Why survivalists go offwire when they form groups

Once again the control freakery of the left in Europe is using fear as a tool to further infringe upon our rights to privacy. The problem with these anti terror laws is that they do not specify WHO the terrorists are, and in the case of most socialists and Pro EU types, terrorists are anyone who objects to the future formation of a single socialist super state that forces diversity, multi culturalism and political correctness down everyones throats. Dont forget that even this current UK government used to condemn survivalists who stockpiled and cached food and supplies in good times as " Hoarders". We were condemned by the lefties right up to 10 AM on the 11th of Sept 2001, when suddenly it became perfectly acceptable for everyone to created or buy disaster survival kits.

Now look at the artricle below and you can see why the closet communists of the left are ever more desperate to intercept communicatuions between people who may object to their plans. This is why normal decent and law abidding survivalists who form groups are stopping using the internet as a communication media.


Police may get more data powers

Jacqui Smith said intercepting communications was 'vital'

Jacqui Smith has set out plans to give the police and security services more powers to gather phone and e-mail data.

The home secretary said police risked losing the ability to fight crime and terrorism without new laws.

The government is considering creating a giant database to store details of every UK phone call and e-mail sent.

Ms Smith stressed the "content" of conversations would not be stored but she wanted a national debate on what new powers should be introduced.

And she warned that without increasing their capacity to store data, the police and security services would have to consider a "massive expansion of surveillance".

Plans to collect more data on people's phone, e-mail and web-browsing habits are expected to be included in the Communications Data Bill, due to be introduced in the Queen's Speech in November.

'Vital capability'

In a speech to the Institute of Public Policy Research, Ms Smith said: "Our ability to intercept communications and obtain communications data is vital to fighting terrorism and combating serious crime, including child sex abuse, murder and drugs trafficking.

"Communications Data - that is, data about calls, such as the location and identity of the caller, not the content of the calls themselves - is used as important evidence in 95% of serious crime cases and in almost all Security Service operations since 2004.


There are no plans for an enormous database which will contain the content of your emails, the texts that you send or the chats you have on the phone or online
Jacqui Smith

"But the communications revolution has been rapid in this country and the way in which we intercept communications and collect communications data needs to change too.

"If it does not we will lose this vital capability that we currently have and that, to a certain extent, we all take for granted.

"The capability that enabled us to convict Ian Huntley for the Soham murders and that enabled us to achieve the convictions of those responsible for the 21/7 terrorist plots against London."

She said the "changes we need to make may require legislation" and there may even have to be legislation "to test what a solution to this problem will look like".

There will also be new laws to protect civil liberties, she added, and she announced a public consultation starting in the New Year on the plans.

"I want this to be combined with a well-informed debate characterised by openness, rather than mere opinion, by reason and reasonableness," she told the IPPR.

'Necessity'

One option being considered by the government is the creation of a single, centralised database containing records of all telephone numbers called, time and location of calls, websites visited and e-mail addresses used by UK citizens.

The idea has provoked concern among experts, including the government's own reviewer of anti-terror laws, Lord Carlile, who said it was "awful" as a "raw idea" but could be acceptable with appropriate oversight.

But Ms Smith moved to reassure people that there were no plans to monitor and store the content of all e-mails and phone conversations.

"There are no plans for an enormous database which will contain the content of your emails, the texts that you send or the chats you have on the phone or online.

"Nor are we going to give local authorities the power to trawl through such a database in the interest of investigating lower level criminality under the spurious cover of counter terrorist legislation.

"Local authorities do not have the power to listen to your calls now and they never will in future. You would rightly object to proposals of this kind and I would not consider them.

"What we will be proposing will be options which follow the key principles which govern all our work in this area - the principles of proportionality and necessity."

There are many reasons to organise meets and talk over things in detail that are better kept offline...the spectre of 'anti-terror laws being one, that, and the discussion of RVs/bugout routes/offline communications/equipment/caches need to be kept on a face-2-face basis if group-integrity is to be preserved

The problem is, that any creativly-thinking police officer could apply a whole range of powers to us 'survies' under the anti-terror bill, and that scares me to be honest

And you should be scared.
Those who think outside the box and just want to survive will be targeted, as they are not "normal".
But it is them that will end up surviving and creating a new civilization out of the chaos that is about to ensue.

I also think that those who have a "knitting club", will also be treated with suspicion as they have a private group that convenes once a week.
Maybe a bit over the top but that is how bad it will become.

