't cut it at.

Maybe 'utopia' will just do away with the old or sick? A Brave New World.




[edit on 17-10-2008 by LynUK]

No golf.. That is a money sport. And since there is no money, there is no crap to clean up either. Hence no money no food. I quess we will have our own robot and it will take care of the mess. I can not believe they, meaning supporters of this scam, have not answered any of my questions. They can not. Re-education in a class room setting can not be achived due to my stubborn nature, so I will have to be introduced to shock treatments to remove all my past feelings of having that cigarette,playing golf, or even thinking about a MItF. Its a scam , and it is not going to happen. Sorry, but its true, I am a man, I have feelings, does Mr. Joseph then want to make me a unican. Oh he goes against the system, so now he cleans the toltiet, takes out the garbage, and wipes his butt. No thanks, I rebel, as it is the nature of man to do so.

You are of course right.

There will be no reply, because falling at this most basic stumbling block shows that without murder (sorry, 'reconditioning') of our frail old and sick, there will be no 'utopia'.

Party's over, lights out.

Originally posted by patriot jim
For me, Alex Jones has a big ego and a big mouth to go with it. He is a master spin artist to make profits for himself. I would not want him at any protest that I would be in- because he is such a buffoon- he would immediately discredit the protest. He reminds me of the Weathermen faction that spoiled the sds 60's movement. But, yes he has turned many onto researching the truth and seeing thru the illusion, but he is a parasite living off the truth movement.

Couldn't have said it better myself. He says as a movement we need to stick together and not have infighting and then instead of having a discussion that could have ben very enlightening, he mocks Joseph with stupid impressions of a snobby intellectual. Then the big ape got enraged when Joseph brought up the $29.95 thing haha. I thought it was a good point since the zeitgeist creator said he's forced to sells things too but not with madison avenue marketing tactics. Last time I checked Joseph was either giving his films away online or charging an even number like 5 or 10 dollars.

Alex was clearly threatened by the thought of his audience being exposed to new ideas and instead of finding common ground that they could talk about, he went right for Joseph's throat. Alex benefits from the status quo way too much so he is clinging to it for dear life like driftwood. He doesn't really want the powers that be to try and assert themselves too much because then people will start to take action by turning off their radios and taking to the streets to actually change things. He would rather keep things just the way they are, just enough oppression from big government to keep people angry and tuned in but not enough to spark a revolution in consciousness that would change our whole way of looking at the world.

It's just sad to see someone so powerless over the mental stage of consciousness that tries to dig its hooks in even deeper as it is closer and closer to being phased out. For more on that I recommend everyone check out Jean Gebser's work on the stages of consciousness, The Ever-Present Orgin

Peace

Alex was clearly threatened by the thought of his audience being exposed to new ideas and instead of finding common ground that they could talk about, he went right for Joseph's throat. Alex benefits from the status quo way too much so he is clinging to it for dear life like driftwood.

I disagree, he was alarmed at the NWO succeeding by Trojan Horse via the back door, during the night, covered in sweet-tasting sugar.

A return to a Constitutional America as the Founders suggested is hardly 'status quo', and is far closer to a real working everyman's 'utopia' than the 1984 cartoon that PJ is selling could ever be.

Alex Jones does not like any real competetion it really seems to me,he's attacking Peter Joeseph because both of Peter's flims affect his bottom line because unlike Jones he actually offers a solution to the mess we are in right now.I wolud love to hear Alex offer any real ideas other than ranting about the NWO and pushing his sponsers on his show.

Originally posted by mike dangerously
Alex Jones does not like any real competetion it really seems to me,he's attacking Peter Joeseph because both of Peter's flims affect his bottom line...

AJ had no problem letting PJ use footage from his films. Not sure how that equates to AJ being pissed that Zeitgeist is affecting his bottom line. I think what AJ was so pissed about was the fact that he was asleep at the wheel regarding the Zeitgeist movement and realized after Zeitgeist Addendum, specifically the Project Venus crap, that the ideals he stood for were being compromised.

... because unlike Jones he actually offers a solution to the mess we are in right now.

Joseph offered no solutions, just fantasy with no basis in reality. Dangerous fantasy at that.

