Bodies strapped to seats on AA77, Pentagon?

Originally posted by MorningStar8741
If you are so bent on order and oginization then perhaps you should actually read the thread this time. The original claim was made by a 'believer' on anothe thread. The OP was trying to be respectful of just how stupid that person was by leaving the name out and saying ok, if that is so, where is the evidence of that.

MorningStar, you and I have crossed swords before (about ULTIMA1 being banned). However, I am glad that you're able to see the purpose and intent of this thread and you perfectly summed it up in the above quote.

Thanks for that.

argentus, hopefully it makes some sense to you now?

(Anyway, my question is this:
We're lead to believe that an alleged high speed crash of the alleged Flight UA93 virtually smashed the bodies on the plane into unrecognisable goo. There were no reports of any bodies being strapped to seats at Shanksville. In fact, were there any seats allegedly found?

However, during another alleged high speed crash of the alleged Flight AA77 at the Pentagon, we're lead to believe that bodies can survive wholly intact, still strapped to their seats.

Which is it, believers? Does the 'soft' ground of an old strip-mine swallow a plane whole, while not leaving bodies intact. Or, does the reinforced, bunker-like walls of a building, smash the plane up while leaving some bodies intact?)


The OP is asking a question folks read the above!!!
My “opinion is if there was a plane that really crash at the Pentagon at a high rate of speed, there wouldn’t be any bodies to be found. I find it imposable to believe they found any passengers strap to airplane seats. Heck! The seat belt straps alone would have burnt in the fiery impact. For all of you in here who says they found bodies strap in their seats, you all do not have any proof, only what some witness said to the press. I and many people in this country have lost faith in our media since they have been proven liars, and we all know our media works with the White House, and the Pentagon. Once proven a liar, are always liars.
As I said before, passengers found in their seats is only hear say I don’t care who said they saw What! What I want is real proof show us the coroners report cause of death, or autopsy report and some crime scene photos since it was supposed to be a crime scene.
Those that believe everything the media tells you have to be gullible.


[edit on 10/17/2008 by cashlink]

[edit on 10/17/2008 by cashlink]

So you are STILL not able to tell me the names of the alleged corpses that were strapped to the seats, with supporting verification?

So TEZZAJW why don't you make a FOIA (Freedom of Information Act)
request to the FBI - they are the ones on possession of all the information
on the body recovery.

An excert from a report on emergency response to the disaster:
The following approach was applied to the recovery of Pentagon Incident fatalities: When a victim was located, work in the area was halted to protect the body, personal belongings, and evidence. An FBI evidence team (one of several on constant standby in front of the collapse) would document the site and gather evidence. If physical extrication was required, a Rescue Squad from the assigned US&R task force was given this task. The next step in the process was a Military Mortuary Team who collected and removed the victim from the building.

All the debris removed from the building was spread out by the heavy equipment, and (on the signal of the IST US&R Specialist) the equipment would stop and Canine Search Teams from the US&R Task Forces would deploy across the material in search of any scent indicating human remains. Then US&R Search Team members would conduct a physical search for remains, crawling and walking over all the debris. Finally, after being searched three or more times, the debris would be loaded into trucks with skip loaders, where it would be taken to one of the Pentagon parking lots to be further combed for human remains and evidence by the FBI, ATF, Military units, and the Arlington Police Department."
www.ukfssart.org.uk...

All I can do is quote from printed reports by the rescue/recovery personnel
on the scene.

Rather than whining submit a FOIA and post the results HERE! Or is it
that you are afraid that your paranoid little fantasy might get punctured?

Originally posted by thedman
All I can do is quote from printed reports by the rescue/recovery personnel on the scene.

Finally!

Thanks for admitting that you can't prove the reports are true!

All that you can do is to quote from them, without being able to verify which bodies, if any, were strapped to airline seats.

Isn't it easier to admit that you can't prove something, rather than trying to drag it out over many pages?

I saw earlier mention of deceleration forces and it's significant to this question. I won't try to put exact figures on any of this but a plane impacting the ground would roughly experience twice the G's or more compared to a plane impacting and penetrating a relatively porous structure like a building.

