Bodies strapped to seats on AA77, Pentagon?

reply to post by habu71


But why the statement about coersion?

Do you not realize the dead end you've constructed by saying that?

This indicates that even if we were to bring these docs, you would say they were fabricated.

Why would anyone bother at this point trying to prove anything to you?

At this point, YOU need to bring your own evidence that questions the court accepted evidence. And then, I will counter it. That's the way it works when you take that path. You made your own bed.... now you can lie in it.

Originally posted by tezzajw

More than two people confirmed that the alleged plane flew North of Citgo, why ignore this? A flight path North of Citgo directly contradicts the official story.

1- there are more that say this is wrong.

2- many of the NoC witnesses say the plane hit the Pentagon.

3- like you said, eyewitness testimony only corroborates physical evidence, it doesn't trump it.

Originally posted by Seymour Butz
At this point, YOU need to bring your own evidence that questions the court accepted evidence.

Please show which part of the court accepted evidence proved that there were bodies found strapped to airline seats.

Once you've done that, we'll continue to discuss it, as though it is real.

Originally posted by habu71

Two people made statements, they might have been actual observations, but even the USG would normally photograph such an horrific scene. I have a problem with the fact that little if any has been released. What we have seen is not typical of a major aircraft accident.

Then you should have no problem linking me to every major aircraft accident.

i want to see photos of dead bodies, COMPLETE forensic reports, etc.

Otherwise, your point is false.

No, I only bring up coercion because it is common when national security is an issue..........

I have seen no accident investigation reports including EVIDENCE that document an aircraft and passengers that impacted the Pentagon. As i have now said 3 times, I welcome any links to information I can review.

Standard investigation techniques require that witness statements are taken, analyzed and corroborated and physical evidence is either classified as supporting or contrary.

Are there official aircraft accident reports available to the public?

reply to post by Seymour Butz


Actually, no, because the NTSB and FAA reports of aircraft accidents are public records.

Big difference in questioning one accident versus the entire aircraft accident history.

Address the current secrecy regarding part serial numbers, aircraft data, fdr anomalies and Pentagon security cam tapes.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by habu71]

reply to post by habu71


So we should see the dead bodies as well then, right? In every report of every plane crash, there should be a whole section of pictures of bodies. And the detailed reports of the forensic data, ID'ing the victims as well, should all be available too. Is that how they do it?

reply to post by habu71


How many videos are being withheld? None.
Are you referring to the so called "85 Pentagon Tapes"? I think we covered this already on another thread and there is no secrecy behind them.
www.flight77.info...

reply to post by habu71


You're dodging.

Give links to a few major accidents that include photos, etc.

Otherwise, you're lying.

Originally posted by habu71
No, I only bring up coercion because it is common when national security is an issue..........

So it's like I said, you will say that since it is a national security issue, the reports may be fabricated.

At this point, YOU need to bring evidence, since you have poisoned the well.

Originally posted by tezzajw

as though it is real.

Same for you.

You have poisoned the well with this. You are saying that you will not accept it.

Bring your own evidence.

Or better yet, what is the purpose of this thread? How does whether or not there were bodies further 9/11 CT's?

The only road, that you have laid out earlier, is that you are personally incredulous that there would be whole bodies at the Pentagon, but only body fragments at Shanksville.

This is not a strong argument.

Please show which part of the court accepted evidence proved that there were bodies found strapped to airline seats.

Link to NTSB report on crash - as can see all the evidence is in possession
of the FBI.

www.ntsb.gov...

While can try to file FOIA request to release the evidence, most likely
would have to sue in Federal court to have FBI release its
records.

I would like to see the reports too - unfortuantely not likely to get them soon so have to work with what is in public domain.

Know any good lawyers willing to work pro bono?

Originally posted by Seymour Butz
You have poisoned the well with this. You are saying that you will not accept it.
Bring your own evidence.

Huh?

Seymour, have you been lucid and in control of your faculties while reading and posting in this thread?

I have asked you to prove that there were bodies strapped to airline seats.

You failed to do so. You can not prove that there were bodies strapped to airline seats.

Any further posturing about what I *might* or *might not* do, is an off-topic rant.

This thread should have ended on page 8, after you, thedman and ThroatYogurt all admitted that you can't prove there were bodies strapped to airline seats.

Personally, I don't know why you all keep coming back to bump the thread, but thanks for increasing my points tally. I appreciate it! You've added nothing new from page 8 onwards and you all admit to not being able to prove that bodies were strapped to airline seats.

