The Mind & Heart of a Conservative

Note the faith/religion based politics shared by these Ohio conservatives:

"Misconceptions of Obama fuel Republican campaign - 13 Oct 08"


As i was saying, these "conservative minds and hearts" are warped... twisted... drunk...
they should not be allowed to vote,
until they have sobered up,
have received accurate/valid information and
can demonstrate that they comprehend the accurate/valid information.

Something equivalent to a sobriety test and DUI course.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


I don't have audio right now to listen to this video, so I'll have to ask that you answer this question for me.

Did any of these people say that they were Conservatives, or did you once again make the mistake of assuming that anyone who votes republican must be a Conservative?

As I've tried to stress so far in this thread, not everyone who is republican, votes republican, or has anything to do with republicans is a Conservative. The two are not the same thing.

I think your whole argument would be better targeted towards the republican party, not Conservatives.

"argument" ? ...my intention is not the same as yours. I made this thread to discuss, explore, research further what i find to be the weakest link of our politically active conservative populous. I didn't make this thread to debate over linguistics or which party is better.

I see you identify yourself as a "conservative"... so heavily invested in this identity that you have championed it as your subtitle in name, as well as the cause to defend it's meaning/reputation. That is all fine and good. If you look at the best intentions and practices of a "conservative" you have no need to feel threaten by this thread.

What i am questioning is the heart and mind of the conservatives who voted for Reagan, Bush Sr. & Jr. Inc. To point to the fact that not all conservatives are bi-partisan is no revelation, this is true for candidates and current congressmen as well as voters. What i am proposing is an effort to get to the core/source of a huge problem we have in this country... most people are ranting on about digital voting machines and the electoral college as causes for concern, rightfully so, but what i think we should be just as concerned about if not more so is the negative influence religion has on the conservative mind and heart of america. Now why did i choose to broaden the scope of my inquiry to include "conservatives" instead of just focus on "republicans"? Simple, it's the influence of christian & zionist lobbies with the use of scripture and propaganda to push the "conservatives" to vote Republican. These groups have been extremely successful in bringing out the right wing vote. Obviously there are conservatives who vote for Independents, Libertarians, Greens & Democrats, but these are the conservatives who have minds and hearts that can see much more clearly.

Bill Moyers did an excellent job of covering some what i've been talking about, on his investigative Journal. If you think the church's influence on the state is domestically devastating, you haven't seen the effects on foreign policy... leading us all down a road to the the end times. Very little scares me... but these people scare me.
www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03072008/watch.html

(for those who are having audio issues, there is a full transcript available just below the video)


[edit on 16-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

In 1981, one of the late great Republicans... U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater said:

"On religious issues there can be little or no compromise. There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both.

I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'"

Originally posted by The All Seeing I
I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person [*snip*] And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.'"

One thing that might come out of a potential economic depression and a potential McCain loss is the fact that the Republican party will have the opportunity to re-invent/re-form itself.

It seems The All Seeing I is trying to harken back to the roots of conservatism...I'm thinking along the lines of The Conscience of a Conservative, William F Buckley SR, George Will, Bill Krystal, etc...voices like that. The problem with this goal (and maybe someone could respond to correct me) is whether or not that kind of platform could really obtain a majority of the electorate. What becomes of "the base" of social conservatives in an outcome like that? Would fiscal conservatism and possibly libratarianism be enough to form a winning party?

Back when Ross Perot was in full swing, i used to think that his Reform Party had at the least a shot at directly or indirectly reforming both parties by holding their feet to the fire, and at best, providing a better viable alternative, but unfortunately the two party system found a way to insure their monopoly in the following presidential debates.

And as for libertarians... i lean towards Jessie Ventura's position
when he says this of Libertarian Party members: “I found out that the capital-L Libertarians are anarchists, they don’t believe there’s any role for government at all. And I certainly believe there’s a role for government, I just believe it should be far more limited than what it is. I’m fiscally conservative, but I’m socially liberal.”

But there is light at the end of the tunnel...
3rd Party advocates have orchestrated a
Third Party Debate at Columbia University
moderated by Amy Goodman of NPR's Democracy Now
"...will include at least three of the four third-party candidates - independent Ralph Nader, the Green Party's Cynthia McKinney and the Constitution Party's Chuck Baldwin. Libertarian Party nominee Bob Barr said he has a scheduling conflict, but debate organizers say he wanted to appear only with Nader. (Democratic nominee Barack Obama and Republican nominee John McCain are also invited.)"