Objects from the rear of the plane would suffer less damage than those at the front (having more distance in which to come to a standstill) in either case depending on what they impact and what impacts them from behind. This is a highly chaotic situation therefore unpredictable in outcomes but as to whether it's possible that a passenger could remain relatively intact in their seat - I'd say it was possible, just a very low probability that decreases rapidly with increasing deceleration G's such as in the case of hitting the ground head-on.

Originally posted by newagent89
reply to post by Dr Love

 

Don't say that if you aren't going to back it up with proof of the caliber that this thread is looking for. I like this thread and the engaging style of the original poster. Do not respond to this, wasting space, unless you have proof, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that there was no plane. Do not say "common sense"; do not say "look at the pictures"; do not say "one high up witness said it looked like a global hawk." While that kind of research may work for some people, this tread expects rigor and quality to statements. Doing this kind of research is, in my opinion, fun. However, I have nothing to add other than keeping this thread consistent, so I have remained relatively quiet. You should too.

There's nothing to research, a 757 doesn't fit into the hole in the wall. It's absolutely, positively the most damning evidence as far as the Pentagon attack goes. It's so damning that 'they'll' do anything to keep you distracted from it, including tactics such as calling for proof beyond a shadow of doubt (AKA more crap they can cherry pick in order to confuse) and calling for people not to use their "common sense" (that was a real gem BTW ).

K.I.S.S.

Peace


[edit on 17-10-2008 by Dr Love]

reply to post by Pilgrum


At the rate of speed of 500 mph you are travelling at close to 750 feet per second.

It matters not which direction you are travelling, because when the vehicle you are riding in stops, you continue to travel at 750 feet per second. It matters not whether the ground or a building stops your vehicle you do not stop as you are not attached or bolted to the vehicle, you are just "riding" in the vehicle.

750 feet per second might not sound fast until you compare it to the length of a football field. A football field is 300 feet long. Divide 750 by 300 and it is 2.5 football fields per second.
Remember, the vehicle stops but the person "riding" in the vehicle does not. The seat belts, being bolted to the vehicle would stop, and probably bisect/trisect those wearing one.

Free falling from 10,000 feet and when you hit the ground at "terminal velocity" you are only travelling 125 mph or about 167 feet per second. Or a little over a third of a football field per second.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by fmcanarney]

Originally posted by Dr Love
a 757 doesn't fit into the hole in the wall. It's absolutely, positively the most damning evidence as far as the Pentagon attack goes.

Can you show me what damage you would have expected? This is a composite photo produced from many available pictures that shows the immediate damage after impact:

Originally posted by thedman
Some of you truther sick puppies complain about wanting to see pictures
of bodies from the Pentagon

Enjoy

Can you tell me when the hijackers made the passengers change into orange jumpsuits? Thanks.

reply to post by exponent


I do not know where you got that picture, you need to site your source thank you.

Originally posted by tezzajw

While the complete sum of proof that you have offered to prove your claims is... nothing.

That's correct.

Especially since I haven't made any claims, other than to show that you need to show evidence, other than a question from incredulity, that the different condition of the bodies at the 2 crash sites is suspicious.

Once again, please show exactly WHY the victims should look similar. This is the basis for your argument.....your OP is a question from incredulity about why the bodies look different, and you claim through inference that they shouldn't.

Originally posted by cashlink
reply to post by exponent

 

I do not know where you got that picture, you need to site your source thank you.

The source for this composite is undicisettembre.blogspot.com...

The source for the various pictures it uses are varied, if you require more information to confirm the edges of the damage is accurate, many of the debunking sites have a reasonable collection.

Originally posted by Seymour Butz

Originally posted by tezzajw
While the complete sum of proof that you have offered to prove your claims is... nothing.

That's correct.

Another breakthrough!

On the same page where thedman has admitted that all he can do is quote from a report, we've finally got you admitting that you won't prove anything, Seymour.

If you manage to find the forensic reports that identify those alleged bodies (strapped to airline seats) by name, I know you'll come rushing back to the screen to enlighten us all.

Thanks for playing. It's been great! That's two people, on the same page, who have admitted that they can't prove the witness reports of bodies being strapped to airline seats. Cool.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by tezzajw]

reply to post by exponent


You know this is about to piss me off, this is a tampered picture!
Furthermore if a plane crashes in that hole those spools of undamaged cable would not be there. I see you like to present your proof, from debunking sites and a site that is not even English speaking. I find it odd that the photo dose not show the ground ether.