Thanks......posters claim the photos showed AA77 pax in seats.....subsequent post, including mine, simply asked for proof that the photos were of AA77 pax at the Pentagon..........video and audio statements don't do it, just like statements not under oath don't do it......Just simply looking for EVIDENCE backing the claim that AA77 pax were found in seats at the Pentagon....

NOPE!!! April Gallup saw NO passengers in seats. April Gallup saw NO passengers, NO aircraft parts. NO baggage, NO empty seats, NO sign of an aircraft. In fact April Gallup saw NO jet fuel at all. April Gallup was within 35-45 feet of the alleged impact hole of an alleged 90 ton jet aircraft supposedly carrying lots of jet fuel and she saw NO sign of jet fuel. April Gallup and little Elijah did not even get burned up by the jet fuel at the Pentagon which never existed.

The jet fuel would be liquid and perhaps already on fire, and the defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT) claim their 757 pierced the wall along its entire wingspan. April Gallup said NO JET FUEL. If there had been an aircraft impact such as envisioned by the official fairy tale, the jet fuel would have entered the building and enveloped April and Elijah and burned them up. The jet fuel would have splattered everything in its path. But there was no sign of jet fuel anywhere was there?

In actuality there was originally only a 16-18 foot hole through the wall until they deliberately collapsed the roof with explosives about a half hour later. The original explosive blasting the 16-18 foot hole through the wall and emanating possibly from a construction trailer would have been directional, and April and Elijah off to the side of the directional blast would have been protected by the remaining wall section and columns from the blast's direct effects. Also office partitions might have granted some protection.

They still experienced the collapsing ceiling and other rubble caused by the explosion(s), but no jet fuel. April Gallup witnessed no jet fuel at all, either inside nor outside. Do not forget there was a heavy concrete floor slab separating the 1st story and the 2nd story which would have concentrated the alleged destruction path and exploding burning jet fuel right on April and Elijah; if there had been any jet fuel or aircraft debris.

Also the five 247 pound light poles should have ruptured the wing tanks at 535 mph, but there was no sign of jet fuel nor burning grass out on the lawn. No sign of jet fuel anywhere. Perhaps the 9-11 perps blew some fuel/air bombs further inside the Pentagon to create the illusion of burning jet fuel.

Below is how this defender (Purdue University) of the 9-11 perps and partner of 9-11 pseudoskeptics and OCT defenders, represented the jet fuel splashing and burning its way through the area April Gallup was sitting at her desk in. April and Elijah would be located about 3 columns in from the 'impact hole' where Purdue has simulated lots of burning jet fuel and shredded aircraft aluminum to totally eliminate April and little Elijah. How did they possibly survive at their official location 35-45 feet from the 'impact hole'? Don't you 9-11 OCT defenders appreciate the efforts of your partners? You should stick together better than you do and support each other.

Purdue University simulation of April Gallup and little Elijah getting burned up with non-existent jet fuel

Originally posted by SPreston
Purdue University simulation of April Gallup and little Elijah getting burned up with non-existent jet fuel

Where are the engines on that plane in the Purdue model? Didn't they realise that a plane needs engines to generate thrust and fly?

How did the wings of the plane, in the Purdue model enter the Pentagon, when there was no hole large enough for them to fit?

Wow, what an amazing stuff-up by Purdue!

Originally posted by SPreston
NOPE!!! April Gallup saw NO passengers in seats. April Gallup saw NO passengers, NO aircraft parts. NO baggage, NO empty seats, NO sign of an aircraft. In fact April Gallup saw NO jet fuel at all. April Gallup was within 35-45 feet of the alleged impact hole of an alleged 90 ton jet aircraft supposedly carrying lots of jet fuel and she saw NO sign of jet fuel. April Gallup and little Elijah did not even get burned up by the jet fuel at the Pentagon which never existed.

This my friends is cherry pickin at it's finest. This is the way of the world at the Loose Change forum. Wow April didn't see any jet fuel?

Interesting because 15 other people reported to smelling or contacting aviation/jet fuel:

Pfeilstucker Daniel C. Jr
Rosati Arthur
Schickler Rob (smelled fuel and was a mile away)
Slater Mike - smelled "oil smoke"
Turner Ron
Yates John - actually reported having jet fuel on him
Baxter, John, Col.
Birdwell Brian
Brennan, Donald
Clodfelter, George- stated Jet fuel was "raining down"
Day Wayne T.
DiPaula Michael- reported he was "covered with fuel"
Hahr, Matt
Henson Jerry
Jarvis Will

Has CIT or PFFT interviewed any of these people? Oh wait.. April didn't smell or see any jet fuel! That means there was not ANY.