So for those who pride themselves as "conservatives" and aren't doped up on jesus juice lol... tune in "Sunday at 7pm at Columbia University, moderated by Pacifica Radio’s Amy Goodman. No word on whether Pacifica will carry the broadcast, but it will be on C-SPAN" (whether live or not is anybody’s guess). ...and at least see what the donkeys and elephants are afraid of.

I would suggest that as a conservative in all things, I find it odd that I don't have a Presidential candidate to vote for.

I don't know who those imposters are that claim they are Republicans. We need a Conservative Party where true conservatives can pursue their agenda.

The Republican Party by abandoning core conservative values has cut their own throats.

I do think that you may have mistakenly interchanged terms, which isn't exactly accurate.

reply to post by The All Seeing I

We should have separation of church and state but unfortunately church has found a way to influence the state... through the Republican Party.

Oh, you mean like the unfortunate way that God, the Creator and Divine Providence managed to influence our Declaration of Independence?

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

and here:

And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Now, here is one of your statements:

Considering all the mess our fellow anti-progressive pro-war brothers and sisters have roped us into

You cannot make generalizations like that, and get away with it. You have stated many premises that are not true.

Pro-War?- I consider myself a conservative and I am by no means pro-war. I detest war, and believe it is an absolute last resort.
Let's see who got us into some rather major wars in the 20th century:

World War I- Woodrow Wilson, Democrat

World War II- FDR, Democrat and the ultimate liberal

Korean War- Harry Truman, Democrat

Vietnam War- JFK, Democrat and expanded to include troops by LBJ, Democrat -ENDED by Richard M. Nixon, Republican

Furthermore, "W" is no conservative by any means.

another comment by you:

As i had stated, the mind and heart of the "true" conservative has been drastically altered/twisted over time... and i have stated the cause of this mutation.

You stated the "cause of this mutation". Really? And what makes YOU such an expert that we have to take your word as fact. In fact, it is rubbish.
Don't set up straw men to be knocked down. People on ATS are too smart for that.

It would be a tremendous waste of time and effort for me to school you on something i think you should already be well informed about.

We are. but you are NOT.

Now, what is conservatism? Well, I think the first sentence in Wiki does a good job of summarizing it:

Conservatism is a term used to describe political philosophies that favour tradition, where tradition refers to various religious, cultural, or nationally defined beliefs and customs. I

Note the word religious, which you obviously despise. Also note the word tradition, which liberals have attempted to destroy in this country. In fact, liberals today have tried to destroy the very fabric of America. The things that pass as acceptable by liberals today, would be considered horrific 40 or 50 years ago.
You want to know why children don't respect authority today? In large part, because liberals tore down legitimate authority everywhere that they could.

Respect? Not many liberals have RESPECT for religion, culture, traditions, or any of the other things that conservatives treasure, including the right to life of those unborn who cannot speak for themselves.

I call it what it is- MURDER. Liberals call it "Choice". Question- What choice did the unborn have?

Liberals don't even RESPECT those in their ranks that don't agree with them on EVERY ISSUE. Look what they did to PA Gov. Casey, who was a dedicated democrat, but was against abortion. The Dem Liberals refused to let him even speak at their convention. Look at what they did to Sen. Lieberman. Just because he did not agree with them on one issue, they ostracized him, and ran an unknown Democrat against him. Fortunately for him, the voters knew better.

Your comment:

I think you guys have ATS's slogan flipped, unless it's been change recently ... it's not "deny facts" or to "deny truth"... it's to "deny ignorance"

Maybe you ought to take your own advice.

Another of your quotes:

Let me once again spell it out for you, in yet another way... the Christian Coalition and AIPAC have hijacked the GOP and everything they stand for. Their influence is so pervasive they have the Democrats spooked into giving a song and dance to this demographic of politically active bible belt conservatives and zionists.

Zionists. Oh, and the Democratic party and liberals are NOT kowtowing to Israel? Wow, that's a news flash.
And by the way, the most liberal member of the Senate, your candidate, Barack Obama, didn't kowtow to the "bible belt" as you call it, when he made his famous remark about people clinging to their religion and guns.