Peace

Originally posted by mike dangerously
Alex Jones does not like any real competetion it really seems to me,he's attacking Peter Joeseph because both of Peter's flims affect his bottom line because unlike Jones he actually offers a solution to the mess we are in right now.I wolud love to hear Alex offer any real ideas other than ranting about the NWO and pushing his sponsers on his show.

That's a cheap shot and Troy-brand b.s.

reply to post by mike dangerously

I've noticed the solutions of Jones involve buying survival products from his sponsors.

Buy a bunch of MRE's.

Buy a bunch of gold and silver have it delivered to your house. Buy a safe for the gold and silver.Buy a gun so you can fend off the hoards of hungry people who will come for your food,silver ,and gold.

This is okay for a short term survival strategy ,but a long term survival strategy the barbaric hoard must be given shelter and their talents must be used in a meaningful way to enhance civilization. Fema can not be allowed to take care of the homeless because eventually they will take care of guys who have stock piles of gold and guns; these things will be no match for tanks.

Hopefully people will check into the zeitgist ideas at the very least barter should be used whenever possible to enhance and preserve wealth.

I found the interview to be an interesting one and quite annoying due to bombastic jones going all over the place.

Sigh, there is way too much to say to really articulate my point well via this forum. Alex seems to think that "his" solutions are best, at least that is how he makes it sound. Example, he won't allow anyone to talk about, say a violent revolt or a march on washington or congress growing a pair because he says it won't work because they'll just use the bomb on them. His solution is to work at the local levels on up. Which is a retarded idea and once that movement reaches a point where it is a threat to the power structure, it will also be met with force. He says we need to bargain with them, sigh. My issue with zeitgeist, mainly, is that it jumps from point A (current social status) to point C (better tomorrow) without really discussing what goes on during the "B phase." Truth be told, granted good and evil are perceived judgments based on the perspective of the observer. However, both are valid labels for certain learned sets of observable behavior. Dark is dark and light is light, those are path choices and once one makes said choices one agrees to abide by those labels. That said, dark only understands/respects force equal to or greater than itself. It doesn't want to bargain (unless it sees gain from it) and it doesn't care who or what is hurt/damaged. it only cares to meet it's desires and goals. Light thinks that it knows better than everyone else and seeks to do things "for the greater good because we know better and mean well." Refer to the road to hell on that one. In our current cicumstances, I do not believe it is possible to fix things as they exist. A complete (or nearly complete) destruction of society (yes, that means a LOT of death, grow up it happens) and a re-structure from the ground up. How can you prevent the same # from happening again? You can't unless you are willing to ensure that the majority (if not all of) the population thinks alike and agrees on rules for the greater good. This would require the "re-education" everyone fears, rightly so, OR it would require a population or intelligent, highly discerning individuals willing to cooperate. The naive would say we have something like this now. NO, we have a system of "do this that way or you'll be punished" to keep people from doing goofy things. There is no peaceful way out of this people, you're just going to have to understand that and be prepared to deal with it. Dark doesn't just "wake up" one day and realize it has been infringing on the free will of others, apologize then walk away. You people that think this is NWO stuff...grow up and expand your perspective. What zeitgeist is proposing is what MAY BE so long as there is NO manipulation involved. Just because the dark morons take valid concepts, mix them in with their own crap and try to force it on others doesn't make the concepts any less valid if you can see past the dark propaganda. Alex and others that follow him REFUSE to see past the dark curtain and have become so accustomed to being manipulated (understandable) that they just assume that evil is inborn and will eventually come again. This is partially accurate but can be dealt with by intelligent, sovereign and discerning individuals willing to destroy it should it attempt to force it's ways on others. As I said, "evil" doesn't respect force weaker than itself, it only recognizes something that is stronger or more cunning, whatever. And no, just because something is of the light polartiy doesn't mean and automatic "win" over dark. That is a bull# moral construct and pompous lightside propaganda. Both polarities have there issues and agendas they seek to force onto others for their own reasons. The answer is to find a balance and try to enforce that balance should the need arise via whatever means required.