Originally posted by citizen smith
There are many reasons to organise meets and talk over things in detail that are better kept offline...the spectre of 'anti-terror laws being one, that, and the discussion of RVs/bugout routes/offline communications/equipment/caches need to be kept on a face-2-face basis if group-integrity is to be preserved

The problem is, that any creativly-thinking police officer could apply a whole range of powers to us 'survies' under the anti-terror bill, and that scares me to be honest

Thats probably why the advert of closed circuit E mail survival groups became so popular, and why anything other than brief intros and introductions are best kept to RZs and gatherings, but generally I think as long as we dont appear to threaten the establishment they will just ignore us.Where in the US of A some groups like Militias and minutemen activally threaten insurection against their govt, we dont, we still prefer democracy even though its wasted on your average benefit claiming chav.

What happens is they toss that buzzword terrorist around over and over again until the umbrella encompasses basically anyone who disagrees with the state. Any organized group that shows any distrust or negative view point toward the government is seen as a threat.

They do the same here in the US. The group could be nothing more than concerned and enlightened citizens who are afraid from all of the personal rights abuses who meet to talk with other like minded individuals.

Next thing you know you are infiltrated, monitored and before you know it you are blacklisted as a subversive. The way these new terror laws read they can treat law abiding citizens within the same parameters as suspected Al Quaida operatives.

Look at Waco, look at Ruby Ridge, this has been done before.


And you may think Im loco for suggesting it, but if you really want to see an outline of things to come go online and read a copy of The Turner Diaries. It isnt what they made it out to be, and there is a whole lot of frightening truth in there that is verifiable by what is already happening.

The reason it was given such a horrible label is because it outlines everything that they dont want normal Joe's reading.

I feel like government would target a survival group for one reason only:

They don't like to see self sufficiency in people or groups.

They want everyone locked into their system.

If too many people can get by this way, government would become obsolete.

Uh, you sure you mean communists? Are you sure you don't mean any political part? I really doubt Brown's government can be called communist. Also i really object to your demonisation of the left. They're not out to curtail your freedoms.

Anyway, politics over with, it'd be best just to get the heck out now anyway. Canada seems alright, lots of wilderness to attempt to hide in, plus much less surveillance than here.

Last time I was 'offwire' in a group meeting.Citizen Smith forced beer down my throat and made me throw my boomerang in the sea

AGREED on the OP.
Having a bit of a giggle online is fine,but anything you post is easily enough found.
Maybe lay a trail of disinfo and inaccuracies that anyone,that you don't want REALLY knowing what is going on,can enjoy their merry little selves following those lovely little wild geese all over the place..

Next meet is 03.00hrs in Aberystwyth.
Password is "sgleinio fel ceilliau ci"
Ask any large passing Welshman for directions.

Originally posted by Venit
Uh, you sure you mean communists? Are you sure you don't mean any political part? I really doubt Brown's government can be called communist. Also i really object to your demonisation of the left. They're not out to curtail your freedoms.

Anyway, politics over with, it'd be best just to get the heck out now anyway. Canada seems alright, lots of wilderness to attempt to hide in, plus much less surveillance than here.

Sir I did not demonise the left, their track record in every nation that has tried socialism has proven that, no matter what nice face it applies, socialism, marxism, communism or labourism its all the same thing, an ever increasing number of none productive people living off the back of an ever declining number of producers. In every state that tried going left the social welfare bill only every grows and grows and grows, until you get happening what is happening to most socialist states right now, Implosion.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Last time I was 'offwire' in a group meeting.Citizen Smith forced beer down my throat and made me throw my boomerang in the sea

AGREED on the OP.
Having a bit of a giggle online is fine,but anything you post is easily enough found.
Maybe lay a trail of disinfo and inaccuracies that anyone,that you don't want REALLY knowing what is going on,can enjoy their merry little selves following those lovely little wild geese all over the place..

Next meet is 03.00hrs in Aberystwyth.
Password is "sgleinio fel ceilliau ci"
Ask any large passing Welshman for directions.

Most of the serious survivalists I have dealt with since 1979 almost never come onto the internet any more, Instead they simply gather at preset intervals at pre arranged locations and do their discussing and debating over a BBQ and BEER at some nice out the way rural area. I think they get worn down by people with wierd and wonderful of cooperatives and communes leading a self sufficient lifsetyle, under the guiding hand of one forthright person in charge.

[edit on 15-10-2008 by Northern Raider]

Ah, but you made a connection between communism and the left, communism is an ideology that some that are left wing have, not all those that are left wing are communist. And yes, i agree with you that Communism is a spectacularly bad idea and i'm a leftie.

Originally posted by AGENT_T
Last time I was 'offwire' in a group meeting, Citizen Smith forced beer down my throat and made me throw my boomerang in the sea

oooh you li'l fibber, you needed no encouragement in that department!