So, in virtually every remark you made, you have been proven wrong. Why do't you just go back to your drawing board, and think up another Hate that you can post to.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by ProfEmeritus]

reply to post by The All Seeing I

So for those who pride themselves as "conservatives" and aren't doped up on jesus juice lol... tune in "Sunday at 7pm at Columbia University, moderated by Pacifica Radio’s Amy Goodman.

Oh, right. There's someone that I certainly wouldn't expect to be "duped by Jesus juice", as she is the daughter of an Orthodox Rabbi. That is not a knock of Judaism but a fact, namely that they do not accept Jesus as the Messiah.

I really thought freedom of religion was something Americans prided themselves in. Are you saying that is not correct?

wow... thank you for expressing yourself, you have provided a perfect example of what i have been talking about. It's a shame you can't see how blinded you are by your faith. No matter what logic i provide you'll find a way to tap dance through it and cherry pick your items to twist and distort to match your delusions of righteousness. Be well brother... i hope in time your mind and heart will be free to see more, know more and in turn be more... certainly this country desperately needs and deserves more.

As for confusing conservative with republican, let's get real and cut the crap shall we? This is an association based on more then just mine alone, true it's not 100% accurate but certainly not 100% inaccurate. I have repeatedly stated my case and isolated the group of conservatives who religiously vote republican. They pose a huge threat to our future... they have already proven how destructive their delusional ideologies are when applied to the real world. As i have pointed out, they have ruined the GOP and nearly wreaked the country while pushing us toward a WW3... over one supposed boogie man (member of wealthy family that has close ties to the bush family) who lives in a cave receiving dialysis.

Does anyone here still believe in the easter bunny and santa claus? anyone? if so please post in the mythological creatures and ufo sections of the forum... lol

reply to post by The All Seeing I

You haven't been able to refute one statement I made. All you do is throw accusations without one bit of logic. Good night, if you can't back up the ridiculous statements you made, you don't deserve further explanations.
Have a nice day.

It's not that i "haven't been able to refute one statement I made" i just choose not to, for every twisted slice and dice of what i have proposed you have attempted to lead the topic into a cul-de-sac. Your silly claim "All you do is throw accusations without one bit of logic" is just another example of living in bizarro world. Obviously your idea of logic is flipped and for you my idea of logic is flipped... so be it, we'll just have to disagree... good day to you too dear sir, good luck in your future attempts to derail perfectly sound threads, such as this one.

As for this notion of life before birth, where ever you stand on the issue... you can never ever permit there to be limits/restrictions on a women's right to choose. If you think otherwise, then you need to serious question your "logic". For those who vote pro-life, you are telling our government to intervene in women's lives in the most personal inappropriate way. The use of the word "murder" to describe such a decision is an infantile exaggeration of circumstances, not to mention insidiously manipulative/shaming and selfish. Take the bible-blinders off your melon, so you can see more then just what you have been told to see.

There are just some gray matters that you can't color black or white...
they are better left up to those who have the ultimate say, women...
who we should support in whatever decision they make.

If you were a true conservative then i shouldn't have to spell this out for you.

[edit on 16-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by The All Seeing I


Republicans pose a threat to our future? Hell, liberals and democrats haven't been right about the first single thing. The entire agenda for liberals and democrats is to continue shifting to the left, abandon any and all morality, condemn and belittle all moral base that this country was founded on, and seek more and more power by appealing to the ignorant who are too sorry to work for a living, by providing "benefits" in exchange for votes.

You want to get this country turned around, and fast? Drop corporate and individual income taxes to 15%. There will be more companies piling into the Unites States than we could imagine.

Consider LBJ's Great Society. Democrat President, Democrat Congress. Look at it good. Segregation was good, but not in the way it occurred.

Thanks to the liberal policies, the entire Black community was ruined. A sudden rush to have babies out of wedlock since they could go on welfare and get bigger checks, no fathers on the scene to provide stability and provide an example, and now we see the payoff.

Since no "whitey" was going to whip their children, discipline and good order went right down the crapper. Standards were lowered, affecting the overall education of the entire community of youth. So internationally, we are so far behind other industrial countries in math and science that we now have to import our engineers.

Crime and morals are beyond pitiful. Those kids are now adults, killing each other, drugs and gang related violence are rampant, and the blame can be laid right at the feet of "enlightened liberals." More generations of the same.

Good work!

Naw, I'm not coming back to this post, and you can reply any crap you like. You're as full of crap as a Christmas turkey, and you have as much real-world knowledge as I have about quantum physics.