The problem with alex jones' solution is it isolates us from our fellow man. This is actually what the elites want. That is why he is allowed to rant on his little show. Now the zeitgeist idea, however far off from our current reality, IS a threat. It threatens their whole system of wealth concentration and technological suppression. It threatens their grip on the social order. It is hard to imagine this society now, but that is half the battle. What needs to happen is a huge shift in the global consciousness, bringing our wayward egos back together as one, the way we were destined to live. If we weren't slaves to the debt based system and ideological restrictiveness we could pursue something better, something to improve our living conditions and knowledge. If everyone could decide for themselves at birth what god to believe in (or not believe in), I have to believe we will be smarter, more reasoning, critical thinkers that can do anything we put our minds to without being held back by archaic beliefs.

What I want to know is why the hell haven't we been exploring space and going to the stars? What the hell is holding us back? Money?

Originally posted by mike dangerously
I wolud love to hear Alex offer any real ideas other than ranting about the NWO and pushing his sponsers on his show.

He does. Every show. It's called following the Constitution to the letter. Until that experiment gets a chance to prove itself, let's stay in reality and not PJ's Alice's Wonderland, where the frail old and 24/7 sick people (who cannot be looked after by robots) conveniently don't exist.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by LynUK]

reply to post by LynUK
The Constitution is great, but we have a class of people who have unlimmited access to money ;this gives them the power to convince our politicians to ingnore the constitution. The mob of people is the answer to our problems. The mob has talents. If the Zeitgest people can teach the hungry mob to work and meet each others need without using the coin of our corrupters, this system of enslavement which is detroying America and the whole world will collapse under its own arrogance.

reply to post by LynUK
Following the constitution is doomed to faliure when you consider how totally compromised our political system is there is no chance for it to work when the entire system is against it.



[edit on 17-10-2008 by mike dangerously]

reply to post by eradown
Yup and you forgot the part where he sugests you buy various edtions of his and other people he approves of DVDs and books.

Originally posted by eradown
reply to post by LynUK

 

The Constitution is great, but we have a class of people who have unlimmited access to money ;this gives them the power to convince our politicians to ingnore the constitution. The mob of people is the answer to our problems. The mob has talents. If the Zeitgest people can teach the hungry mob to work and meet each others need without using the coin of our corrupters, this system of enslavement which is detroying America and the whole world will collapse under its own arrogance.

Wrong. Followed properly, a sovereign currency would not allow the bankers to stay so powerful as they have been, and a properly followed Constitution would not allow the admitted corruption we have seen for so many years. There would be no more Constitutionally illegal Bilderberg meets, the Logan Act would be enforced, etc etc

Originally posted by mike dangerously
reply to post by eradown

 

Yup and you forgot the part where he sugests you buy various edtions of his and other people he approves of DVDs and books.

How cruel to ridicule him for not magically producing the tens of thousands PER MONTH that websites he runs need. He don't live like no royalty bub, he ploughs all he has into getting the word out.

How would YOU fund the websites costs, upkeep and bandwidth?

Originally posted by mike dangerously
reply to post by LynUK

 

Following the constitution is doomed to faliure when you consider how totally compromised our political system is there is no chance for it to work when the entire system is against it.



[edit on 17-10-2008 by mike dangerously]

A Constitutional government, which follows the Constitution true and to-the-letter, would not have all these corrupt devils. Look man, I'm just saying give the Constitution a chance to work in our 'modern world'. It never has been given that chance yet in modern times (due to corporate bribes). It is a truly beautiful document that some days looks divinely inspired. We have nothing like it in the UK or anywhere else in the world. But corrupt politicians and a lazy populace has let bad men trample all over it for generations.

Give it a chance, with the Truth men like Jones are trying to spread, and hopefully one day a government run by honest men like Ron Paul -now that is one zeitgeist I would get behind any day.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by LynUK]

I love how people think these NWO elites are just going to magically disappear without any kind of fight.

I'm shaking my head at some of these responses.

Peace

In reference to the Illuminati on good/evil:

"Behold our secret. Remember that the end justifies the means."
- Adam Weishaupt, founder of the Bavarian Illuminati

In other words, there is no good or evil, just the motives that further their agenda.

If you really want to get technical though, good and evil does not exist in nature and is the manifestation of right and wrong on human perception. The only thing that exist in the animal kingdom is instinct.