Oh and 42 people mentioned seeing aircraft debris. 4 mentioned seeing airline seats. But again... April saw none of this so... she must be right!

Accident investigation techniques dictate that witness statements are used to develop possible investigation "threads, BUT, witness statements are supposed to be used to corroborate directions that physical evidence leads you.

Back to bodies in seats, are there other pictures of the scene showing bodies in seats (the original subject of this thread) other than the ones that do NOT show aircraft seats? And yes, I've seen bodies in aircraft seats before, as accidents such as low speed (therefore lower g) impacts often will damage the bodies but not remove them from the seats.

The truth movement would welcome the EVIDENCE to be released and studied my NGO's (non governmental organizations).

By the way, again in standard aircraft accident investigations, photos are taken of every major piece of the aircraft and it's location, as well as closeups of any serial number. These are also accompanied by scene photos showing the debris field BEFORE ANYTHING is moved or removed.

If these exist in the public domain, point me to them. I'll be happy to study them. Please don't point me to the photos showing the smoking hole in the wall with few aircraft parts (like wings), I've seen those, they are not representative of a B757 with fuel tanks mostly full ipacting or exploding.

reply to post by GenRadek


If bodies are found, and NTSB or USAF accident investigators are there before someone orders removal (should not happen), photos are taken because they are crucial to the investigation. Are they splashed across the MSM? No, but, they are available and subpoenable.

posted by SPreston
Purdue University simulation of April Gallup and little Elijah getting burned up with non-existent jet fuel

posted by tezzajw
Where are the engines on that plane in the Purdue model? Didn't they realise that a plane needs engines to generate thrust and fly?

How did the wings of the plane, in the Purdue model enter the Pentagon, when there was no hole large enough for them to fit?

Wow, what an amazing stuff-up by Purdue!

As you all now know, April Gallup saw no passengers, let alone passengers still strapped in their seats. They brought no baggage with them. It seems we would need an aircraft to provide the seats and passengers. The aircraft would require engines and in the case of Flight 77; JET engines. The engines would require JET fuel and there was no JET fuel; neither in the area of the 'impact hole' nor burning out on the lawn. Simple reasoning would expect JET fuel traveling at 535 mph to splash off the wall and back on the lawn. NOPE. No burning JET fuel on the lawn nor on those polyethelene undamaged cable spools right there near ground zero.



These defenders of the 9-11 perps are scientists with advanced degrees and all that. At their advamced level of intellect, they know things that are way beyond the knowledge of us mere mortals. Obviously they listened to the interview with April Gallup before completing this simulation. If there was no JET fuel in the 'impact area', then why the hell would they need JET engines? Actually considering what they are defending, their logic is not unexpected.

Guns and Butter broadcast with Dave von Kleist interviewing April Gallup. There was an explosion and she crawled out from E-Ring through the hole onto the Pentagon lawn. She saw no jet fuel and nobody burned with jet fuel. She and her baby boy were about 35-45 feet from the alleged impact hole and no jet fuel was splashed on them. What happened to the huge infernos and fuel-air explosions inside which allegedly incinerated all the aircraft parts and engines and wheel hubs and baggage and seats?

Guns and Butter April Gallup - audio live testimony

Did you also see how the tail section sailed into the Pentagon 2nd and 3rd floors unopposed by the intact upper exterior wall? Magic. 9-11 magic and illusions.

Below is how another defender (Integrated Consultants) of the 9-11 perps and partner of the forum 9-11 pseudoskeptics and OCT defenders, represented the alleged 90 ton aircraft hitting the light poles at 535 mph. Laying them down with the soft touch of a mother's loving hand. More magic. More 9-11 magic and illusions.



Pole #3


The disinformation and outright propaganda from these paid liars and other paid liars like Popular Mechanics, is disgusting.

See how smart these scientists with advanced degrees are?
They are using Newtonian Physics on us. (aka BS)



Here they basically admit they are part of an ongoing psyops mission.



But now, apparently the FAA, another Federal agency, has unexpectedly switched sides. Will FAA headquarters soon be NUKED by an angry Bush Regime?