And about that I don't know squat!

lol... ok... i'm starting to see a pattern here. A bipartisan knee jerk reaction. This whole us again them is a bit silly. Sure liberals/progressives are not without fault... but you have to admit they have done more good for the black community then bad. The negatives i see are due to individuals milking the system, more conditions/standards need to be put in place. As for drug and gang infested neighborhoods, this is an issue of neglect. Any time you have a segment of society ostracized and abandoned, decay is going to set in. Most of these families are barely getting by, most of which have generations going back to slavery with very little improvement in their standard of living and future prospects. Thanks to liberal/progressive programs many have found a way out of the ghettos and jails. As for the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" mentality... pretty hard to do, if not near impossible when you have no bootstraps to pull and/or don't even know that the bootstraps are there. More positive role models, incentives, assistance, understanding... are needed to bridge the gap.

The religious conservative mind and heart on such issues is very hands off in comparison... lots of talk but very little walk when it comes to helping others who have very different backgrounds from their own... they see the bible as the only way... that god will help those who help themselves.

Again for those who don't care to read the thread thoroughly before puking a post, the issue i am proposing is about distortion... the bible-thumping fundamentalists distorting the principles and agenda of the GOP... leaving true free-thinking conservatives no viable choice... but it's even more devastating then that, we have armies of church goers being drafted into political activism by their leaders/tv-evangelists/mega-church-preachers.

Here's a great documentary that covers what i have been referring to...
Jesus Camp
... this is part 1 of 9 parts, be sure to watch them all... it's very eye-opening.


[edit on 17-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

I would suggest to the Moderator of this forum , you might as well close it down. I dont see the OP here doing anything more but being hateful and trying to stir up anger. I see that a lot from the liberal camp these days. I must say, it has to be miserable being that unhappy all the time, that you have nothing better to do then to come on and ask a host of questions that are so vague you couldnt hope to answer, and then when someone offers to answer them if you will clarify what you are looking for, you respond by saying you dont have to do anything of the sort. Yup, just sounds to me like youre drumming up hate and discontent. Spew your drivel somewhere else, its a shame for as intelligent as you try to make yourself out to be, you could be putting it to better use, unless like your post, that too is laughable.

lol...sorry mask... i think you might be confusing this thread... with one of your own
Vulgar shirts worn by Obama supporters
...quite a contribution

and why are conservatives known to be censors?

HAH not in the least, just counter acting the stuff that you post all the time about McCain and other republican or conservative peoples.........actually i think probably people who just dont agree with you in general......

This has been a very interesting challenge... an attempt to open closed minds.

As i have stated earlier on in the thread the information to answer these clueless posts in response to my OP is readily available.

...and yet even after doing a little leg work to provide sources that i think do an excellent job of covering the topic at hand... still posts that show no one has taken the time to review the material.

What does this say about those who consider themselves conservatives?
Maybe that conservatives are closed-minded?
...and maybe due to having closed-minds their hearts are sheltered from the harsh realities of life... causing them to be hypersensitive?
May be this explains why they want to control and censor all who challenge their little utopian world?

...or could all of this be attributed to only those conservatives who have come under the spell of the Lord?

[edit on 17-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]

or could it be that they tried to answer your questions and you refused to open a dialog, seems to me you are the close minded one, after all you already have one closed thread by a moderator for antagonizing discontent.....seems like a pattern to me.....and im above that *click*

The Truth can be ugly, scary and unpleasant... you may call this "antagonizing", i call it eye opening. Some don't care to have their eyes opened, i understand that, but then why are such people here at ATS.

We have endless opportunities to learn something new here, why kill the messenger when you don't like what they have to say/share... why not spend time on a different thread that doesn't challenge your hard-held beliefs and preconceived notions?

This is not a place to be narrow-minded, or volunteer to be the thought-police... to bark/regurgitate your dogma... this is a place to think and reflect on new, unique, forward ways of looking at the world. In order to have an intelligent discussion about a subject as important and delicate as this one, you need to leave your blinders/assumptions/beliefs and ego/axe at the door.

I have proposed valid inquires and presenting many relevant and accurate sources of information on this topic, and in return i get a load of irrational aggressive defensive interrogative derailments. I suppose some closed-minds are rusted shut with hearts as fragile as cray paper.

[edit on 17-10-2008 by The All Seeing I]