This is not proof! It has been tampered with, any lawyer would have that photo thrown out of court because it was tampered with.

Furthermore if a plane crashes in that hole those spools of undamaged cable would not be there. I see you like to present your proof, from debunking sites and a site that is not even English speaking. I find it odd that the photo dose not show the ground ether.

Because the blog owner is not American (he is Italian) and posts BOTH in
Italian and English his information is not valid? Many of of the posters
on ATS are not American either - so their posts are not valid?

You said because the cable spools were not distrubed picture is fake?

There are large projections under the wings of a 757 (jet engines) and
the fuselage (landing gear fairings) Also there were two holes smashed
into Pentagon. Lower impact hole was created by the wings and measured
from 75 to 90 feet (view was hiden by equipment, smoke and water from firefighters). Upper impact hole on the second floor measured about 16
feet in diameter - fuselage of 757 was 15.5 ft. Problem is very few pictures of the area and quality is poor because of smoke, equipment
and water fog blocking views. This section of wall collapsed 45 min after
impact.


Picture of lower impact hole - note cable drums knocked askew



Upper impact hole - indicated by intense fire center of picture



Clearer wide field shot of impact location

/q67lv

That's two people, on the same page, who have admitted that they can't prove the witness reports of bodies being strapped to airline seats. Cool.


What part of the firemen's accounts do you not believe? As far as "proof"
can only work with what is in public domain

Here is FOIA form for the FBI - if you are not a troll and really on a search
for "truth" why don't you request the "proof" you are demanding

foia.fbi.gov...

It put up or shut up time!

Originally posted by thedman
What part of the firemen's accounts do you not believe?

The part where firemen are not trained coroners.
The part where the firemen did not perform an autopsy or DNA testing to identify the alleged bodies, strapped to airline seats, by name, as being people who were allegedly passengers on the alleged Flight AA77.

thedman, you've helped out as much as you can in this thread and you've admitted that all you can do is to quote from some eyewitness reports, without being able to find any forensic proof that there were any bodies strapped to airline seats.

I think that I'm bored of this thread now. You and Seymour have come around and finally admitted that the eyewitness reports can not be substantiated with FACT. There's no point beating a dead horse.

You, Seymour, Swampfox, et. al. can all have the last reply! I'm sure that there won't be any FACTS mentioned either, unless you're collectively saving your best for last?

reply to post by thedman


This is not enough evidence to prove a plane crashed! It lacks airplane debris to start with. You are entitle to your own opinion, however what I see is what an explosion would do, that’s my opinion.

You do not need to defend “exponent” I am sure he is a big boy who can speak for himself.

( Lower impact hole was created by the wings and measured
from 75 to 90 feet )

Really! In addition, where are those wings, surely they would have torn off. You really think that aluminum airplane wings made of light aluminum did all that. You are parroting the media and Government lies tell me something that I don’t know?

Originally posted by tezzajw

The part where firemen are not trained coroners.

You need a "trained coroner" to see a body strapped to an airline seat in an airline accident scene?

The part where the firemen did not perform an autopsy or DNA testing to identify the alleged bodies, strapped to airline seats, by name, as being people who were allegedly passengers on the alleged Flight AA77.

Since when do firemen do autopsies or DNA testing or even identify bodies, by name?

I think that I'm bored of this thread now. You and Seymour have come around and finally admitted that the eyewitness reports can not be substantiated with FACT. There's no point beating a dead horse.

You, Seymour, Swampfox, et. al. can all have the last reply! I'm sure that there won't be any FACTS mentioned either, unless you're collectively saving your best for last?

Great! Perhaps now we can have a rational discussion on why the physical evidence at the Pentagon is overwhelmingly convincing beyond any reasonable doubt that a 757 impacted the building and bodies, still strapped in their seats, were discovered/seen by rescue/recovery personnel.

reply to post by cashlink


Cash,

Can you and Dora tell Spike and I what the Pentagon SHOULD have looked like if a 757 crashed into it?

Thanks in advance to both of your for your cooperation!

TY & Spike